How do you communicate before unprotected play?

[ConfusedHubby 118]

This question is only for the couples that have played bare and isn't meant to drum up a lecture on safety.  Barebacking is polarizing and everyone's risk/reward is different, but the fact it is such a hot button for so many people makes me question what kind of communication people really have going into it.

 

I was reading a post on reddit which got me thinking about my OWN communication leading into bareback play in the lifestyle which makes me realize how insufficient it's been and something to be worked on going forward.  I mean, there has always been consent from our partners in the rarer time's we've engaged, but It's an awkward topic to broach...  Thinking back, our first couple bare experiences were explicitly planned (including exchanging tests) but since then we've just sort of fallen into it.

 

Our first time occurred when the wife of a married couple transitioned from giving a tremendous blow job to mounting raw when we'd never talked about condoms or boundaries.  Seeing the look of surprise on my face she offered up "you said you had a vasectomy right" and kept riding me.   

 

Another example was a time when we were using condoms with a couple we are friends with and whatever lube the female half had been using was literally disintegrating my condoms after a few minutes.   After changing it out maybe 3 times  we just took it off the tattered rubber and it's just been assumed by both of us we are going raw since.

 

Then there was a time when a long time play partner who I had *always* gloved with in the past was bent over in my bed as I rubbed her pussy with my dick, but avoided penetrating.   when she starts pushing back against me, working me inside of her and the suddenly we're raw with no prior discussion.  I start to ask "should I get a--" to which I get a "no" and we were off...

 

Another time during a swap, a very similar scenario to above happened as I was teasing the other female when she pushed back to take me inside.  We allowed ourselves to enjoy it a bit, but noting her SO is wearing a condom with my wife, I forced myself to pull out out and put on a raincoat as she playfully pouted. 

 

I haven't always been the passenger and will admit to an instance with a new couple where my condoms were 2 floors above us and the female half had been giving me head and without discussion, motioned her on top to mount me which she eagerly obliged.  

 

I've got several other examples, but you get the point---we LSers preach the importance of communication both within your core relationships and with others, but how do these situations really play out for you?  I wish I could say we've always sat down and round-tabled everything but it hasn't been the case.

 

 

[AdamGunn2 393]

We decided before we got into swinging that we would *always* use condoms. First for birth control - she was in the early stages of menopause at the time - and for prevention of STDs. We never forgot that rule. With one very regular couple, we decided to forego that rule, but we all trusted each other not to break our rule with other people. Those that would only play bareback with us (there were a few,) just didn't play with us. Period.

 

I'm not criticizing those who choose to play bareback, it's your life, literally. And if you start with that rule and then change it after sober talk in a non-sexual situation, that's cool. But, to me, just deciding in the heat of the moment to break the rule is a bit irresponsible. 

[Sophy 569]

Since the very beginning, we both agreed on the rule of always using condoms for penetration; it took us years (about four years) of bonding with another couple to start even considering the discussion of not using condoms with them. When I say bonding, I mean not only sexually but at a personal-friendship level.

The four of us discussed the option during sober moments and made the decision, and planned it accordingly, including an STD test for all. Later, perhaps a little more than a year later, we decided to include a mutual friend couple that we play regularly; the process was the same with them, but this time involving six of us. Since then, all six of us have agreed to get tested at least twice a year and share the results.

We have never regretted our decision, quite the opposite, we love our “exclusive group” and the deep intimacy we share with them.

 

[ConfusedHubby 118]

Super hot.  I love this approach-- very mature and responsible way to have incredible sexy times. 

 

Six for sex is an awesome number--especially with total freedom.

[Billygoat 443]

Like everything in the lifestyle it is a matter of choice, desire, preference etc etc.

 

As most everyone will agree it is totally a matter that needs…and must be discussed openly…honestly….and agreed upon by all without coaxing, influence, persuasion and the worst……pleading….begging….or just plain assumption or surprise/trickery.

 

Neither of us or our friends have ever resorted to this.  We all have had rare occasion with someone, mostly single/solo males who have tried but were denied……my experience with women has been it is expected the man would wear one.  This has been true for our decades of experience.

 

Now having said that I will now point out that we have a number of LS friends with benefits and we have been condomless for over 15 years.  No one offs or new one time only get togethers/meet ups at all for the same time period.  We are highly social within in our circle, vanilla friends mixing with our FWB and family regularly.  To the point of it’s just accepted life.  Intimacy with those FWB couples and singles, together, grouped or solo just happens, occasionally planned, occasionally it’s a booty call…the need for attention….just finishes as the woman wants.  
 

I will point out that most all of us in our circle are over 55…..most over 60 with a few, mostly single/solo ladies late 40s.  More then mature/experienced enough to decide for themselves….and not shy to ask for what they want…..even in the heat of the moment.  
 

I can also state, more to “confussedhubby” point, enjoyed being a safe “go to” for couples and single/solo women at our club (now closed as of last September) for the past several years looking for “fantasy/experiences” or just some adult enjoyment/pleasure and I would say honestly 80% of the time condomless but not always finishing in the woman, but always on her request, how and where she wanted (known before play started) and mutually agreed upon openly when a couple.  Surprisingly but pleasant my experience has been most of my single/solo female experiences preferred no condom and most preferred the final round to finish orally or inside her.  Even a few of those that were much younger. (I was known to be a safe, experience, trusted, V-safe playmate) 

 

Keep in mind our club was not an open door, open to the general public, no walk-ins, commercial operation.   And new attendees single/solo/couples that returned would see the same people attending on a regular (twice per month) basis.  So getting to know….really know people was the norm.
 

 

[Billygoat 443]

After reading my post I wanted to add that I was speaking about our personal experiences, our choice of play and our LS friends now and over the past 25 plus years in the LS.

 

I did not want people to think that the club as a whole promoted condomless sex.  It did not and provided free condoms and lube in each room and every play area.

 

And with most first time or hookups condoms were  always used.  If through more get togethers and over time getting to know one another and some form of verbal discussion/consent did condoms become optional.

[njbm 2,868]

Two sad things to report:

1. Contrary to my belief upon entering swinging, condoms are very ineffective against HPV and HSV. These STDs are much more common than VDs like syphillis, gonnorhea,etc.

 

2. We are over 65. Few if any of our friends were vaccinated for HPV due to our age (over 45). A large number of our female swinger partners have had hysterectomies due to persistent HPV infections. Call us spooked. 

[ExploringOptions 185]

Very quick talk. Before we met for the act we met twice, the second time we spoke openly. Both women are on birth control and none of us has had sex out of marriage. None of us has bought a condom in forever. 
Decided we don’t need. 
Going forward if when we play with more experienced active swingers it brings up the question of how we will deal with this question. 
HPV vaccines are common for us, forgot that many of you are older and never got vaccinated. 

[ChristianSwinging 59]

We see it this way: you can't rule out any risk in your life and in a select circle it's nearly riskless and simply most beautiful without condoms and we're happy to do without them.
You go about your search in the same way as when you're looking for every relationship partner and the ones we're considering cum inside her beautifully and without an overcoat.
She really enjoys this particularly natural and intense feeling.
We don't have any special communication, unless we have to specifically insist on a condom. But these men would usually not be an option for us.
In my opinion, the decision lies solely with the woman and no one else. 
My wife can decide absolutely for herself whether she wants a man blank or with protection, depending just on her needs and wishes.

It’s her body and her joy.

[njbm 2,868]

6 hours ago, ChristianSwinging said:

We see it this way: you can't rule out any risk in your life and in a select circle it's nearly riskless and simply most beautiful without condoms and we're happy to do without them.
You go about your search in the same way as when you're looking for every relationship partner and the ones we're considering cum inside her beautifully and without an overcoat.
She really enjoys this particularly natural and intense feeling.
We don't have any special communication, unless we have to specifically insist on a condom. But these men would usually not be an option for us.
In my opinion, the decision lies solely with the woman and no one else. 
My wife can decide absolutely for herself whether she wants a man blank or with protection, depending just on her needs and wishes.

It’s her body and her joy.

What about you, the male? Do you wear a condom? You also have to realize that your wife’s condom choices rebound to you. If she contracts something, it’s likely you will get it. We both wear condoms for disease  protection. To protect ourselves and to protect each other. We realize that they are of limited protection, but can’t hurt. 

[hunterdonNJcpl 1,383]

We'll show you ours if you show us yours. By that, I'm referring to a recent std panel. Otherwise we play with condoms.

[ChristianSwinging 59]

5 hours ago, njbm said:

What about you, the male? Do you wear a condom? You also have to realize that your wife’s condom choices rebound to you. If she contracts something, it’s likely you will get it. We both wear condoms for disease  protection. To protect ourselves and to protect each other. We realize that they are of limited protection, but can’t hurt. 

I can understand your concerns and your point of view and I think that very active swingers should always wear condoms.
When we were at a club together, men who had sex with my wife always wore a condom.
I honestly don't want to deny a few small exceptions.
I don't have to wear one because I've only been intimate with my wife so far.
We are not so afraid of illnesses as we no longer go to clubs at the moment, but rather prefer solid private relationships.
A good immune system is an important prerequisite.

After all, you can get infected with something anywhere in the premises of a club. There are enough intimate fluids and they are a natural part of it.
We have never required a man who has sex with us to be tested for a disease. This really destroys our desire for each other because we assume that he could infect us.

So far we have preferred to make a good, small selection and limit our contacts with whom we can enjoy it without a condom.

Your point of view is understandable, but I think it depends on the type and amount of contacts as to how seriously you have to take it.

[njbm 2,868]

We presume that the majority of people in our age group have or have had HPV or HSV. We further presume that condoms are of limited value against these STDs. HPV can cause cervical cancer. HSV is incurable.  Most people don’t disclose. You cannot figure it out from knowing someone, trusting someone, etc. They may not know they have it. We use condoms to give us a chance. We are also vaccinated against HPV. 

[ChristianSwinging 59]

21 minutes ago, njbm said:

We presume that the majority of people in our age group have or have had HPV or HSV. We further presume that condoms are of limited value against these STDs. HPV can cause cervical cancer. HSV is incurable.  Most people don’t disclose. You cannot figure it out from knowing someone, trusting someone, etc. They may not know they have it. We use condoms to give us a chance. We are also vaccinated against HPV. 

It sounds like we are all terminally ill and contagious.
Where is the joy in an open love, sex and partner swapping if you always think about the consequences?
Wouldn't it be better to leave this lifestyle altogether?

[njbm 2,868]

4 hours ago, ChristianSwinging said:

It sounds like we are all terminally ill and contagious.
Where is the joy in an open love, sex and partner swapping if you always think about the consequences?
Wouldn't it be better to leave this lifestyle altogether?

It is up to everyone to choose the level of risk that they will accept. Few people die from cervical cancer or pre-cancer, no one dies from HSV. But in our ten years in swinging, we’ve encountered many people who had adverse consequences from HPV and HSV. We wish we knew about that at the outset. We thought wearing a condom equaled safe sex. It doesn’t. But not wearing a condom is playing Russian roulette. With a lotta bullets in the chamber. We like to be realistic, as depressing as that may be. No free lunch. 

Edited February 9 by njbm

[lcmim 1,081]

The penis has only two ways to get or transmit an infection, that are unique to intercourse, through its only natural opening and dermally. 

 

Why then is so much attention and credit given to condoms. It is being treated like a talisman.

 

 Properly executed oral exposes far more opportunities for mucosal infection , both giving and receiving, eyes, nose, mouth. and a much larger surface area of large open pores. This totally ignores things like minor facial blemishes and razor irritation.

If a minor razor cut while prepping for a supposedly sterile knee surgery can postpone the surgery, why not oral sex/ If the possibility of accidental exposure is sharp enough to demand routine eye protection for the surgeon and even dental hygienist, why not goggles when having oral, where is almost a certainty of ending with a face or mouthful of another's fluids?

 

Yes, I know ,HIV  etc. I am not saying that there is no upside to condom usage.

What I am asking is the reason for almost totally ignoring the other ways  of exposure.

 

I suspicion that , at least for us older folks, the memory of abstinence and condoms being the only effective means of birth control plays a large part.

 

Please DO NOT see the above as in any way demeaning anyone's choices as far as safer sex is concerned. I would just feel better with a less magical approach.

 

[cplnluv1 871]

Not the smartest thing we never brought the subject up, only used protection if the others brought it up. A dumb thing not to discuss when meeting strangers I felt most newbies were “clean”. Too much trust or too naive. 

[AdamGunn2 393]

5 hours ago, ChristianSwinging said:

Where is the joy in an open love, sex and partner swapping if you always think about the consequences?
 

I would ask, "Where is the joy in *anything* if you ignore possible consequences?"

[24fun4u 8]

I would ask, "Where is the joy in *anything* if you ignore possible consequences?"

 

Then don't drive a car anywhere, you could get in an accident, or you might get hit and die, or suffer severe injuries. Unless, of course, you're willing to accept those possible consequences.

I'm not saying you should or shouldn't use condoms, but it is a choice to made between the involved parties. I love the one guy in our circle that insists on using condoms for intercourse, but is more then willing to shoot his load down my wife's throat, like "that's different."

[couplers 4,614]

9 hours ago, 24fun4u said:

I love the one guy in our circle that insists on using condoms for intercourse, but is more then willing to shoot his load down my wife's throat, like "that's different."

If pregnancy is the concern, it is different. 

[24fun4u 8]

We are all in our late 50's and early 60's. None of us our worried about getting pregnant or impregnating someone. It's just hypocrisy.

[AdamGunn2 393]

On 2/10/2024 at 12:12 AM, 24fun4u said:

I would ask, "Where is the joy in *anything* if you ignore possible consequences?"

 

Then don't drive a car anywhere, you could get in an accident, or you might get hit and die, or suffer severe injuries. Unless, of course, you're willing to accept those possible consequences.

I'm not saying you should or shouldn't use condoms, but it is a choice to made between the involved parties. I love the one guy in our circle that insists on using condoms for intercourse, but is more then willing to shoot his load down my wife's throat, like "that's different."

24fun, I didn't say don't do it, I said you should consider the ramifications. 

[ConfusedHubby 118]

On 6/14/2023 at 4:11 PM, ConfusedHubby said:

This question is only for the couples that have played bare and isn't meant to drum up a lecture on safety.  Barebacking is polarizing and everyone's risk/reward is different, but the fact it is such a hot button for so many people makes me question what kind of communication people really have going into it.

 

It amuses me that once the topic of bareback comes up, people lose all ability to stay on topic and instead project values on the merits of condom use.

 

The question behind this thread (for those who play bare) is how they bring it up with their play partners?  Is there overt communication or does it just kinda happen, as has been my experience.

[24fun4u 8]

24fun, I didn't say don't do it, I said you should consider the ramifications.

 

Fair, enough AdamGun. Perhaps had your comment been worded that way, I would have refrained from commenting at all.

 

Peace to you.

[njbm 2,868]

If we met through a website, the profiles usually say. If not, we discuss it before the action starts. 

I am not lecturing anyone on safety. Condoms are hit or miss for safety. I can’t say that if you use them, you are safe. Certainly, you are safer. 

But we have friends who play a lot and go bareback. If they haven’t contracted HPV or HSV, they are miracle workers. 

[Sunshine&Whiskey 15]

On 6/14/2023 at 4:11 PM, ConfusedHubby said:

This question is only for the couples that have played bare and isn't meant to drum up a lecture on safety.  Barebacking is polarizing and everyone's risk/reward is different, but the fact it is such a hot button for so many people makes me question what kind of communication people really have going into it.

 

I was reading a post on reddit which got me thinking about my OWN communication leading into bareback play in the lifestyle which makes me realize how insufficient it's been and something to be worked on going forward.  I mean, there has always been consent from our partners in the rarer time's we've engaged, but It's an awkward topic to broach...  Thinking back, our first couple bare experiences were explicitly planned (including exchanging tests) but since then we've just sort of fallen into it.

 

Our first time occurred when the wife of a married couple transitioned from giving a tremendous blow job to mounting raw when we'd never talked about condoms or boundaries.  Seeing the look of surprise on my face she offered up "you said you had a vasectomy right" and kept riding me.   

 

Another example was a time when we were using condoms with a couple we are friends with and whatever lube the female half had been using was literally disintegrating my condoms after a few minutes.   After changing it out maybe 3 times  we just took it off the tattered rubber and it's just been assumed by both of us we are going raw since.

 

Then there was a time when a long time play partner who I had *always* gloved with in the past was bent over in my bed as I rubbed her pussy with my dick, but avoided penetrating.   when she starts pushing back against me, working me inside of her and the suddenly we're raw with no prior discussion.  I start to ask "should I get a--" to which I get a "no" and we were off...

 

Another time during a swap, a very similar scenario to above happened as I was teasing the other female when she pushed back to take me inside.  We allowed ourselves to enjoy it a bit, but noting her SO is wearing a condom with my wife, I forced myself to pull out out and put on a raincoat as she playfully pouted. 

 

I haven't always been the passenger and will admit to an instance with a new couple where my condoms were 2 floors above us and the female half had been giving me head and without discussion, motioned her on top to mount me which she eagerly obliged.  

 

I've got several other examples, but you get the point---we LSers preach the importance of communication both within your core relationships and with others, but how do these situations really play out for you?  I wish I could say we've always sat down and round-tabled everything but it hasn't been the case.

 

 

It’s a bit of a hot button topic for my wife and I. I’m far more conservative than her with this in that the safety aspect outweighs the pleasure or the moment for me. My wife definitely takes the safety part into account. But she sees a very strong, fundamental, and spiritual connection between the direct skin to skin contact between people and a man ejaculating inside a woman no matter if it’s orally, vaginally, or anally. We had a recent weekend out of town and we agreed chance encounters have no flexibility. So much so we brought a a dozen or so random size and fit condoms for when the moment arose. In the moment though my wife was inclined and wanted to go no protection. I firmly believe the chances for that to happen would have been higher if we hadn’t had the talks we’ve had. At a minimum it would have distracted and occupied the moment. 
 

With that being said there’s exceptions. Our guy who has become a part of our life does not use protection. He’s a great friend of ours and we know 100% of his circumstance and daily life activities. We are all so close that we undoubtedly trust what is said amongst us. He understands he’s obligated to let us know if he’s with someone else and vice versa. We let him know about the activities of our out of towner, even though protection was used. It gets more slippery when not as close to another or a couple but we still predetermine our path through talking. For me it’s been overwhelmingly in favor of condom use. 
 

 

I think it should be an unrestricted conversation with your OH and who you play with. Life experience leading up to the moment is a big factor as well but I don’t see why it should inhibit a conversation, no matter how it’s started. I had a family member who died of AIDS in 2008. I’m not sure if that came from sex but it left a strong enough image in my life that it will override any carnal pleasure I have at the moment. On the other hand you have someone like my wife who prior to the beginning of our relationship and entrance into the LS acknowledged she never had a sexual partner use a condom. So here’s someone who in her estimation had upwards of 50 to 60 partners and never as much had a scare with an STD. The opposite ends of our life experiences show just how vital is it to discuss and not hold back.

 

[ConfusedHubby 118]

51 minutes ago, Sunshine&Whiskey said:

In the moment though my wife was inclined and wanted to go no protection. I firmly believe the chances for that to happen would have been higher if we hadn’t had the talks we’ve had. At a minimum it would have distracted and occupied the moment. 

 

Is what you're saying here that having stopped to discuss going without condoms would have killed the moment/lowered the probability of it actually being a go than had you not discussed and just went with it?

 

If so, this parallels our own experience.  It almost seems like a game of 'penetration chicken'--we all want it and we're moving towards it, so long as no one flinches or kills the moment trying to talk about it..   This is admittedly the opposite of how it probably *should* be, but it's definitely my experience and why I'm curious if there's a 'not so awkward way' that those of you who enjoy raw sex broach the topic in the heat of the moment.

[Sunshine&Whiskey 15]

8 hours ago, ConfusedHubby said:

Is what you're saying here that having stopped to discuss going without condoms would have killed the moment/lowered the probability of it actually being a go than had you not discussed and just went with it?

 

If so, this parallels our own experience.  It almost seems like a game of 'penetration chicken'--we all want it and we're moving towards it, so long as no one flinches or kills the moment trying to talk about it..   This is admittedly the opposite of how it probably *should* be, but it's definitely my experience and why I'm curious if there's a 'not so awkward way' that those of you who enjoy raw sex broach the topic in the heat of the moment.

For the most part yes. We’ve never had an issue where someone threw a tantrum over it so it’s not so much the night ending, but instead just throwing the mood of everyone into a different place.