Why swinging? Advice needed from men.

[deadp0et 5]

Dear all,

 

I am coming to you with an open mind to ask you for a suggestion.

 

please: I do not want to be judgemental. I want to understand your point of view to see if this world is for me. and if yes, at least you would have helped me!

 

my wife, sexually restrained for years since I know her, started to play with the idea of swinging following an abortion through a pill that flooded her with hormones. after this loss and due to the pill, she became really active. so she confessed me she would like to have some experience with other men, but shared together in a swinging setting. she said she would not be jealous, if I would fuck other girls. she has never been jealous. we have a good track record as a couple and I admire her for a lot of stuff.

 

Even if I understand that it can be naughty and fun, my mind cannot fully accept the idea yet: a lot of fears flooded me. from the excitement of it I went to consider the following: what is the exciting part of see your wife fucked from other men? don't you feel diminished as man? don't you feel this is a person who does not respect herself and her husband, at least not anymore?

 

I had a talk with a friend: a girl and a psychologist. this time she was convinced by the husband to try. she said she enjoyed it on the spot, then she lost the respect for her husband. she said that although she enjoyed the experience, deep down her she felt after that her men failed to protect her from other men. 

 

she is a psychologist infact and she advised me not to try swinging on request of wife, even if it seems fun, because she will lose respect for me. why? because you will let her fuck other men and therefore she will not see you as a man, but as a submissive slob. HER words, from HER life experience and being a psychologist.

 

what is your take? how did you deal with feelings of jealousy and that your wife can see you as less? why would you agree on such terms? how does it affected your marriage? what was the point of marriage once exclusivity was broken? don't you think that a wife propose this the moment you are not seen anymore as ENOUGH from her? enough leader?

 

and very importantly: did the lifestyle led to more respect from her side? a stronger couple?

 

deep down men are very territorial, but also women in fact. so I would love to hear more from you.

 

THANK YOU!

[reveur 60]

Bevor you start in lifestyle, they are following points to answer:

- Have you a strong and solid couple.

- The trust in the couple.

- Jealousy in the couple.

- To be able to make difference between sex and feeling. 

- To have rules for play and to respect it. 

-  No secret in the lifestyle. 

- ....

For to save your couple or to satisfy the desire from your partner if you aren't sure for your self,  don't do it.

Sorry English isn't my mother language. 

[Davdia 119]

 

If you haven’t fantasized about watching your wife having better sex than you can give her……..RUN

[deadp0et 5]

why should I run?

[deadp0et 5]

reveur, no problem for your English. I get your point and it is very useful. yes I do not feel sure about this step, even if we respect and trust each other. because the request came after a loss we had, and in a time where she is not satisfied in the bed completely. I don't feel sure even if I was never jealous of her, and she neither. but I guess this too big of a stop could make me jealous.

 

In sum, I do not believe the are the totally rock solid or right reasons to try. if everything was super well between us (no loss, sexual intimacy at its greatest), I guess I would probably be not so shocked....and perhaps more open?

 

I know I could detach from a threesome, I don't know if she could to do it given the situation. emotions are too high and I am afraid she will lose respect for me (i.e. the talk I had with my psychologist friend).

 

funny thing that she has always been very restrained about sex outside us. it is the first time ever I see her in this light. I avoided like plague promiscuous girls in a relationship, so it came quite a surprise. especially because I know her since so many years. yes, she had few body counts but where mostly boyfriends. she was never the type fucking random people on a rolling basis.

 

why am I not running from her? because she never betrayed me, did something behind my back, it has always been a mature and responsible person. and a lot of good things.

 

but as a man: I am just scared of this change of tune. and it is a pity: because under the right circumstances that could be perhaps a good experience.

 

or maybe I am just too dominant to see my wife touched from another man?

 

all in all, that is why I came here for enlightenment.

[Billygoat 443]

There really isn’t a recipe or checklist to qualify.  For those who enter the Lifestyle there are all sorts of variations on how and why.  But there are general guidelines that can help and I’m sure you will hear of many from many different people here.  I would also suggest reviewing the forums here and reading those that may apply to you.

 

From our perspective, experience (nudist, swinger, LS party/event organizer, poly couple) we have advised a number of new couples and singles over the years.  We have also observed and counsel a few that had some difficulty somewhere during their journey. 
 

A few things to keep in mind:

 

1. The two of you are the most important, to yourself and to each other, never sacrifice any part of yourselves or each other, for any reason.

2. Communication, truthful, open, no judgement, everything on the table bare your souls to each other communication.

3. This is an adventure, a journey not a destination, not a checklist to follow, not a sacrifice, not a tit for tat and the only obligation you have is to each other.

4. Communication, open honest truthful to each other.

5. Variations in the Lifestyle vary greatly from those who only attend Parties/events/locations but are only intimate/sexual with each other to highly active DTF solo/separate fantasy participants and everything in between.

6. Communication, with depth, trust, expectations concerns.

 

I mentioned communication three times for a reason.  You would be surprised how many couples, many years married think the communicate, but actually avoid honest open communication thinking they are sparing the spouse.  If the two of you can’t talk with each other about anything/everything, details, likes/dislikes, wants, desires, needs…..then I would make that your first step into the lifestyle.

 

Be adventurous with each other now…..not just sex but out and about.  Meet and talk to other people, be engaging.

 

 

[NC_Seniors 518]

11 hours ago, deadp0et said:

… the request came after a loss we had, and in a time where she is not satisfied in the bed completely. In sum, I do not believe the are the totally rock solid or right reasons to try. if everything was super well between us (no loss, sexual intimacy at its greatest), I guess I would probably be not so shocked....and perhaps more open?.

First, I’ve NEVER felt diminished as a man to see my wife getting intense sexual pleasure from another man because I love her so much that I want her to have that. (Besides, when she’s doing that, I’m busy getting my own pleasure from another woman! 😉) In fact, I just recently suggested that we try a 3some with another male because I want her to experience what it is to have two men there to give her pleasure and for her to give pleasure to. Does that make me less of a man? I know that when it’s all over, she’s going home WITH ME! 

   

Second, if your wife gets sexual pleasure from another man, what is there to protect her from? You need to protect her from being choked during rough sex … or having another man try to force her to have anal sex against her will … or having her new partner try to fuck her without a condom … or … Do you get the picture? But as long as she’s in her comfort zone and enjoying herself, there’s no need to protect her from anything. Just be there IN CASE she needs you and if she doesn’t, then you should both enjoy the partner that you’re with.

  

Finally, you just gave the best reason you could have given for NOT swinging right now … that things aren’t “rock solid” between the two of you. There’s a well-known principle in The Lifestyle that it magnifies whatever the state of your relationship is. If it’s strong, swinging will make it even stronger because you’re both giving something hot and exciting to each other without any regrets. If it’s weak, swinging will make it weaker because jealousy and anger will creep in, adding to the problems you already have. If your relationship isn’t where it should be, it’s less likely that your wife see you as not a real man who should protect her than that she’ll see you as someone who really enjoys fucking other women. So yes, this sounds like a bad idea right now … but not for the reasons you think it is.

[lcmim 1,081]

You ask why you should run .

This is in reference to this. "If you haven’t fantasized about watching your wife having better sex than you can give her……..RUN." ?

 

What I believe was intended is that if you haven't an established internal DESIRE to see this, then you are perhaps treading on dangerous ground.

 

Sooner or later someone will come along that, for one reason or another, trips her trigger more intensely than you do. Probably not more than once or a few times, until the NRE wheres off.

[deadp0et 5]

thank you all, really! and thanks for the concept of the magnifing lens: it is really clear and makes a lot of sense.

 

lcmim: I have a follow up question, if you would be so kind. why somebody would have this desire of seeing her wife with another man, particularly dominant men (and knowing that male are territorial by nature)? I am just curious here, as myself sometimes I picture the idea in my mind of doing a MFM although not as an established desire. it is more like 25% I am up for it and really aroused, and 75% of second guesses (feeling diminished, fear of loss, etc).

and also how did you deal with the situation when somebody triggered her more than you?

 

 

and all in all, question for all, how do you deal with STD? if everybody in the lifestyle is doing this, the possibility to catch something - even condom protected - is tenfold. at least that is what I know from personal research.

 

again, thank you!

 

 

 

 

[lcmim 1,081]

How did I deal??

First, she loses it with me on a regular basis so sexually we are not looking for anything or anyone to fill in something that is missing.

Second, I really like listening to her enjoy, whether it is with me or someone else.

Third, the "payback"for me is always far more than adequate.. The better the time she has , the more she gives back to me .

Fourth, the freedom that I give to her, she gives to me also.

 

I have never felt that I would "lose" her to someone else. This only drives us closer. She values the freedom of not having to worry if this will impact me negatively.

I have never considered being possessive as being a positive trait in myself. I think of both as weaknesses, for me.

 

AS to the STD thing: Yes it is a potential problem.

We accept the possibility , and get tested regularly. On the theory of whatever the one of us might have the other will also, we alternate tests rather than both going in at the same time. We just use our regular Doctor.

 

We try and be the best judge of character we can in those we play with. Realize that character does NOT have anything to do with having an STD. Someone with a decent character will, however, be being tested and will be honest about the results.

 

We have never demanded an up to date hard copy of test results. That, we feel, would not substantially reduce the risks.   If we were playing out in the wild that would be a consideration.

 

[lcmim 1,081]

I also want to support the idea of the magnifying lens.

If , when you are being honest with yourself you see negatives lurking on this topic, then it is time to back off until those things are straightened out.

[Davdia 119]

On 10/28/2023 at 8:29 AM, deadp0et said:

why should I run?

Because you can’t unsee your spouse enjoying another man more than she does you.

To her he will be new an exciting and you will see that. If you’re not ready, it can instantly destroy your marriage.  You said you’re 25% on board and 75% not sure…………..you need to Run like hell!     Would you gamble your wife on an any other wager that you have a 75% chance of losing her.  If you can honestly say that you would be able to watch another man take care of your wife while you’re unable to get it up, you might be ok……this can and does happen.

Most guys dream best case scenario and never imagine what can happen if it goes down wrong.  This isn’t for everyone. Tread lightly 

[Numex 2,409]

1 hour ago, Davdia said:

you can’t unsee your spouse enjoying another man more than she does you.

Very true, but on the other hand, for me that is a positive. I am happy when my wife can has a new sexual high. Sharing our experiences is a joy for both of us.

 

If that is not your mindset, you should indeed run.

[PeterJ 940]

1 hour ago, Davdia said:

Because you can’t unsee your spouse enjoying another man more than she does you.

More than 40 years later I can’t unsee my first wife bringing one of our friends to orgasm with a skilled handjob. And I’m so glad. I have many warm memories of our decade-long marriage, but that’s one of the hottest ones.

 

Regrets? Well, for one, that I didn’t get a chance to watch her fuck our next-door neighbor. (By the time she told me about it their little fling was over.)

[Numex 2,409]

I agree with all those above who say that if you won't actually enjoy and be happy that your wife, the love of your life, is enjoying great sex with other men, you are not ready.

[deadp0et 5]

thank you guys,

 

you are opening me up my mind. I was still guided by the fact of what my friend, the psychologist, told me. that she was convinced by her husband, she enjoyed it and then she lost respect for him as she "failed to protect her from other men".

 

the thing is that she gave me her professional point of view: that if I agree to an MFM, my wife will lose respect for me.

 

so you can imagine to hear this point of view from a female and a psychologist. also my personal regular psychologist told me that the couple cannot survive without exclusivity.

 

but it seems like it is not like that, from all of your experiences here. thanks for sharing with me.

 

you are very kind!

 

[couplers 4,614]

1 hour ago, deadp0et said:

if I agree to an MFM, my wife will lose respect for me.

 

1 hour ago, deadp0et said:

"failed to protect her from other men"

Frankly, that's crazy.  My husband allowing me to take a boyfriend and eventually having MFMs with him is one of the greatest gifts he has ever given me.

 

I having sex with other men isn't forced on me, it's something that I want and enjoy.  I respect my husband all the more for the fact that he is mature enough and loving enough to not only accept, but also be genuinely happy that I get fulfillment from my relationships with other men and women. 

 

 

 

Edited October 30, 2023 by couplers

[lcmim 1,081]

Professional opinion or personal experience and personal prediction?

 

 I have no doubt that her account is accurate, and keeping in mind that things can go sideways is a good thing to do. 

 

 People are all different as are their reactions. 

Remember she was "talked into it". She clearly was not ready for it, possibly never wired for it in the first place.

 

There are no guarantees, that is why the advice here is always to tread carefully and proceed at the rate of the slowest person.

[deadp0et 5]

lcmim,

 

I think she was in good faith in trying to give me a professional advice. However, I believe unconsciously she was also influenced by her personal experience, as swinging represented the beginning of the end of her marriage.

 

Also, I believe that even psychologists if not exposed or specialised in certain topics they don't have answers to all the questions. it is like with doctors: a cardiologist might have a sense but certainly not being an expert on dermatological issues.

 

Therefore that is why your inputs here are so valuable to me: because you walked through the experience yourself, learning something from it.

 

Still, even if I am getting less resistant about the idea of it: I think STIs and STDs represent an issue. therefore , besides testing and condom, I am curious to hear what are measures you took to play safe and with peace of mind. Playing with diseases is like playing with fire, and we are responsible for ourselves but also for our children. And I assume from your answers, you are all very responsible people. at least that is what I get from listening to you guys here.

 

[lcmim 1,081]

STD there is no truly, absolutely safe path. Same applies in other areas.

 

LS you play the game you take the risks

Football you play the game you take the risks.

Soccer you play the game you take the risks.

Golf you play the game you take the risks.

Career choice you play the game you take the risks.

Marriage you play the game you take the risks.

...

At any given point you can decide not to pursue whatever "risky" activity you might be thinking about doing.

 

When you were dating where was your comfort level? At what point was fluid exchange  something that you were willing to risk?

 

The same thought process applies here.

 

[Davdia 119]

One final thought, if you do decide to go through with this I would suggest you contact a male provider.

I’m sure lots of people here won’t agree with me however, if you do use a prostitute, it has some benefits.

First, he won’t likely have problems getting it up, so your wife will enjoy herself.

Secondly , he’s not likely to have feelings for her, so there’s little chance of an affair.

Thirdly, this will be truly a no strings attached situation, and other words if it goes south, you don’t ever have to look back at him again.

Then, if you make it through this OK, and you’re both up for another adventure then it’s time to start looking for somebody more repeatable.

I personally think one of the biggest mistakes is starting with someone that you both have ties to. 
Regardless of what some here will tell you, there are a lot of people on this site that are a lot more likely to have STDs than some of the prostitutes out there. If you’re not cheap, you can get a good reputable person with health documentation.

[PeterJ 940]

3 hours ago, lcmim said:

STD there is no truly, absolutely safe path. Same applies in other areas.

i

…Golf you play the game you take the risks...

 

At any given point you can decide not to pursue whatever "risky" activity you might be thinking about doing.

 

lcmim, your point is well taken. Going through life prudent people routinely make the best rough risk assessments they can and decide if the prospective rewards warrant assumption of the associated risks. It can be as mundane as the decision to J-walk to save 30 seconds getting to a store on the other side of the street. Or as consequential as deciding on a marital partner. 
 

I’ve reaped the benefits of good risk assumption judgments and paid the price for poor ones. 
 

But here’s my question (not really a serious one), what are the risks of playing golf? Hit by lightning? Drowned in a water hazard? Hit in the head by an arrant slice or hook? Make a bet you can’t afford to pay? For a half dozen years in my professional career I had substantial dealings with the PGA Tour. For the guys grinding on the development there are financial and lifestyle risks, but for the players whose Tour cards are secure the biggest risk is taking a tough shot that might yield an eagle if they make it or a bogey if they fail. 😉😂

[deadp0et 5]

lcmim, fluid exchange only with girls that were at the opposite of the swinging mentality: usually girls that still believe in having few body counts as possible. basically girls you have to date and court hard before they can let you in their bed. I don't know in US, but in Europe you can still find this type of girls. Now... in southern Europe not so much anymore: as the 4th wave feminism is starting to contaminate people there ad well, but in eastern Europe still you can find some gems like this.

If I dated even moderately promiscuous, I would put some higher security levels in place.

Regardless of security level 100pc of times however, always with condom. IMHO only crazy people do raw with strangers or people they know superficially.

 

davdia, spot on and I thought about the same! I read a research that escort have lower STDs than swingers. it was on a scientific journal. I don't know if the study was severely limited or not. but definitely this is a top notch suggestion!

 

peterj, I am afraid I am not following you. what is the message? thanks.

[Numex 2,409]

With testing and playing within a closed group, risks can be minimized.  

[enhancer 1,584]

First of all I don’t think someone suddenly having a higher sex drive would mean they suddenly want to have sex with other people!  Unless their partner was not able to keep up or provide the excitement needed.  I doubt that is the reason she is suggesting it.  More than likely she just desires someone different to experiment.  That is a natural thing for some and not so much for others.  
 

There are many reasons people enjoy watching their spouse with other people and those reasons are going to vary from person to person.  If you can’t find any reasons why you yourself would enjoy it then I don’t think you should.  No one is going to change who you are and how you see things.  Live your life how it works for you best.  
 

As for your wife wanting to try this you just have to be honest and say it doesn’t work for you.  She can either accept that and try to find the spice she wants at home with you or decide to move on.  Fucking other people should never be an expected requirement in a relationship unless both people are aware of that right from the get go.

[bbarnsworth 2,637]

On 10/30/2023 at 2:12 PM, deadp0et said:

also my personal regular psychologist told me that the couple cannot survive without exclusivity.

 

deadpoet, I'm jumping in late here but I wanted to comment on a couple of things.

 

This first one above is very wrong. My wife and I began swinging 15 years ago. We're not as active as we used to be, but we still do. Our marriage was very strong before we got into swinging, and remains very strong now. There are many swingers here on this forum, some of whom have responded to this thread, who have similar experiences. There are hundreds of thousands of swingers in the world today, if not millions who will tell you what your regular psychologist told you is wrong.

Can swinging destroy a marriage? Absolutely. There's no question about that. It can ruin a marriage. Read this thread from last year on this forum. It's an eye opening experience on how things could go wrong.

https://www.swingersboard.com/forums/topic/82344-we-tried-swinging-and-it-did-not-go-well-my-husband-has-become-withdrawn/

We're not going to tell you that swinging is great, works for everyone, and it's the best thing ever. For some people that's true. For some it's not. Only you and your wife can evaluate that. We will be very happy to answer questions you have, and provide insight with our own experiences and offer some perspective. We can't tell you if it will go well for you or not.

 

But, I can tell you your psychologist is wrong.

 

  

On 10/30/2023 at 2:12 PM, deadp0et said:

I think STIs and STDs represent an issue. therefore , besides testing and condom, I am curious to hear what are measures you took to play safe and with peace of mind. Playing with diseases is like playing with fire, and we are responsible for ourselves but also for our children. And I assume from your answers, you are all very responsible people. at least that is what I get from listening to you guys here.

 

Yes, disease is a real threat. As you noted in one of your posts, even with a condom you can contract a disease. It's true. As with everything in life, there's determinations to be made about risk vs. benefit. Did you know the handle of a grocery cart at a grocery store is one of the most diseased covered things you will normally encounter? Think of all the hands that have touched that handle just in the 24 hours before you touched it. Think of all the children who have been exposed to all sorts of things who have touched that handle, the parents, the workers. The handles are covered in potential diseases. Yet, most of us never think twice about grabbing the handle of a grocery cart. We just do it.

 

This isn't to say you should be cavalier about STDs in swinging. Due caution is needed. You can ask for a recent STD screening from the man or couple you intend on playing with. That might reduce the number of people who would play with you, but you can ask.

 

For our parts, my wife and I have always used condoms with our play partners unless they've become regular play partners. Such partners are people we regularly have sex with and have agreed to be exclusive with us and if they aren't that they will tell us. This doesn't happen right away, but after several play dates. For example, my wife has had two boyfriends in the past with whom she didn't use condoms. Both men were exclusive to her, and she played with both of them for years, probably having sex with both of them more than 50 times, maybe more than a hundred. We've periodically tested ourselves for STDs and have never had a problem. I'm currently having regular play dates with a wonderful woman who is exclusive to me. We've not used condoms for quite a while now, and it's great.

 

Also, I wanted to note about circumstances in your marriage right now. You've just gone through an abortion and your wife is affected by hormones. I would NOT make any rash decisions. I would take time to make this decision. Let the hormones wash out of her over time, and let the two of you get past this period of time before making any decisions. Considering swinging might seem very sexy right now while in bed. If in a month you can talk about swinging over coffee in the morning and it still interests both of you, it's a potential indicator that it might be something to pursue.

 

My wife and I first ventured into swinging via MFMs. She had sex with a number of men in MFMs in our first couple of years. My wife never lost respect for me, and never felt like I wasn't defending her. For my part, I love the MFMs. I've never been able to explain why, but I thoroughly enjoy watching my wife have sex with other men.

 

As for feeling inadequate or troubled because some man having sex with your wife is able to arouse her in a different way than you? That's kind of the point of swinging; she's getting to experience something different. I am happy when my wife reacts well to other men. It means she's having a great time! If there is something in particular he does that really gets her going, I want to know what it is so I can do it with her too.

 

Keep asking us questions, and let us know how it goes!