Your advice to young adults.

[couplers 4,634]

My opinion was beginning to form that people are not monogamous and from the time of our sexual awakening we shouldn’t try to force ourselves into societal and religious constructs.  However, a number of recent posts have led me to question this.  Most people on this forum are older couples who married first, then entered the lifestyle, most quite successfully.  (I say “lifestyle” rather than “swinging” to include all forms of non-monogamy.)  Young single people/couples are not much of a presence here.  Those who have appeared aren’t here long-term (but maybe they get bored with this forum, not the lifestyle).  So I ask: What advice would you give to a young adult (or your former self, if you could) regarding the best approach to sexuality?

[Numex 2,412]

I disagree with the entire premise of the question.  I would not try to steer someone, especially a young someone, into any of these directions.  I would discuss all of them (as we plan to do with our daughter before she becomes sexually active) and let her know that choice is hers and hers alone.

 

Importantly, you don't have to choose a single path. A person can start down one path, like the one option proposed, seeking and being monogamous then swinging.   You can also go the other way, as many do, having a multiple-partner, non-monogamous life, then settling into a monogamous marriage.  Then maybe swinging again after a while.  Or not.

 

My two wives show this.  After only a few partners each (nothing wild), my first wife Betsy and I were monogamous for twenty years of marriage.  We had a great sex life, even during and after the divorce for a while.

 

My  wife now Daniela who is twenty-five years younger than me has had many partners of both sexes, overlapping lovers, married lovers, etc.  That is the life that she chose and it's worked out wonderfully.

 

We were monogamous for a short while, until I recognized that she missed the sexual variety and quantity that she used to have, so she played and I stayed monogamous.  Then she wanted me involved (MFM), then we did couples swaps, until now we are in a closed group of married couples.

 

My ex-wife knows that Daniela and I swing, and we three have talked about whether Betsy and I should have talked about it and explored when we were married. 

 

To summarize: yes, talk honestly about all of the possibilities, don't put one above the other, and tell him or her that your feelings and attitude will likely change, perhaps more than once.  Most importantly, be safe.  Not just the usual things, but also your emotions.  The first,  second, tenth person that you date and fuck may make you feel crazy, but be realistic. 

Edited May 28, 2023 by Numex

[let's do it again 414]

First, I am going to ask the young adults to have sex, and enjoy it. I have the understanding that many of our young adults are not participating in sex, especially young adult males. I have 3 adult kids and I hope their sex life has been as adventurous as mine. I wasn't looking to swing when I got started. However the young adults enjoy their sex, just have it.

[Billygoat 443]

I chose the fourth statement as I think it most describe the actual pathetic the majority of those young adults (as well as those of older adults her) as we mature and grow mentally, emotionally and physically til we reach that point that we connect with that someone we want to share our lives with.

 

The society limitations and “rules” imposed on us, globally, restricts but does not stop emotional and physical experimentation, it just goes under ground, a guarded secret.  But still happens in all age groups.

 

How wonderful would it be if just acceptance at all levels just is, was the norm.  But human behavior being what it is….”cheating” would still occur….sadly…..just cause.

 

But overall I think it would be a better world. 

[Fundamental Law 2,885]

The question surfaces more commonly than one might expect, albeit in an indirect form. The most common way that it comes to us is from one (or both) of a couple on the cusp of marriage. They have observed that we are still married to one another, still very much in love, are pretty public about displays of affection for each other. Some know that we take 'adult vacations' in the form of LS cruises.  But the question is pretty consistent: "You have known one another for 48 years, married for 41+. You are (among the) happiest couple(s) we know of any age. What did/do you do to make that happen?"  More to the point "How do we get what you've got?"

 

Our answer is quite consistent: we focus on shared values. Early in our relationship, we decided to focus on Honesty, Affection, Trust, Communication, and Honoring the other as an individual. (There's a mnemonic in the first letters.) Nothing in there about monogamy because monogamy is a behavior that emerges from values. And there is nothing in those values that prescribes this or that expression of sexuality. Monogamy may make sense at times in the relationship. Ethical non-monogamy may make sense at other times. What cannot be compromised, though, are those foundational values of being honest with ourselves and each other, keeping the communication wide open regardless of discomfort, and earning the trust to do the right thing for the relationship every day. 

 

We do not think it makes sense to be prescriptive about sexual expression. We do think it makes sense to explain and embrace the idea that a long-term relationship is a commitment to grow alongside another human being. Whether you grow with or grow apart from that other human being really depends on whether you share and hew to foundational values. Sexual desire --needs and wants--are going to change across the decades, and not always in the same direction or at the same rate. So will incomes, health, parental needs as they sicken and die, and so on. 

 

Our advice to young people and our former selves?

 

1. Never miss a chance to tell your partner how special they are to you, how much you value your shared life. 

2. Foreplay is 24 x 7 x 365

3. Commit to listening--really listening--to each other's needs/wants/desires. 

4. Helping each other realize their dreams and fantasies and finding happiness in their joy is a renewable source for positive relationship energy. 

[Numex 2,412]

2 hours ago, Fundamental Law said:

But the question is pretty consistent: "You have known one another for 48 years, married for 41+. You are (among the) happiest couple(s) we know of any age. What did/do you do to make that happen?"  More to the point "How do we get what you've got?"

For purposes of this thread the question remains, however - when did you two become non-monogamous?  Were you already committed to a life of non-monogamy before you met?  Was it later, but still early on, before you were married?  Was it during the early stages of marriage?  Or was it as empty nesters moving into a different stage of your lives?  Whenever it was, in retrospect, would you have done anything differently?

 

  

2 hours ago, Fundamental Law said:

Monogamy may make sense at times in the relationship.

For most couples, it's when they want to have a child.  Although for us it didn't preclude soft swinging, including Daniela performing and receiving oral.  Anal was out because the openings for the two passages are too close together.  She was back at full play after her pregnancy was confirmed.

 

 

Edited May 29, 2023 by Numex

[Fundamental Law 2,885]

19 hours ago, Numex said:

For purposes of this thread the question remains, however - when did you two become non-monogamous?  Were you already committed to a life of non-monogamy before you met?  Was it later, but still early on, before you were married?  Was it during the early stages of marriage?  Or was it as empty nesters moving into a different stage of your lives?  Whenever it was, in retrospect, would you have done anything differently?

 

  

 

 

Our journey was perhaps different than most. We were very much vanilla for the first decade and a half of our marriage. Work tensions were taking their toll; we decided to take a clothing-optional vacation. (Offspring remained home with grandma, of course. ) It was our first contact with foray into/contact with alternative lifestyles. It was an eye-opening experience. We showed up at Club Orient because we were frankly ambivalent and found ourselves among a couple of hundred naked people who were at once comfortable, joyful, and at peace with the world. They looked us in the eye when they spoke with us and although they sensed our awkwardness, they were completely non-judgmental. We shucked our suits within a few minutes and never looked back. So transformational and restorative was our experience that we booked a return trip before we left the property. 

 

While nudity and swinging are (obviously) not the same, both are alternative lifestyles, and both involve exchanging some (vanilla) social norms for alternatives. What mattered here is how that exchange made us feel -- about ourselves, about each other, about the rest of the world.  We would say that we had a need for that exchange and we felt that the exchange was the right thing for us at the time. That experience opened up the discussion of how much of our lives were governed by social norms and what exchanges we were interested in exploring.  Our point is that being born/raised in a vanilla environment often blurs the distinction between behaviors that are regulated by law and behaviors that are expected by convention.  "Right" and "wrong" is applied to both.  Exchanging vanilla norms for those of an alternative lifestyle requires suspension and reassignment of "right" and "wrong" to different specific behaviors. Our point is that there is always an exchange, it's never a simple change from wrong to right (or vice versa). 

 

We think different people --and different couples--are differently prepared to make those exchanges. We made the exchange because vanilla life was not getting us where we needed to be as a couple. Would we have been prepared to relinquish the "comfort and security" of vanilla life earlier in our relationship? Don't know, but we doubt it. 

[Numex 2,412]

On 5/30/2023 at 9:37 AM, Fundamental Law said:

we decided to take a clothing-optional vacation. ... and found ourselves among a couple of hundred naked people

It's interesting that although my wife and I are comfortable with casual sex, we never sought out or even considered nudity for its own sake. Daniela isn't an exhibitionist, but she will display part or all of her body upon request under the appropriate circumstances.

[Fundamental Law 2,885]

12 hours ago, Numex said:

It's interesting that although my wife and I are comfortable with casual sex, we never sought out or even considered nudity for its own sake. Daniela isn't an exhibitionist, but she will display part or all of her body upon request under the appropriate circumstances.

There is a Venn diagram of swingers and nudists.  Each is an alternative lifestyle, so it is unsurprising that there is some overlap ("intersection"). We observe that many/most clothing-optional resorts attract a fair number of swingers; that swinger cruises have clothing optional decks and days; and so on. The nice thing about alternative lifestyles is acceptance and tolerance; person A does not have to conform to person B to be accepted, couple C does not have to have the same set of usual behaviors as couple D to be engaging and interesting, etc. 

[couplers 4,634]

14 minutes ago, Fundamental Law said:

There is a Venn diagram of swingers and nudists.  Each is an alternative lifestyle, so it is unsurprising that there is some overlap

For me strangely, I'm in both parts of the diagram, but not the overlapping intersection.  I enjoy the non-monogamous sex of our poly family with occasional play outside, but the sex is arranged before the clothes come off.  I also go to nude spas and resorts when I'm in Europe.  I feel wonderful being totally naked with other people of all ages and types, enjoying the water, sauna, sauna, steamroom and massage.  Any sexuality is covert; I don't mind if someone wants to look at me.  I've talked to many people: women, men, couples.  None have been untoward.

 

Would I want to choose a sex partner in such a situation?  No, not really. 

[Fundamental Law 2,885]

4 minutes ago, couplers said:

  I feel wonderful being totally naked with other people of all ages and types, enjoying the water, sauna, sauna, steamroom and massage.  Any sexuality is covert; I don't mind if someone wants to look at me.  I've talked to many people: women, men, couples.  None have been untoward.

 

Would I want to choose a sex partner in such a situation?  No, not really. 

Simple social nudity is a great joy. We agree that it should be maintained distinct from sexual behaviors and enjoyed at all stages of life. It is, after all, the most natural state. Perhaps paradoxically, erotic play often involves costumes and concealment. We think that some bathing suits--especially those of minimal fabric and of fluorescent hue--are intended to attract the eye to genitalia and breasts and are intentionally more provocative than the natural state.

 

As for deciding that someone is sexually interesting, we  focus on the organ between the ears, encased in bone. 

[Numex 2,412]

6 hours ago, Fundamental Law said:

erotic play often involves costumes and concealment.

As an extreme example, a cartoon showed two Arab me walking past a naked woman.  The one says to the other, "I'd really like to see her in a tight burqa."