There cannot be true love and commitment without exclusivity?

[deadp0et 5]

***disclaimer: I am asking this because I am confused and would like your kind guidance.***

 

Dear all,

 

I have been consulting a psychologist lately, following my wife trying to bring me in the swinging world. I did feel curious about it, but also very scared. She insisted, but I did not consent as I was not 100% on the same page. I felt dragged, and that created me some bad memories and a small trauma: how a person that always loved you can be so insisting in trying to drag you if you are so scared? and that came after we had a loss in our family, so in a very bad timing.

 

anyway,

long story short: my psychologist, a quite famous one, told me that for a couple to be truly functional and to work in the long term the sex must remain exclusive. he said it is like a special gift, not to be spread around. a way to build intimacy and connection in a special way. As any other gift, it cannot be taken back and given to everyone. this of course true for everyone in the couple.

 

Now, I know this person is not judgemental: he is very warm and caring, and he has a vast preparation crossing different fields.

 

BUT, I found so many kind people in this website suggesting me that it is not necessarily like that.

 

so I have a question for people with years of marriage before starting swinging: have you been swinging many years? does the fact of giving up the sex exclusivity made you less strong? if not, how did you navigated the loss of this exclusivity? and because you are experiencing others, how you made sure not to bring home STDs? 

 

and last but not least, has this created you mental health problems and/or substance addiction?

 

I was not shocked by my wife proposal, but rather than the fact that she pressured me when I was clearly not ready. why did not I leave her? because there is so much in our marriage and she acted always honestly with me.

[AdamGunn2 392]

19 minutes ago, deadp0et said:

so I have a question for people with years of marriage before starting swinging: have you been swinging many years? does the fact of giving up the sex exclusivity made you less strong? if not, how did you navigated the loss of this exclusivity? and because you are experiencing others, how you made sure not to bring home STDs? 

 

and last but not least, has this created you mental health problems and/or substance addiction?

We entered into ENM after twenty years of monogamy. We talked about our sex life (experiences previous to marriage, where we would like to go,) for three years before we finally decided to get into sex with other couples (and eventually, singles.) By the time we got around to it, we'd considered everything.

 

As a result, we had a smooth and pleasurable introduction to the Lifestyle, and neither of us was surprised, disappointed or concerned with what we were doing.

 

Specifically, we decided that we'd both been active with others before our marriage, so the idea of being non-exclusive wasn't a big deal to us.  Our marriage remained strong all through our Lifestyle journey (nearly twenty years,) and we had no physical or mental problems. We made a decision to use condoms for all penis in vagina activity; we felt the risk of catching something from oral was low enough to be acceptable to us. We never caught anything.

 

I believe that non-monogamy is not risky to a committed couple as long as they have talked it through and have good communications skills. When something goes awry, the couple must talk it out and agree to go with the most cautious viewpoint. It worked for us. 

[deadp0et 5]

Adam,

 

you don't know how much your testimonial means to me. thank you!

 

if only my wife had been patient, instead of pressuring me to such high heights... 😕

 

thank you again 

[lcmim 1,081]

I am a bit confused. The psychologist in your first round was a woman.

In this round it is a man.

I am to assume that you are being advised by two psychologists then?

 

For what it is worth married happily for 40 playing for about 10, no difficulties related in any way to the LS.

 

You seem deeply unsure about several things. It does not sound to me like this is a path you should follow at this point. If you did not consent, then I might suggest that neither is your wife.  

She should have known better than to drag you along. If you had pushed her against her readiness I would tell her the same thing. Either way it  is playing with fire.

[deadp0et 5]

lcmim,

 

let me clarify.

 

my psychologist is a man. the other one, woman psychologist, is a friend of mine whom I confessed my trouble: and she gave me, in between, her "professional" point of view. but she is a friend, so of course it was a friend talk and not a paid session.

[deadp0et 5]

she pressured me, but in the end I gave her clear message: that I won't be dragged to even try unless I feel good. she respected that, and most importantly she did not go on her own. 

 

she has been always a good partner, so I am not sure why she went risking everything by pressuring me. but this is of course a talk I am doing with my psychologist, who made me reflect.

 

I still respect her despite this, as other times I really was in need she was there for me. I could count on her.

 

 

[NC_Seniors 518]

I’ve read every word in both of your posts as well as all of the replies. All of your questions — and the answers you’ve received — matter *only* if you’re considering swinging with your wife … which it sounds like you’re NOT! And since (you say) you’ve already told your wife “no”, that should be the end of it.

[lovefest04 697]

10 hours ago, deadp0et said:

psychologist, a quite famous one, told me that for a couple to be truly functional and to work in the long term the sex must remain exclusive. he said it is like a special gift, not to be spread around. a way to build intimacy and connection in a special way.

I completed a long a I dare say scathing response to this. Then the internet crashed and I lost it. So, I'll summarize.

 

1. The fact that your psychologist is FAMOUS means nothing. Get over it. It says nothing about his ability or his advise. Telling us that only serves you in putting him on a pedestal where you can belittle the "un-famous' advice you receive here.

 

2. There are many swingers that see sharing there partner as the ultimate form of intimacy. A gift if you will. IN fact, many would say that their relationship benefits from the sharing.

 

3. Exclusive is a control thing, not a giving thing, especially if it is one way. IE you are telling your wife she must remain exclusive or ......  It is simply an agreement, but that doesn't mean that when couple decide not to be exclusive they can't build intimacy or connection is a special way.

 

4. As I sit here in my 44th year of bliss with my high school sweetheart, I can tell you that our intimacy and connection is as strong as ever. Swinging is just another part to our adventurous and committed relationship.

 

Now your psychologist may know you better than I. He may know that you are not open to, prepared for or interested in sharing your wife, but to draw broad generalizations is just wrong.

 

What I'd want in a psychologist is an open minded individual (famous or not) that would help you explore your feelings around her request, help you to articulate them without judgement and help you and your wife explore, together, without judgement or wrath why she might want to swing and how that might work or not work for you both.

 

[deadp0et 5]

I don't belittle anyone Sir, I came here precisely because I VALUE the feedback of people that went first hand through the experience and because I know that no psychologist might have the universal Truth. hence I really appreciate your advices, and also the courage you demonstrate in being so open with each other.

 

you can say that is the contrary: that I admire you for your openness to each other.

 

also, if you read my post, you see that I am thanking everybody for helping me here.

 

therefore if I offended you, that was absolutely not my intention.

 

 

[couplers 4,614]

6 hours ago, lovefest04 said:

sharing there [their] partner as the ultimate form of intimacy. A gift if you will.

That is the way I see it.  My husband allowing me to have sex with other men is a demonstration of his love for me.  At first (for two years), I was incapable of doing the same for him, but now that I have done so, I realized that it is also a gift to myself. 

 

Humans are not monogamous.  Once married couples accept that, life is much better. 

[GoldCoCouple 4,065]

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so I have a question for people with years of marriage before starting swinging: have you been swinging many years?

Yes, more than 10-12 years

 

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does the fact of giving up the sex exclusivity made you less strong?

Absolutely not. In fact, it is the opposite...we are stronger because of it. Refer to our signature below.

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if not, how did you navigated the loss of this exclusivity?

Because swinging is something that we do TOGETHER. While some do it without their partners, we choose to do it as a group activity. Because of this, there is no loss of exclusivity.

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and because you are experiencing others, how you made sure not to bring home STDs? 

Safe sex (condoms are required) and testing before starting with a new couple.

 

Now to add some other thoughts. Please keep in mind that this is just our opinion and doesn't mean what we think is the greater 'right' or 'wrong'. You must decide what is right or wrong based on your own experiences and beliefs.

 

First, a psychologist, and that is ALL psychologists, are just offering a personal opinion. Psychology is not an exact science and they usually are just offering 'general' advice that is (all too often) colored by their personal beliefs.

 

Second: To be a successful swinger, a couple MUST have an abundance of love, trust and communication. It must be all three and all three need to be in abundance. This is what minimizes and/or eliminates the jealousy and other 'harmful' feelings that can cause damage to the relationship.

 

Third: Swinging is NOT for everyone...in fact, quite the opposite. Most people have been taught that non-monogamy is BAD and should not be allowed (not saying if this is right or wrong). It can be hard, if not impossible to overcome  this training. There's nothing wrong with this, it is just the way it is. Successful swingers are a small portion of the population (usually stated at 2-5%).

 

Forth: Swinging IS NOT CHEATING. Swinging is something that you do with your partners full knowledge and support. Cheating is done in secret without your partners knowledge and usually involves lying and deceit. We think of swinging as being a team sport, something we do together. We both get enjoyment out of seeing our partner getting enjoyment.

 

Finally: We also strongly believe that while swinging is something we do together, if either of us were to have doubts or wanted to stop swinging, we both would stop...without any questions (although if the communication is great, there wouldn't be any reason to ask questions since it would have already been explained). If both partners are not enjoying swinging, then there is no reason to continue. Remember, we get enjoyment out of seeing our partner getting enjoyment. If they aren't enjoying it any longer, there is no reason to continue.

 

That your partner is "insist{ing}, but I did not consent as I was not 100% on the same page." is a red flag. Just like if your partner insisted you do anything that you aren't on board with...it will lead to greater problems in the relationship. Their wants are being placed ahead of yours without concern to your thoughts or beliefs. "I did feel curious about it, but also very scared", "I felt dragged, and that created me some bad memories and a small trauma: how a person that always loved you can be so insisting in trying to drag you if you are so scared?"...once again, it is the strong trust that helps eliminate the fear. It is the love that lets you put your partners feelings ahead of your own. It is the communication that reinforces the love and trust.

 

You are not ready...and may not ever be. She is putting her desires ahead of your comfort and well being. Even if you were willing to go ahead with this, it most likely won't end well. You need to work on improving your trust/communication/love with her, but that doesn't mean you will ever be ready it swing. She needs to understand your position and take your feelings into consideration (would she really want to make you do something knowing that you hate it and are suffering the entire time...?), otherwise the rust will most likely continue to erode your relationship.

 

We wish you both the best and look forward to your responses...

[deadp0et 5]

thank you Sir,

 

overall I would say it is one of the best person I have ever met in terms of honesty and commitment. and I was not perfect either as a partner.

 

in the end I made clear I will never try swinging. it is not true of course, but I had to say this to end a discussion that was becoming too long. it is a pity because if we had been on the same page, it is something I would probably have tried.

 

we went to couple therapy and that helped. nowadays the discussion is closed but of course some pain always remain.

 

I must say however she has been committed to therapy and she suffered as well from our clashes.

 

also myself, in the past, I made my mistakes with her. so I cannot condemn her.

 

I like to believe we are all human and imperfect in the end. thanks for giving your point of view and not judging.

 

 

[discreetplay 235]

Curious Mr deadp0et, how long have you been married?

 

You state  "I felt dragged, and that created me some bad memories and a small trauma". I'm confused, did you two try swinging? Her suggesting (sorry, 'pressuring') "created me some bad memories and a small trauma"?  That statement opens up many questions for me. It sounds, not to be harsh, but very immature/childish. How do you define "pressuring"? How did it create bad memories and what is a "small trauma"?

 

I would love to hear your wife's perspective.

[couplers 4,614]

18 hours ago, GoldCoCouple said:

 

Third: Swinging is NOT for everyone...in fact, quite the opposite. Most people have been taught that non-monogamy is BAD and should not be allowed

I beg to differ, or at least make a distinction.  Humans are not wired to be monogamous.  After growing up with years of social and religious conditioning, however, we come to believe that monogamy is the only way for us to conduct our sex lives. 

What is true is that humans become jealous.  The “monogamy conditioning” that we get plays on this to control people and reinforce the monogamy philosophy.  That’s why I advocate anyone wanting to convince a spouse (say, the wife) to try the lifestyle to let her go first with no conditions, and the husband remaining monogamous.  That way, she gets to do things her way and feel comfortable without the worry and jealousy of what her husband is doing and enjoying.  His demonstration of love and support for her without expecting anything in return shows what it’s all about. 

I don’t know if the man who is my husband had this plotted out for me/us, but it ended up with me wanting him to play with other women as well and create our poly family, with some occasional outside play.

In the best of worlds, a man and a woman would meet while being non-monogamous, fall in love, marry, all while having other sex partners, taking joy in the other’s pleasure. 

 

On 11/1/2023 at 1:41 PM, deadp0et said:

 

she has been always a good partner, so I am not sure why she went risking everything by pressuring me.

Perhaps because she loves you and wants to go on this special adventure togeter with you. 

[GoldCoCouple 4,065]

Couplers: That's why we included the disclaimer

 

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Now to add some other thoughts. Please keep in mind that this is just our opinion and doesn't mean what we think is the greater 'right' or 'wrong'. You must decide what is right or wrong based on your own experiences and beliefs.

Quote

Most people have been taught that non-monogamy is BAD and should not be allowed (not saying if this is right or wrong). It can be hard, if not impossible to overcome  this training. There's nothing wrong with this, it is just the way it is.

Everyone is entitled to form their own opinions based on the lessons and lives they have led.