Drama with another couple. Why are we bothering?

[LadyCleo 16]

Buckle your seatbelts because this will be a long drive!

 

A little more than a year ago, we met this couple; we'll call them Bill and Hillary. We met a married woman, who I'll call Monica (husband = Mark). Both of these couples have profiles on SLS. I chatted quite a bit with Bill. Bill introduced me to Monica. We chatted a bit as well.

 

Bill invited us out to a bar to meet and socialize but we could never get our schedules straight as we all have kids. A couple of months after chatting with him for the 1st time, I find out that Bill is sleeping with Monica and neither Hillary nor Mark knows about it. Red flag to me. I asked why their spouses knew nothing of their affair. I can not understand why someone in the lifestyle would choose to cheat. But I digress; Bill told me that Hillary was slow to come around. I told him that you really should go at her pace. Monica told me that Mark doesn't like to meet new people and wants to keep it to their small circle. I told her I thought that was weird. I don't have a problem with someone keeping it small but when you don't know anyone, to not want to meet anyone else, what does that say?

 

I became friends (as best as you can just online) with Monica. She told me how she was ready to get a divorce. I was trying to be supportive. We had a lot in common otherwise, kids same age, same vertical hobbies etc.

 

We finally were able to meet last October or November. We went to a bar and there were 7-10 other swinging couples there. By this time, the affair was over or close to over. Bill and Hillary were there. Monica was there without Mark. Several of us were invited back to one of the other couples homes to play. My husband went upstairs to join Bill, Hillary, and Monica, while I stayed downstairs. Perhaps, 45 minutes later, Bill, Hillary and Monica run out without even saying goodbye. Hillary had quite a bit to drink, too much if you ask me. The way they left really was rude and it changed the mood of the house, so we left immediately after. When questioned about it the next day, Bill said that Hillary was upset because she was not interested in playing with the host, who was downstairs chatting with me, and needed to leave at that very moment. Ok.

 

A couple of months later, we got together with Bill, Hillary, Monica, Mark, and another couple to go bowling. We had a good time. From there, we went back to Monica and Mark's home to play. It was really uncomfortable because it was a room of newbies who thought it was a good idea to play spin the bottle. :rollseyes We did a lot of 2-minute separation stuff. I put a stop to it because I am not bi and the people who were left behind in the living room we suggesting that we (the gals) play. I told them that I was uncomfortable playing without my husband within reach. The lights dimmed and we got busy. Again, Hillary was really drunk. My husband played with her and she was not verbally responsive to his touch but had enough of a sexual response to not be labeled a cold fish...or is it a dead fish...can't remember.

 

During the following week, there was some drama online about the male half of the other couple not being attractive to the ladies. I told them that they should just tell him no. No still means no. But it was a big to do and frankly I was irritated at the childishness that was going on. I told them that if they can't tell him no, then don't invite him. Also, during that week, Bill told me and Monica that he did not want to kiss or be kissed because it was too personal for him. I told him that was ok with me and thanked him for sharing his boundary. We also discussed Hillary's interest in my husband. It was very nice to find someone that was interested in him that he also was interested in.

 

The next weekend, we got together at Monica and Mark's house to play without the "offending" couple. When we arrived, the drinking had been going on for at least a couple of hours. Hillary kept calling herself the drunk girl and Bill said some disparaging remarks to her. It was becoming obvious that she needed to be drunk to do it and he is a control freak. Monica was broken, so she was just a giver that night. Before we sat down to play a sexy board game, I suggested that we talk about each couple's boundaries. That way there would be no uncomfortable parts of the night. The other 2 couples balked at the conversation making it a dead point.

 

I know as you are reading this, you are wondering, WHY did you keep seeing these people? Cuz, I'm asking myself the very same thing right now. For a little background, we are all under 30 and in our community, swingers under 30 are an extreme rarity.

 

We paired off in the living room, my husband and Hillary (because she had no interest in Mark), me and Mark and Bill and Monica. There were a couple of times that Mark tried to enter me without a condom, so I stopped playing with him. It didn't seem at the time, to be an overly aggressive thing, just that he was so excited that he couldn't get his shit straight. I brushed it off.

My husband was using my toy on Hillary. His arm was really tired and she had not finished yet. I suggested to Mark that he tag my hubby out. He did. Mark and Hillary played for a while after that.

 

The next day online, Bill IM's me to say that we will not be getting together with you anymore if Monica and Mark are there. What it boiled down to was that Hillary said that Mark went further than she wanted to go. I asked Bill if she told Mark no. He said she shifted her body and he spread her legs and kept going. And she let him. This got back to Monica and Mark, with Mark feeling devastated because he was accused of rape when he was in high school. It got really ugly. Unfortunately, Bill and Hillary are not open people. You cannot get a straight answer from either of them. I told Bill that Hillary needs to learn to say no. He said she's afraid of what others will think about her. I told him, does she really care what someone who forces her thinks? We would support her. But I don't think that is what really happened because a couple of days later, Hillary was over it and wanted to get together again.

In hindsight, it's one of 2 things: 1. She is so submissive that she played with Mark and did not say no (he's not a mind reader), Bill asked her how it was, she commented to him that she was a little uncomfortable and he blew it all out of proportion making it to more than it ever was and she finally set him straight or 2. She changed her position on the subject because of pressure from Bill because he still wanted to play with us and Monica. Still not sure.

 

Also, he complained that Monica kissed him after he made it clear that he didn’t want to be kissed. She maintains that he kissed her so she kissed him back. Who knows who did what.

 

In the ensuing weeks, I spend a lot of time instant messaging with Bill and Monica. Mark and Hillary do not get online much. Monica tells be about what happened between them while they were having their affair. She tells me that he said that he and Hillary were getting a divorce and he was moving back to another state. He went so far to tell her what his flight number and time was. But he didn’t go. He also started flirting with one of Monica’s co-workers. They went out on a date and he offered to drive her home. He found her house without her telling him where she lived. It creeped her out. She assumed that he had been stalking her.

 

Fast forward to 2 months ago, there is a new club in town that caters to couples only. It’s quite a nice place to go. We suggested they go out there sometime. We made plans to meet there. The whole time they were there, Hillary looked miserable. She drank a lot as usual. She sat on the couch. My husband asked her to play and they went into a playroom and played. Then she came back out and sat on the couch looking miserable. It was noticeable to the many others that went to that party. But it wasn’t just Hillary that was miserable. Bill was too. He commented several times about the ladies that he was interested in and I kept encouraging him to go for it but he said all he wanted to do was play with me. I wasn’t interested. He had gone from being fun and confident to very needy. We had to leave early because of a baby sitting arrangement. I heard from some of our other friends that were there that she didn’t leave the couch until they left and he didn’t leave the bar.

 

The following weekend, we went to a social at a bar. We met Bill and Hillary for dinner beforehand. It was Hillary’s birthday so my husband told our server who brought Hillary dessert and sang to her. Hillary looked mighty uncomfortable and had protested about being sung to. We thought that it was a playful protest, but it really bothered her. We went to the social in 2 cars. We were already there when they arrived and the tension in their car looked so thick, you could cut it with a knife. They held up the wall at the social, not chatting with anyone and abruptly left about 2 hours later without saying goodbye. Soon after they leave, I get a call from him asking if we would take Hillary home if he brought her out to us at the club. I told him I would. After I got off the phone call, my husband and I both shook our heads and said that is definitely not the way to handle their situation. We didn’t want her to come out without him especially considering the circumstances.

 

My husband and I had spent a great deal of time talking about Bill and Hillary. The main topic was that they didn’t seem to play with anyone but us. We didn’t want to become their crutch. We wanted them to be able to branch out and meet others.

 

During that next week, there was a get together at a local comedy club. We could not make it but Bill and Hillary did. Apparently, they had a great time. Things were starting to look up for them. They were coming out of their shell.

 

That weekend, we went to the new club. It was Bill’s birthday. He spent the whole night with a sour look on his face. Hillary actually got her butt off the couch. They took Monica with them to the club without Mark because he was out of town. Monica spent the whole night alone. I felt so bad for her, I kept checking on her. Bill and Hillary were incredibly rude. They took Monica as their guest and left her hanging.

 

During the next week, I Imed with Bill and Monica. Monica said that they invited her to go to the club in 2 weeks with them. I asked her why. Why would they invite her and why would she want to go. It was obvious they weren’t taking her there to play with her. They spent absolutely no time with her. What was she gaining from being there? She said that we both know that they are not upfront about what they want. I told her that if it was me, I would straight-out ask them what their intentions are. That way, she knows.

 

Bill and I went to a swingers get together at a bar 2 weeks in a row without our spouses. They both knew we were going. I would have gone without Bill but it was more fun to have someone I knew to talk to. We had a really good time.

 

During the week, I IM Bill and ask how their weekend was, how Hillary was doing etc. Bill got super irritated with me for being so personal. I told him I wasn’t asking because I wanted to have sex with her or because my husband wanted to have sex with her, just because I care that someone is having a bad time. He was an asshole to me and I got off line.

 

Come to find out, he said that he was upset that several weeks ago, my husband took his wife to a play area without him the 1st time we went to the club together. He said that from now on, they only play together. I told him that was fine. I was glad that he told me. Otherwise, we would never know. We aren’t mind readers. I told him to put himself into my shoes. He said he can’t because he doesn’t care that much. Asshole. I told him that I figure that now that they have new swinger friends, I guess that they have no need for us anymore and he’s pushing my buttons to piss me off enough to avoid them. I think that he was starting to feel something for me and perhaps being an asshole is his way of backing off. It is definitely reminiscent of how he treated Monica after they stopped seeing each other privately.

 

So, this past Saturday, I get a short IM from him making sure we were bringing alcohol to replace some that we drank a couple of weekends before. I said yes and he logged off. We are at the club and Bill, Hillary and Monica walk in. I caught a glimpse of them as I was walking downstairs. They got the tour and came downstairs. They stood not more than 2 feet away from me and neither of them said anything to me. Cold shoulder. Monica said hi. I thought, GREAT. I spent most of my time that night avoiding them as I just wanted to avoid drama.

 

 

So, now, I’m feeling uncomfortable. They are friends with the people that we are friends with. They are seeing the nice Bill and Hillary not the asshole that he’s being to us. And if I say anything, I’m causing drama. I don’t want that. I think that he doesn’t want to play with me anymore…that is perfectly ok with me because all he does is piss me off. But, I think that Hillary is still interested in playing with my husband but Bill has put his foot down and made it impossible to do so. Plus, I saw Bill playing with someone else at the club while his wife was upstairs. So much for only playing together.

 

So, I guess my question is twofold, what the hell am I doing? Why can’t I stop worrying about this and have a good time? Why do I keep going back for more?

 

I know that he will show his true colors to our friends sooner or later. How do I cope with it b4 they figure it out? Bill and Hillary are the new meat, so everyone is interested in meeting them.

 

Thanks for reading this.

[biblonde 22]

WOW....what drama! I would say to you MOVE ON!!! your age isnt that big a deal to lots out there! Heck we have two couples that are 25-30 and we are 38...but seriously..get out now. Life is to short for so much drama. And why on earth would you play with couples that our right tell you they are having an affair with each other! that would be such a turn off. Not only are they cheating but with "playfriends" geez to me that sounds beyond desperate and a little on the crazy side. You really dont need all that crap. I would find new playmates that have at least ...less issues! I know with us if there starts to be games and stupidity we are gone! This lifestyle isnt a therapy session and that is just what all 4 of them really need! and you will too if you stick around. They have kinda stuck you in the middle of their problems which is so unfair to you!!! Go find a couple that is out there for fun..they are out there ya just gotta look. I really feel for you and i know it is easy to get drawn into others problems but remember why you got into this lifestyle to start with. I can asume it was for fun and sex not drama drama drama! You arent doing yourself or your hubby any good in sticking around. Tell all four of them bubye and start looking again, you will be surprised at how much fun a "normal" couple can be! best of luck and keep us updated!

[Vespertine 31]

So, I guess my question is twofold, what the hell am I doing? Why can’t I stop worrying about this and have a good time? Why do I keep going back for more?

 

I know that he will show his true colors to our friends sooner or later. How do I cope with it b4 they figure it out? Bill and Hillary are the new meat, so everyone is interested in meeting them.

 

Thanks for reading this.

 

Oh My.

 

Too much drama.

 

I don't know why you keep going back for more but I strongly suggest you distance yourself as much as you can.

Back away...better yet, RUN!

 

Don't mention any of this to your friends. It will make you look as pathetic as the other two couples. I'm sure they will notice that you have very little to do with them, and will come up with their own assumptions of how these two couples play. By saying anything, you'll be just adding more drama to this clusterfuck. A bad reputation can be irreparable. Don't allow yourself to be dragged along for the ride.

 

Good Luck.

[Pepper & Drew 384]

He said he can’t because he doesn’t care that much. Asshole. I told him that I figure that now that they have new swinger friends, I guess that they have no need for us anymore and he’s pushing my buttons to piss me off enough to avoid them. I think that he was starting to feel something for me and perhaps being an asshole is his way of backing off. It is definitely reminiscent of how he treated Monica after they stopped seeing each other privately.

 

So, now, I’m feeling uncomfortable. They are friends with the people that we are friends with. They are seeing the nice Bill and Hillary not the asshole that he’s being to us. And if I say anything, I’m causing drama. I don’t want that. I think that he doesn’t want to play with me anymore…that is perfectly ok with me because all he does is piss me off. But, I think that Hillary is still interested in playing with my husband but Bill has put his foot down and made it impossible to do so. Plus, I saw Bill playing with someone else at the club while his wife was upstairs. So much for only playing together.

 

So, I guess my question is twofold, what the hell am I doing? Why can’t I stop worrying about this and have a good time? Why do I keep going back for more?

 

I know that he will show his true colors to our friends sooner or later. How do I cope with it b4 they figure it out? Bill and Hillary are the new meat, so everyone is interested in meeting them.

Girl, run, don't walk, from this situation! And, let your friends come to their own conclusions abou this couple. I would have been over these folks 8 paragraphs ago! You've already said that he's an asshole, that she has a drinking problem, there's an affair involved and bill and hill don't ever talk about what they really want. How many reasons do you need to let this go? As for being friends of your friends, I would keep my trap shut. If they're smart, the will find out about Bill, Hill and Monica soon enough. If you say something now, it will look like sour grapes--as if you are upset because they no longer want to play. Don't try to fix it, don't try to be the protector of your friends...just go. You said Bill and Hill are the new meat....this one's going to spoil pretty quickly with everyone else too.

[fun_pairTX 26]

What the hell am I doing? Why can’t I stop worrying about this and have a good time? Why do I keep going back for more?

 

I'm sorry to say that we don't know what you are doing either unless it is some form of penance. Let them show their true colors, but do it while you are elsewhere, you know it won't take too long.

 

Maybe you should open yourselves to the idea of playing with people that are a little older, say in their thirties. You should find a lot less pettiness, bullshit, and drama.

I'm 50, Mrs Fun is 40, and we find that older swingers are "in general" much more stable. There are exceptions and assholes in our age range, but it seems that there are far fewer. Maybe the real flamers just give up and drop out.

[JnCC 24]

Damn! I spent more time reading that, than I would have spent trying to sort it out in real life.

[robnbarb 41]

Dear god in heaven, there are more fish in the sea, just get away.

 

I am not trying to sound overbearring it is just if there is a situation that requires more than two paragaphs to talk out on a message board, well you just need to back away from it. This is just plain unhealthy, for all of you.

 

I am sorry I only made it thought about 3/4 of the post but I would have dumped this couple at the 1/4 mark. I can understand age being a facter (seems we have a similar problem in my area with 30 year olds) but that is no reason to stick with these people. Definatly not worth it.

 

One thing I can say, the reason you keep worring about it, its always there. Get away from those people for a while, and I mean a whiiiiiile and straighten your head out

[DBL D 120]

Hi Lady Cleo!

 

With a bit of editing this could be in the story section!

 

Actually it is touching that you went the extra mile with them. The fact that they're in their 20's may have something to do with it. To some degree maybe we older types would like to have those youngsters act interested in us but not at that cost.

 

Does "mature for their age" ring any bells.

 

A leopard can't change it's spots. You needn't tell anyone of your experiences with these folks...their attitudes will become apparent shortly...unless they find someone as selfish and rude as they seem to be.

 

Don't lose your spirit over it, Lady!

 

Male D

[littlebit54 16]

Damn! I spent more time reading that, than I would have spent trying to sort it out in real life.

 

Dito

I am never far from lost and i may never find myself again after reading this post! That just read like a no win/no win situation to me after paragraph two...Unless of course drama turns you on.

[HotMama 15]

Does anyone know where I can get the cliff notes?

[VegasLee 1,486]

A few decades ago when I was in my twenties swinging was so much easier.

 

You went to a party, took your clothes off and had sex with someone. On a slow night you might have even asked their name. When you where done, you either had more sex or you left the party.

 

If I had ever even thought you could have so much drama in this lifestyle I would NEVER have experienced it. Talk about making life hard this one has to take the cake. I have seen movies with less drama!

 

My personal view is that everyone mentioned in that above drama needs to take a break and think about what their life is really all about and maybe, JUST MAYBE come back and experience the lifestyle again in 5 or 10 years.

 

Why would anyone want to do what you have to your own life? This is all about fun and I see NO FUN in what you have written there. Being young was so much fun and I can even remember it. If my life had been like that drama there I would have become a drunk in hopes that I could not remember any of it.

[sensuality 2]

I thought our dilemma was drama, but this takes the cake, I literally have a headache WOW!!!! Steer clear of these people and take this in a new direction.....away from them!!

[good times 991]

Someone in another thread asked what was meant by the term drama. We now have an excellent example.

 

It sounds to me after struggling thorugh your post that the people involved are rather immature and have a lot of growing up to do before they need to think about swinging.

 

I'm with Vegaslee here, if this kind of drama was normal it would put me off of this for life.

[mwsw4ever 15]

Wow! I think you need to sell the rights to that story to a day time soap opera production.

[LadyCleo 16]

Thank you all for telling me what I already knew was the answer. Oh, and extra kudos to you for reading it all! (kiss)

 

I think that we put up with a lot because there are so few couples our age in our community but you all are right, we need to run away from this couple.

 

How should we handle seeing them at our local club tho?

 

LC

[DBL D 120]

Can I say something else, Lady?

 

Please don't give up on the "older" crowd. I can guarentee you that not everybody lets themselves go after 40. There are a lot of great couples out there that are into sex as much as you younger ones. We can keep up too.

 

We have maturity. Ever hear that folks wish they could go back only if they could take what they now know with them? Well, we are those guys; and know what we want but are nice enough to enjoy the suspense of waiting and being patient.

 

How to handle them at your local club? Say "Hi How's it goin', Hope all's well" and keep goin' yourselves.

 

Male D

[JnCC 24]

How should we handle seeing them at our local club tho?

 

LC

 

What's the matter with...

 

"Hi, how ya doin'? How are the kids? Your mom? got that deck done yet? You're looking good this evening, but then you guys always look good! Well, gotta run...nice seeing you again!"

 

Some people LIVE for drama. As a result, their lives are filled with it, from puberty to death. Are you SURE you're not one of those people?

[NewTemptations 54]

Wow! I think you need to sell the rights to that story to a day time soap opera production.

 

 

You can title your new soap opera "As the Stomach Churns"

[EvilMJ 65]

Can I say something else, Lady?

 

Please don't give up on the "older" crowd. I can guarentee you that not everybody lets themselves go after 40. There are a lot of great couples out there that are into sex as much as you younger ones. We can keep up too.

 

We have maturity. Ever hear that folks wish they could go back only if they could take what they now know with them? Well, we are those guys; and know what we want but are nice enough to enjoy the suspense of waiting and being patient.

 

 

 

Male D

 

 

I agree totally with what you are saying!! The husband of the couple we play with is actually 23 years older than me. I thought I would be disturbed by this, but after getting to know him, he is just like me and we get along famously. It has reminded me of something I already knew, age means nothing, it is the personality of the person that makes them attractive.

[reddrizz 15]

All i have to say to that if your not willing to play by the rules then your out .If its not concenting with the others or they know nothing of whats going on then it should stop. Run girl dont stick around.

[reddrizz 15]

And another thing drinking an maybe a lil well you know (Drugs) are ok but to get totally out of it an act that way is crazy . A liltle drinking an other things are fine if it dont get you to the point of people dont know whats going on.an alway use protection to if your comfortable without it then fine but make them use it if you say to or get out .

[LadyCleo 16]

What's the matter with...

 

"Hi, how ya doin'? How are the kids? Your mom? got that deck done yet? You're looking good this evening, but then you guys always look good! Well, gotta run...nice seeing you again!"

 

Some people LIVE for drama. As a result, their lives are filled with it, from puberty to death. Are you SURE you're not one of those people?

 

That sounds great! This is the 1st time we have ever dealt with drama in the lifestyle. Thank for the advice. My husband and I are goingto take all of this wonderful advice and run!

 

LC

[Pepper & Drew 384]

If you see them at a local club, do the things that make this lifestyle so wonderful. Be respectful (even if they aren't), be polite, and tell them up front that you do not wish to play anylonger. They may not respect you for it, but everyone else will.

[JustAskJulie 2,596]

Damn! I spent more time reading that, than I would have spent trying to sort it out in real life.

 

Ditto, There is no reason to keep getting wrapped up in something that is that complicated. As others have expressed here so often (and I think you have as well), swinging is supposed to be fun! And there is nothing abou this situation that sounds like fun to me.

[lobo0553 15]

As someone said, this is way better than "As The World Turns". You should try selling it as a script...

If anyone has had any dealings with an alcoholic, then they can relate to this.

LadyCleo, sweety, I don't want to make light of this because you're caught up in a situation in which you nor anyone else has any control over. HILLARY is an alcoholic! Alcohol rules her world and it sucks in everyone else whom she comes in contact with. It has obviously ensnared you. Don't worry. You're one of millions. It happened to me. I didn't realize it until someone pointed this out. At first, I was angry. I thought I could help this guy. I thought it was just me; I wasn't doing enough for him or people just didn't understand him. Well thats part of this disease.

You should contact Alcoholics Anonymous(AA)...just talk to someone on the phone and explain the situation as you did in this post. They don't judge. They can better explain to you what's going on. The soonner you do this then the quicker you can resolve this. Unfortunately, this is affecting you and those around her more than you all realize. Good luck and keep me posted OK?

[bear_n_bunny 43]

It took a minute, but I finally noticed that this is a rather old thread. But I digress...

 

Talk about an excess of drama. Geez. Sounds like a regular goddam "Peyton Place"...

 

To be quite honest, this is why we will not play with anyone under the age of 35, and even that's pushing it (40+ is better). Way too much drama, ego, angst, bullshit and general mindfuck games. And the sex isn't that good with people that young either (like so many other things in life, that is something that comes with experience).

 

In any case, were I that young lady, I'd take a hike from those people. Based on what was written (that had to be the longest post I've ever seen on here), Bill and Hillary, and Mark and Monica were far more trouble than they were worth...

 

-- Bear

[northindycpl 32]

Can anyone say, "Springer....Jerry Springer"

 

I would have never gotten that involved int he first place, and woud not be in it now. Distance yourself and forget about it.

[amBIdextrous 17]

They sound like a proper lot of fruitcakes to me, do not be a sucker for punishment.

I believe you have shown good faith,trying to do the right thing by them, and you deserve a lot of credit for that, but enough is enough.

If it is no longer fun, run.

[sapphire68 15]

I am not trying to sound overbearring it is just if there is a situation that requires more than two paragaphs to talk out on a message board, well you just need to back away from it. This is just plain unhealthy, for all of you.

 

ITA I have enough drama within my own marriage. I'll be doggone if I'll put up with it in my extracurricular relationships.

[JP51 40]

Seems to me we are all in this for the fun...no fun., no play... I like the comments about us older folks... one couple we play with told me the other night, damm I sure like having an older guy, no rush, you take your time, and you know where to find all the spots.... so don't count us out...

[Charger500 30]

No No! don't give up on them, they seem like nice caring people! why would you give up on them so soon?

 

 

Just a lil' sarcasim for ya'

[rpu3 630]

Dear god in heaven, there are more fish in the sea, just get away.

 

I am not trying to sound overbearring it is just if there is a situation that requires more than two paragaphs to talk out on a message board, well you just need to back away from it. This is just plain unhealthy, for all of you.

 

 

You know, for me this is great advice. Not only for swinging/alternative lifestyles, but for the rest of the crap in my life. Everytime I find myself in a jam that has me asking if it's worth it, I'm going to tell myself that if it takes more than 1 page of journal space, then I better think about if it's worth it.

 

R.

The female half

[randdypop 15]

i would move on and find some friends and foget about them all and stay a way from them they will make it hard for you to injoy your selfs if u stay with them