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Indiguy

Married man, has wife's permission, but still...

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I was reading a post on this subject - I completely empathize with Avanti100 and want to reopen the thread "How do i get involved"...

 

Here's my situation:

My sex life is pretty good, considering that this is our 10th year of marriage. My wife says she's pretty satisfied, esp. since she's finding out that not all of her friends get to orgasm with their husbands...whereas she routinely does, with me. I've asked her in a number of ways - for the variety, for the size, for the thrill, etc. - over a period of two years, and she has made it clear that she doesn't want it. But she has made it clear, too, again, over a period of two years, that she has no problem if I want to explore my curiosity on my own, with other women.

 

So, this essentially makes me a single male. Actually, worse - this makes me look like a "cheating" husband.

 

But I find this completely insulting - and rather unfortunate. Here's why:

 

1) Everyone will have their own motives for wanting to explore partners outside of their marriage. In the same way, if someone doesn't want (e.g., my wife) anything outside, that should be fine, too...

 

2) Just as communication is important between swinging partners, it's equally important when one partner wants to and the other permits...perhaps, more important. And I fully realize this...

 

3) So, now, the problem is merely verifying if this situation is true or not - which is quite simple. If everyone is comfortable, a meeting could be arranged, and it should become clear that the married man (me, e.g.) has the wife's permission. Instead, it seems that everyone has this notion that a married man trying to find outside pleaure is somehow "cheating", and all the advice that's given follows from this assumption...It's not fair...

 

Here's why I find this situation unfortunate:

 

Just as my wife respects my desires and encourages me to try things outside, I feel I must respect her choice for not meeting other men for sex. If I don't, then I may have to persuade her to consider the lifestyle, so that I don't appear like a cheating husband - obviously that's not on!

 

The swinging community folks are supposed to be trendsetters and pathbreakers in finding new ways of dealing with our pleasure urges, while keeping the family intact. The fact that they take a risk (of going against conventional morals) shows that they are willing to look at things without the burden of traditional baggage. If that is the case, then why should married men seeking pleasure outside home be looked at with suspicion? There are cheating husbands - but there are also men who have their wifes' permission...

 

What is missing is a suitable bracket, or a label, for such folks... There are forums for husbands with hotwives, and there are forums for cuckolds - and these are accepted categories. But what about married men who have their wifes' permission to seek pleasure outside?

 

And, let me tell you - married men, who have their wifes' permission, can be great company - not just for couples, but even for the single women out there - if only they can drop their suspicion and see for themselves...

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Guest Mr&Mrs-naughty

EVERY Married male we have chatted with has done it with out their wives permission.

How do we know?

We ask to speak to the wife and never hear from them again.

A married man who has permmission to play alone when his wife does not play at all is such a rareity it is impossible to meet it without some skeptism(SP?).

 

Add that to all the married males who try to pretend they do have their wives permission and you get the situation you are in.

I think the blame lies with all the married males who are trying to get away with something behind their wives back.

Not the swingers who see it time & time again and decide to avoid the situation entirely by avoiding any married male who wants to play alone.

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Yeah, Dito to what Mr Naughty has to say...

 

No one will call you a cheater if they can call up/meet your wife and chat with her... Sadly, in most (almost all) cases this won't happen, because the men ARE cheating...

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We have played with one married man that had his wife's permission. How do we know? After the four of us had Angel's birthday dinner and returned to our house for the "party" she kissed Angel, told her to have a good time and left. She had also written "Happy Birthday" on her husband's stomach and tied a red ribbon around his cock. Later found out that it was "that time" and she wasn't feeling well but didn't want to spoil the party. Other than that we always ask to speak with the guys wife but for some reason she is never available.

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Men alone offer a whole lot less than couples. I'm sorry your wife doesn't want to play, but why should we bother with a lone male who can only offer an MFM when we can find a couple who can offer MFMF, MFM and FMF? It's just not worth the bother when most married men playing on their own are cheating anyway.

 

Why put forth the effort for a second-rate experience?

 

This is my opinion alone. All playcouples do not feel this way. That's okay.

 

Mr. Alura

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We're pretty new to swinging and not taking single men/married cheating men/married 'permission granted' men at all. At this point in time it would leave my husband out in the cold. We joined this lifestyle together, and unfortunately a man in your situation cannot offer him anything. (as he is not bi)

 

Maybe as we grow and learn in this lifestyle we will feel comfortable with swinging with singles. :)

 

However, in your situation and in the situation of married men who *are* cheating...there is also another reason why we would not consider a sexual situation.

 

It's all tied together with a gut feeling I get when faced with stories like your own. Though your wife knows, though this is 'open' I-feel-uneasy about the situation.

 

I put myself in the shoes of the spouse who is at home and I find myself feeling bad. I can only imagine sitting home alone frustrated and worried. Even though she is choosing this...I can only see this being a slightly unpleasant to a very unpleasant situation for her. How can it feel good to be left out of something like this, even though it is her choice?

 

(I am *not* speaking of couples in which both members swing, and occasionally choose to without the other - I would assume in those cases they are sharing their fun exploits with each other in an open fashion. They are also both equally expanding and exploring sexually...it is not an unbalanced equation as a married man/wife always at home seems.)

 

Also, as has been touched above...do you know how many cheating and lying married men are out there? Yes, it is true for *you* that your wife knows, but it's so hard to *know this as a fact* when meeting people online... Mere words do not assure when others are giving the same while lying through their teeth.

 

Basically, if we do start swinging with single units, I will choose actual single men. There's the added bonus that they probably aren't getting any at home and it's a way for me to spread the love. :D

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If I take your post at face value and assume that you are being honest I would suggest looking for a single woman to hitch up with for swinging purposes. This enables you to play as a couple or separately and if it's a slow week you can always play with each other :lol: . Of course there will be couples that will not play with arranged relationships but there are plenty who will and don't care about marital status. Don't expect instant results, this may take a while.

 

Greg

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...It's not fair...

 

You are right...

 

It is not fair...

 

But - one more time for old times' sake - many swingers chose not to swing with partnered singles. Just as you have the right as a couple to decide what is right for the two of you - we have the right to decide what is right for the two of us. We are not violating your freedom to play in anyway - but, admittedly, we are not really helping your situation.

 

MOST of the time, this cockandbull story is just that - cockandbull... It is always similar with few variations...

 

So if we are suspicious, blame it on the whole "one bad apple" theory... Except, in this case, it is more like "one good apple" in a rather putrid barrell...

 

But let's assume that your situation is as you say.

 

Your wife is happy with just you - but is also happy with you playing solo.

 

Without a doubt, you will probably find people to go along with that.

 

But - and I think this is perfectly obvious by the responses already - generally swingers just aren't going to go there. Even if the situation is legit...

 

Here's why:

 

It is a simple matter of economy.

 

There are tons of single guys out there - TONS! Sure - you have to do a lot of "catch and release" because there isn't a lot of quality out there - but still, they are out there. If you rise to the top and are, in fact, a quality guy, you are still in the company of a pretty good handfull.

 

Guy "A" - we'll call him "Guy 'A'" - is a single guy. No complications, no attachments, no problems... The steps to a great experience are simple:

 

1. Meet him

2. Decide if there is chemistry

3. Have fun (maybe)

 

Guy "B" - we'll call him "Pam" - is a married guy playing single. A little bit more tricky to navigate with this fellow. The steps are as follows:

 

1. Meet him

2. Decide if there is chemistry

3. Meet his wife and get her permission

4. Decide if we - as a couple - are comfortable with the whole vibe

5. Have fun (Maybe)

 

See? two awkward, time consuming steps more... Why bother?

 

The problem with this debate - which keeps turning up, like a bad penny - is that it asks swingers to violate rules and agreements that they - as a couple - have made. It asks us to suspend the fact that we are in this for us and begin to evaluate the circumstances and issues of everyone else. And this isn't like auditions for American Idol - we don't have to subject ourselves to every lousy performance or plea for an audience. You see - by the time we figure out that everything is on the up and up - we could have had a handful of experiences with legitimate singles. Again - why bother?

 

I can accept that some couples' rules make it difficult for some people to get involved. To be honest - our rules are terribly unfair to those with bad hygiene. But asking us to compromise our comfort zones and interests is not particularly fair either. And I doubt any more beating of this dead horse is going to get more married guys a little action on the side. I think every time it pops up, it just strengthens our position.

 

Spoomonkey

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Indiguy -

 

Something that hasn't been mentioned is how your being a lone swinger could effect your marriage. Since you say your wife has no interest in swinging, is she going to want to hear about your swinging activities? If not, swinging alone would be living a life separate from your wife.

 

This sounds like a wedge that could bust a marriage apart.

 

LM

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Hi there everyone,

 

We have had three encounters with a "married man" who claimed his wife wasn't into playing but sort of knew he did. After talking and learning more and more about him, it is our conclusion that he is married and cheating. How can he prove us wrong. Simple: Let's ALL get together and talk about it.

 

We have no problem with a married man if the wife is part of the conversations. My own wife has said many times she's willing to share me, and has in fact made a few contacts and offered to send me without her.

 

Indiguy, if we all met and your wife gave us all her permission, we'd love to play with you. So, my advise is to be upfront, open, honest and have your wife get on the phone or better yet sit down over drinks in person. Bring you ID's so that you can prove she is who she says she is.

 

After writing that last sentence, I realize I have a lot of distrust around this issue as well. Open honest communication is the key. Remember, this couple is inviting you into THEIR sacred playground.

 

Lovefest04

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First of all, I want to thank you all for taking the time to reply. I think I see your point of view - and it just occurred to me that if my wife indeed is ready for the lifestyle, and if we come across a married man in my situation, I might perhaps feel the same way that most of you folks do (unless I happen to know this man personally).

 

That said, I just wanted to make a clarification here:

I posted on this subject, not so much from frustration at not finding anyone to swing with, but more as a reaction to one response I got online from a couple who thought I was one of those "cheating husbands". Of course, based on subsequent correspondence, he (the husband) even apologized to me, which I think was extremely nice of him to do. About a year ago, I got a similar response from a single woman who thought I was cheating on my wife. It is a fact (for me, definitely) that I am not cheating, but I have to face the reality - how would the other person know? And, obviously, it is important for them to know. So, I guess I need to find alternatives to the online search. Also, I guess I shouldn't be offended by someone suspecting me to be a cheating husband - but that is going to take some work :) Actually, I have mentioned on my personal ad that my potential "friends" could meet my wife if they want to.

 

 

Also, I want to respond to a comment that my swinging alone could affect my marriage:

My wife and I have talked about this subject, regularly, for two years. I have told her on several occasions that I am perfectly ready for her to experience another man - this is our tenth year of marriage, and we have a wonderful daughter. As far as I'm concerned, nothing (except may be a road accident) can affect our marriage. My wife tells me nowadays that I had better start looking for some fun before I'm too old. She is even friends with some single women that she knows I'm attracted to.

 

After thinking about this subject and reading quite a bit on this, I am fully convinced that the time has come for society in general to re-think on certain "traditional" concepts. At the very least, individuals and couples should be honest with themselves and with each other, and have the courage to ask "What would happen if ..." and "Why should my marriage be affected just because I find other women/men attractive and want to spend an evening or night with them?". I personally know of many marriages that have been rocked because of a secret affair of one of the spouses. I feel that there should be no need for cheating - when we start to look at relationship and pleasure differently.

 

My wife shares my ideas - but she just feels it's too much hassle for her to get into bed with a stranger, especially since she's getting all that she needs (and all that she can handle - in her words)...

 

Sorry about the rambling - especially the last part - it's like preaching to the already converted!

 

And thanks once again to all those who took the time to respond. It sure helps to put things in perspective - especially from the other side.

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Pardon me, but I'm confused. You said this in your first post:

 

Just as my wife respects my desires and encourages me to try things outside, I feel I must respect her choice for not meeting other men for sex.

 

What are we talking about here? You meeting men for sex? Most of your comments seem to deal with meeting couples. So was this a typo or what?

 

Now I'm sorry, but beyond that, you strike me as being overloaded with some type of BS. If you and your wife have this wonderful sex life and she is perfectly content because you bring her to orgasm on a regular basis...yada, yada...then why in the name of Sam Hill are you out looking for sex with others? And I'm sorry...I just can't buy into this thing about this relatively young woman (you mentioned 10 years of marriage and a daughter so I'm assuming wife is around 45 or less) that really doesn't care that you are attempting to go out and have sex with whomever. And this comment...

I have told her on several occasions that I am perfectly ready for her to experience another man - this is our tenth year of marriage, and we have a wonderful daughter.
Golly gee! Aren't you the benevolent one! Fact is, she has said she doesn't want to participate so what does the fact that you want her to experience another man have to do with anythng? She doesn't want to.

 

After thinking about this subject and reading quite a bit on this, I am fully convinced that the time has come for society in general to re-think on certain "traditional" concepts. At the very least, individuals and couples should be honest with themselves and with each other, and have the courage to ask "What would happen if ..." and "Why should my marriage be affected just because I find other women/men attractive and want to spend an evening or night with them?". I personally know of many marriages that have been rocked because of a secret affair of one of the spouses. I feel that there should be no need for cheating - when we start to look at relationship and pleasure differently.
No, I don't think society as a whole needs to look at marriage differently. Thing is...swingers for the most part do things together - for mutual pleasure and fun. Not just as an avenue to go out and share their sexual greatness with others. As Vespertine said in another thread, you married a woman, not a swinger.

 

Sorry...can't help it...but I really wonder how your wife really - I mean REALLY - feels about this...or if she even has a clue.

- EBF

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Not just as an avenue to go out and share their sexual greatness with others.

 

Ummm...

 

That's why I do it... I mean - I think the world has a right to know the greatness of the Spoo...

 

;)

 

Spoomonkey (swinging away now before I get belted)

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Ummm...

 

That's why I do it... I mean - I think the world has a right to know the greatness of the Spoo...

 

;)

 

Spoomonkey (swinging away now before I get belted)

 

:rofl: So I've heard! ;) But you know what I mean...- EBF :D

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You are right...

 

It is not fair...

 

But - one more time for old times' sake - many swingers chose not to swing with partnered singles. Just as you have the right as a couple to decide what is right for the two of you - we have the right to decide what is right for the two of us. We are not violating your freedom to play in anyway - but, admittedly, we are not really helping your situation.

 

MOST of the time, this cockandbull story is just that - cockandbull... It is always similar with few variations...

 

So if we are suspicious, blame it on the whole "one bad apple" theory... Except, in this case, it is more like "one good apple" in a rather putrid barrell...

 

But let's assume that your situation is as you say.

 

Your wife is happy with just you - but is also happy with you playing solo.

 

Without a doubt, you will probably find people to go along with that.

 

But - and I think this is perfectly obvious by the responses already - generally swingers just aren't going to go there. Even if the situation is legit...

 

Here's why:

 

It is a simple matter of economy.

 

There are tons of single guys out there - TONS! Sure - you have to do a lot of "catch and release" because there isn't a lot of quality out there - but still, they are out there. If you rise to the top and are, in fact, a quality guy, you are still in the company of a pretty good handfull.

 

Guy "A" - we'll call him "Guy 'A'" - is a single guy. No complications, no attachments, no problems... The steps to a great experience are simple:

 

1. Meet him

2. Decide if there is chemistry

3. Have fun (maybe)

 

Guy "B" - we'll call him "Pam" - is a married guy playing single. A little bit more tricky to navigate with this fellow. The steps are as follows:

 

1. Meet him

2. Decide if there is chemistry

3. Meet his wife and get her permission

4. Decide if we - as a couple - are comfortable with the whole vibe

5. Have fun (Maybe)

 

See? two awkward, time consuming steps more... Why bother?

 

The problem with this debate - which keeps turning up, like a bad penny - is that it asks swingers to violate rules and agreements that they - as a couple - have made. It asks us to suspend the fact that we are in this for us and begin to evaluate the circumstances and issues of everyone else. And this isn't like auditions for American Idol - we don't have to subject ourselves to every lousy performance or plea for an audience. You see - by the time we figure out that everything is on the up and up - we could have had a handful of experiences with legitimate singles. Again - why bother?

 

I can accept that some couples' rules make it difficult for some people to get involved. To be honest - our rules are terribly unfair to those with bad hygiene. But asking us to compromise our comfort zones and interests is not particularly fair either. And I doubt any more beating of this dead horse is going to get more married guys a little action on the side. I think every time it pops up, it just strengthens our position.

 

Spoomonkey

 

I agree, well written Spoo.

 

I haven't replied to this because I think I have made my point sufficiently in the many previous threads similar to this one. This sure is a common topic, which is the best indicator of all about how wide spread this problem is, in my opinion.

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Just as my wife respects my desires and encourages me to try things outside, I feel I must respect her choice for not meeting other men for sex. If I don't, then I may have to persuade her to consider the lifestyle, so that I don't appear like a cheating husband - obviously that's not on!

 

I find it really hard to believe that your wife is content to stay at home and care for your daughter while you go out and look for a piece of ass.

 

 

I don't buy it.

 

I could understand if you BOTH took a little "me" time and had an open marriage.

But your wife doesn't play so your marriage is not open.

You're trying to justify cheating on your wife by informing her of what you're doing. It would be a lot less cruel to do it behind her back, IMHO.

She's probably afraid you'll leave her if she doesn't "turn the other cheek" to your extramarital affairs. Is it so terrible to just be with one person? You state she is sexually satisfied with you. Can't you be satisfied with just her? Don't you think you may be making her question her ability to satify you?

You have said that you have been asking her to swing for two years but she has made it clear that she isn't interested. Why would you want to pursue something that doesn't interest your wife?

 

Not many people will want to play with someone who "markets" himself this way. It appears very selfish.

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Upon reading my post again, I want to appologize if it comes across bitchy. :o

 

I just think that you should really reconsider any extracurricular activities until your wife is ready/willing to do so.

 

I can't help but think that this could cause horrible problems in your marriage. :(

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Thanks for some extremely insightful comments here...I feel embarrassed that I don't seem to have the same level of insight or the same grasp on relationship (between husband and wife), and obviously I don't have the same morals...

 

I guess I must have been extemely naive to think that individuals, even after marriage, can have a mind of their own, with their own desires and curiosities. It seems like I was wrong to think of marriage as a loving relationship - the most important one - where we commit to be with someone for life, and raise children, without insisting that we both agree on everything - little or big - and do the same thing - little or big - and make the same choices in everything. Gosh, I really feel like a selfish, immoral philanderer... And to think that I, like anyone else, could hope to evolve and mature as the years go by, so that we could move from the possessive nature we had when we were young, into a more accepting human being - seems silly now that I've read all the wisdom here.

 

And worse still - to imagine that I was part of a revolution where we question traditional mores and find our own path, and to seek support from like-minded folks who are trying to grapple with various issues arising from this revolution - seems funny now. I mean, I honestly thought that swinging is a broad concept that would change marriages from a possessive, controlling set up, into a more accepting relationship - you accept your partner's desires, or at least try to understand them, and not make some superficial change - where you say, either we do it together, or we don't.

 

I think I see what the problem is - the problem is my level of understanding and my level of maturity. Whereas I am still toying with the idea and trying to deal with some minor hassles even before I have met any woman outside of my marriage, it seems like I made the mistake of trying to rub shoulders with veterans who have already mastered the art of relationship and found all the answers to all the issues that could possibly arise.

 

May be I should go back to being an anonymous reader, reading the various posts and marvelling at the energy and creativity of the revolutionaries...and also work on my relationship and my morals...

 

Thank you all, wonderful teachers. So long !

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Interesting thread, especially because it mirrors our situation, and the similar responses. While I respect the various people posting, it seems clear that swinging is a COUPLES only situation. And I wish my better half had more interest in swinging. But she does not, and I will respect that. I will not push her into this, and you should not push your wife either. And the various responders DO have valid points. Unless you are looking for a threesome, it really is not fair to the others, as someone has to sit it out, and the situation is not balanced. BUT, to the responding swingers, This guy ( and myself, and others) also have a point. We DO have permission, we do have wishes and desires, and we do have interest. Yes, we do have to contend with the "lying husband syndrome" and should have thick enough skins to take the sometimes abuse that goes along with it. We also need a sense of humor, as this is going to take a while. In my case, I am going slow, and communicating, as should you. I am here "doing my research' and this is a good site to do so. Give everyone a little more time. There are a lot of liers out there, it takes time to sort out the "badies". Maybe this situation should be in an open couples forum, or maybe we should create our own "class" or subgroup. (LOL) But I do believe it is a growing subgroup, so everyone give this a lot of honest thought. It is NOT going to go away, and I wish I knew of a way to explain it better. best wishes

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Indyguy,

 

My question to you: If your wife was not open to the idea of you playing alone would you still pursue it? Why do you choose to pursue this now without your wife's involvement? Since it seems like your original interest in swinging was actually seeing her with someone else?

 

What are we talking about here? You meeting men for sex? Most of your comments seem to deal with meeting couples. So was this a typo or what?

 

I think he meant respecting her wishes - that she doesn't wish to go out and meet other guys - in other words he can't expect her to join him in this when she has no desire to, just as she is ok / open with the idea of him meeting others without her.

 

It's all tied together with a gut feeling I get when faced with stories like your own. Though your wife knows, though this is 'open' I-feel-uneasy about the situation.

 

I put myself in the shoes of the spouse who is at home and I find myself feeling bad. I can only imagine sitting home alone frustrated and worried. Even though she is choosing this...I can only see this being a slightly unpleasant to a very unpleasant situation for her. How can it feel good to be left out of something like this, even though it is her choice?

 

This reply set my memory rolling for some reason. About 5 years ago my ex and I met a guy. I honestly don't even remember how we met the guy, but we got to know him and became friends with him. As we talked I learned that his wife had no interest whatsoever in sex. She basically had sex with him to have the kids and when that was done she was done. Lots of past sexual issues in her life and such. I talked with her. She was ok with him finding his pleasures elsewhere as he gave her what she needed at home, stable home life, decent income, family... and was nice enough to not push her for what she didn't want - sex. So, since she was ok with it, we invited him to join us on several occasions. The three of us (myself, my husband, and the guy) became good friends and I would talk with his wife occasionally. Since we were friends we would spend time together occasionally where sex was not involved. Evidently somewhere along the way she got it in her head that I was supposed to be her sexual stand-in supplying him with sex whenever he came to visit. Sorry lady, I already have a husband. Needless to say that "arrangement" didn't work out for much longer after I got that message from her.

 

Just another great example of the bad side of things that can happen, even when the guys wife is in on it and ok with it.

 

For guys in this situation: Be prepared to be patient. You already know that there are many out there CLAIMING to be in your shoes. If you are telling the truth then be prepared to back it up. Be prepared to have them sit down with your wife and talk to her and have her say that it is in fact ok. Be prepared for many to not even be willing to bother with that simply because it is more effort... and for many of us we already put a heck of a lot of effort into this lifestyle, so why put forth mroe than we have to? This is supposed to be something fun, work isn't fun.

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I honestly thought that swinging is a broad concept that would change marriages from a possessive, controlling set up, into a more accepting relationship - you accept your partner's desires, or at least try to understand them, and not make some superficial change - where you say, either we do it together, or we don't.

 

Yes - your assumption about marriage somehow being radically different was very wrong...

 

If anything, marriages in the mainstream of swinging are much tighter than average. We value our partners and their feelings - we value their wishes and comfort zones. We honor and respect what we have WITH them and do not try to pursue what we THINK we could have on the side.

 

A common misconception about swingers is that there is some flaw in their marriage - that they are in the lifestyle because something is missing at home. Your "evolved" way of thinking boils down to you saying just that - something is missing at home and you have permission to chase it in the lifestyle. Most couples that we have met would laugh at that - and tell you that what makes them able to swing is the fact that nothing is missing at home and this is just one more thing that they do together.

 

I apologize that we did not meet your misconceptions with a shiny, happy voice of "maturity and wisdom", but rather expressed our feelings honestly and openly. But - if you are looking for a forum that changes marriage - this ain't it... If you are looking for a community that embraces husbands who leave their beloved wives at home caring for kids - you're barking up the wrong tree.

 

I for one am very proud of the state of my marriage - and your attempt at condescenion doesn't make me question or doubt our choices. If you had a marriage like many of those on this board, perhaps you wouldn't be a "married man, looking to play single."

 

Spoomonkey

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First, this is a very interesting thread and everyone is offering thoughtful perspective - just what we have come to expect from this crowd! I have a little different reaction to Indiguy's original post. Granted, it has nothing to do with the question, but something really bugged me...

 

My sex life is pretty good, considering that this is our 10th year of marriage.

 

Considering ten years? We go to great lengths to avoid this attitude with our swinging partners as well as our vanilla friends. Why is it that it is generally accepted that your sex life goes down hill the longer you are married?

 

We want to be around happy couples who have a great sex life and are proud of that. It takes hard work and dedication to make that heppen. Right or wrong, but we believe little statements like this say a lot about your perspective on life. We want to be with people who say things like, "I can't wait till our 10th anniversary cause every year is getting better."

 

BTW - we have no problem playing with singles who have permission from their spouse but if the verification process means an extra step or a more complicated arrangement, forgetaboutit.

 

Sorry for being a bit off-topic. Just had to vent.

 

Bob (and Sandy)

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Sorry for being a bit off-topic. Just had to vent.

 

Bob (and Sandy)

 

Well, thank you for being off topic. That thing about the 10 years was a great point and one that I think some of us pick up on but don't put into words - maybe it isn't coming through as a conscious thought. As soon as I read what you wrote, I thought, "Yeah! That's part of it!"

 

- EBF :)

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This reply set my memory rolling for some reason. About 5 years ago my ex and I met a guy. I honestly don't even remember how we met the guy, but we got to know him and became friends with him. As we talked I learned that his wife had no interest whatsoever in sex. She basically had sex with him to have the kids and when that was done she was done. Lots of past sexual issues in her life and such. I talked with her. She was ok with him finding his pleasures elsewhere as he gave her what she needed at home, stable home life, decent income, family... and was nice enough to not push her for what she didn't want - sex. So, since she was ok with it, we invited him to join us on several occasions. The three of us (myself, my husband, and the guy) became good friends and I would talk with his wife occasionally. Since we were friends we would spend time together occasionally where sex was not involved. Evidently somewhere along the way she got it in her head that I was supposed to be her sexual stand-in supplying him with sex whenever he came to visit. Sorry lady, I already have a husband. Needless to say that "arrangement" didn't work out for much longer after I got that message from her.

 

Just another great example of the bad side of things that can happen, even when the guys wife is in on it and ok with it.

 

Thank you for sharing your story. :) That is something I hadn't even considered...expectations developing like that seem such a sticky situation. I don't know how I would handle that.

 

Edited:

I babbled a bit and am not sure what I was trying to say so have decided to delete it. :) Apologies for the confusion.

 

Mrs. 2play

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Lots of interesting points made in this thread so far and as Bob said we are one of those couples that has been married for almost 20 years and our sex life is as good or better now than it ever has been.

 

I find it interesting that this topic is brought up so often and then when the person who made the post doesn't like the answers he recieves he obviously takes offence. It always makes me think that these married guys who want to swing alone, are in fact, having moral and ethical problems with it, and are coming here to find other "like-minded folks" who will empower them with the support that will ease their conscience. When that doesn't happen they always seem to get mad, make some lame attempt to make us feel as bad as they obviously do, and leave. The only effect it has on us is, every time this subject pops up, it just strengthens our position on it, (paraphrasing Soopmonkey).

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Soopmonkey on a soapbox???

 

I agree with the general gist of this thread, sorry bud, you need your partner...

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Let me begin by saying that this is the most intelligent discourse on this subject that I've seen, anywhere. I've read everything from the original post to the response immediately preceding this one twice, and amazingly, I'm in almost total agreement with everything that's been posted. You're ALL right.

 

How can that be, you might ask, when the attitudes towards "Married But Plays Alone" males is either so accepting (if you happen to be one) or so antagonistic (if the other guy happpens to be one)?

 

Well, it all makes sense, IF you remember that the MBPA males are coming from relationships that are, in many ways, complete, polar opposites of the ones from which swinging couples draw their strength and emotional support. Notice how many of the MBPA guys state that their wives have "lost interest in sex," while they still consider themselves virile and sexually active? I suspect that for whatever reasons, many of them DO have their wives tacit approval to satisfy their sexual needs outside the marriage, and filling that void by any means possible must seem as natural to them as taking a deep breath after a long underwater swim. Can you blame them for being puzzled at the summary rejection they receive from swinging couples, when it's those very couples who seem so comfortable and open with their sexuality?

 

Swinging couples, on the other hand, see their open sexuality as being a natural byproduct of their trust and committment to each other. They don't understand why a man who is married, but doesn't share that level of trust and committment with his wife isn't trying to get that back on track, and is instead, prowling the internet and swingers clubs looking for a sex-patch. To those couples, an MBPA male must seem very pitiful indeed, like a guy who's always on the verge of drowning - which, in effect, he IS.

 

My ex- and I used to attend couples-only house parties at which several couples had either a wife or husband that usually did NOT participate. The non-participating women stayed near the kitchen and chatted much of the night, while their husbands frolicked in the bedrooms and hot tub. The "Al's" who preferred to sit out the evening would talk jobs or sports on the patio, while their wives entertained the playmates of their choosing in the bedrooms. I don't remember any of the "regular" couples objecting to this arrangement, even though we were all pretty adamant about being a "couples only" group. The reason was, that it was clear that nothing was going on behind anybody's back.

 

So you married guys - Please remember that the reason you don't get much attention in the Lifestyle (other than that which you call to yourselves) isn't solely because you happen to be married to somebody who doesn't play. There are really two reasons couples aren't inviting you into their social circle.

 

1)...you don't have, and more importantly, aren't trying to cultivate, the kind of relationship with your own wife that they've probably worked years and spent much effort cultivating between each other. It's "relationship" first, THEN sex. Got it? They're not interested in "what's going on between your legs," because they've already been turned-off by "what's going on between your ears."

 

The other reason? Welllllll.....it's because you don't have a pussy. But that's a subject for another time...

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We are a happily married, madly in love, polysexual couple who play alone and together with singles and couples.

 

We tell each other of our experiences afterword and then have the most wonderful sex together.

 

I have cuckold him in fantasy play a few times.

 

We are truly enjoying this side of our fun lately

 

not for all, but it works for us - and a few of our friends.

 

However, you had better truly be in a mature, tursting and loving relationship

 

just our 2 cents.

 

B&c

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