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A problem I see over and over is some of the husbands thinking that all single men think like them. Because of so many disparaging remarks against SM I sometimes feel like just quitting swing, but I always come back to it. But, I certainly don't feel I fit the "asshole SM" label so I remember it's their problem. Anyway, just because someone knows they would be a jerk if single again (and anybody can be one heartbeat/phone call/email away from it for many reasons) they shouldn't label every SM with that attitude. I've broke up with a couple of good girlfriends because they didn't want to swing. I wouldn't swing without them, being in a relationship with them, so it was either decide on a life without group sex or break up. Maybe it was stupid of me to break up with them over that. I still sometimes question those decisions. Maybe next time, I'll give it more time or meet someone that's more important to me than swinging. And, yes I have thought about the fact that someone I marry should be more important to me than swinging. I just haven't met them yet, this time around. As far as the comment about SM going to swingers club only if desperate for sex made me laugh and is the reason I quoted you, Chicup. I hear if you have any mojo at all you have a much, much better chances of hooking up at a vanilla club or even the supermarket than a swingers club. Your chances of group sex, now that's a different ball game all together. I've been "picked up" by swinger couples in vanilla bars a few times. So, maybe the chances are better at vanilla clubs than swinger clubs. I don't know, I've only been to a swingers club once so I don't think I have enough personal experience there to give a personal opinion on it. I do know I've had much more group sex with swingers than with vanilla people. I know many couples don't play with SM, I respect that. It doesn't mean I should say disparaging things about those couples. We're just into different things. No harm, no foul, hope they find what they are looking for and I wish them health, wealth, and happiness. If you're not into playing with SM, fine. But why would you go out of your way at every opportunity as some people do to disrespect and name call ALL SM. If an individual is a jerk call them on it but good grief, why use such a broad brush unless you're dealing with some of your own issues by doing so. One thing I have noticed on the board also is just as there are some couples who seem to have problems with all single males, some couples state they've never had a problem with single males. The majority have had a problem with some single males as a majority have had a problem with some couples. But, nobody is going to say ALL couples are jerks/crazy/problems whatever because.......they are part of a couple themselves and if they said ALL that would include them and that can't be right, can it? If a couple finds EVERY single man they meet to be a jerk, I hope I never meet them. The motives of a single man in the lifestyle? Likes group sex, thinks the woman is hot and doesn't mind group sex, friends with the couple and helps them live out a fantasy while living one of his own without trying to backdoor the guy, break up the couple etc. etc. There are many many reasons for it, but I don't think easy sex is any of them. There are many reasons for a couple to want or not want to include a SM in their swinging and everybody's desires, needs, wants, wishes should be respected by all. I think what often causes so much dislike, misunderstandings, and/or strong feelings in and out of swinging is a perception of lack of respect by someone. If someone says all SM are jerks and a SM male replys that all couples who don't want to play with SM are jerks then everybody is pissed and nothing is accomplished and everybody feels disrespected and mad. If a couple says they don't play with SM because they just aren't into that and the SM says "cool". Then everybody ought to be happy. I have friends in the lifestyle that do not play with SM. We're all cool with it. I see them at meet-ups, get-togethers, parties, group trips etc. We talk about a lot of different subjects, share drinks, and bitch about having to fly under the radar as swingers because society as a rule doesn't accept us. I do not pressure them to play with me nor do they pressure the hosts to leave me out of the get-togethers because we respect each as people and not just as the tags "swinging couple" or "single male". If you can't show love, show respect. You might gain a friend and you might avoid a bad situation. I wish health, wealth, and happiness to everybody no matter what your kink might be. I'm sure this could have been said better and probably has at some point, but I checked the board before turning in and saw this and had to comment. It's too late and I'm too tired to check for spelling much less edit it.

I can see why you would be worried, but I think it's a slim chance. Mr. Fun and I had a great conversation last night about swinging, relationships, etc. We were both saying how relationships break up for a lot of reasons, mainly because someone has disrespected the other, or they can't trust the other person. You're up front in swinging relationships ... I know who Mr. Fun is "shagging" (I just read a profile on SLS that used the word shag, made me laugh, so here it is). If we split up, it will have nothing to do with that ... sex is sex. If he goes out and has an affair, THAT would shatter my trust and that's a whole other can of worms. The threesome is something they both wanted. Frankly, it would have been a way to try to save their relationship. It may have been something they both got excited about, loved to talk about, something they had in common. Maybe they had drifted apart and this was bringing them back together ... like taking up tennis together or something. Weird analogy, but I do believe that happens in the swing-world. And if that couple is like most, they cherished having the opportunity to play with a Unicorn. Who knows why she emailed. She may have just been feeling low and was contacting all of her aquaintnesses for comfort of some kind. Us women can be strange sometimes, you know ... LOL

I think that goes back to what was said in another thread about how the internet brings out the asshole in many. People can and will say anything when they are hiding behind a keyboard - things they would never in a million years say IRL. And 99% of those 99% that are assholes online wouldn't even show up if they were given the invitation. Why? Because they don't get it. They aren't swingers and they've never even tried to be beyond the replies to occasional personal ads or posts online.

The smoking issue isn't superficial - it's a genuine consideration for many people. We are both non-smokers, and allergic. I am on daily allergy meds, regardless. When we're going to a club, we both have to take allergy pills, as well as use allergy eye drops. Even then, sometimes it's just too much for us. There have been many times we felt literally sick for the next 24 hours after hanging out in smoke. It's a real problem for us, because swinging revolves around clubs & drinking, and smokers smoke even more in that setting. We happen to love clubs and dancing, too. Sometimes, the whole thing just makes me really sad (I am serious). Our profile respectfully says no smokers. We first put this in our profile after a friend of ours, who smokes heavily in club/party settings (the only places we hang out with them), once turned around and kissed me deeply right after smoking. I like him as a person, so I didn't jerk away suddenly (just ended that kiss as quickly as I could). It was just awful, and I didn't want to have to be in the position someday of starting to play with somebody, tasting that again, and not being able to continue (rejection sucks). However, exceptions can be made depending on the smoker and how he handles it! Another pair of friends of ours, we have hung out with for quite some time. Great people. We finally got to play with them one night, and it was really fabulous. In a year, I never knew he was a smoker, until somebody else told me...and this was after we played! Now, that is a considerate smoker. He doesn't smoke in their house or in his car; he only smokes outdoors. He doesn't even smoke in clubs. Under these circumstances, a smoker's clothes won't stink. I've never smelled or tasted it on him, so I believe that he doesn't smoke for the whole evening he's with non-smokers. Maybe he uses that great idea that someone else posted, about mint-flavored nicotine gum in place of cigs for the night (I don't know). Him, I would play with again and again! This tip is for those who smoke and play with non-smokers: Offering to step away from the non-smoking couple to smoke, and then come right back over to them smelling/tasting like smoke isn't a solution, for the non-smoker. It's not just about having smoke within range of breathing the second-hand smoke....it's also the smell/taste of it, on you. Unfortunately, smoking and then just popping a mint doesn't work too well...you just taste like smoke and mint. Honestly, this is why many non-smokers decide to go ahead and just put "no smokers" in their profile; many smokers' solutions aren't working too well for them. Telling you this is offered with the intention of helping with suggestions (not bashing you).

I am at times a single male basher but I am also not afraid to bash single women or couples too so since my bashes aren't discriminatory my thoughts may or may not have some merit. Vegas Lee is correct in that this question is asked ad nauseum on every forum every day so what is it that you are wanting to hear differently today? Perhaps if you could specify down your questions to a root question that is on your mind today I could address that a little more specifically. Untill then I'll address a few things you stated in your post. As for the post that the single guy made looking single chicks that is just going to happen and it is part of the landscape. Let's face all single guys and a ton of married guys want to have some cheap and easy sex now and then (they called it free love back in the hippy era) If you are male and have a pulse all the single gals and all the couple know you are looking for a hook up. You can talk about friendship and "helping couples fulfill their fantasies" and blah blah blah but at the end of the day you want to get your tank drained. That's fair enough I do too as part of a couple and quite frankly so does my wife now and then. Where the single guy opens himself up for ridicule is that he is stating the obvious and it is a no win situation for him. If says he's horny and is looking for a quick and cheap hook up he is accused of being a boar and not understanding the lifestyle. If he says that he is looking for friendship or comaradarie (sp?) he is accused of being a manipulator and schmoozer. IT is no-win no matter what he says. In the case you mentioned (was it really you you are talking about?) he may have been polite and he may have been genuine but people are always going to ridicule a single guy because even my grandmother assumes that any guy will be looking for some quick and easy trim. Another point you made was that we were all single at one time. That is also true, I did not settle down and get married untill I was in my early 30s and I definately did not live the life of a monk. However I did not think of myself as a swinger or as any kind of stud or ladies man either. The thought of being with a couple in an MFM situation was actually rather repugnant for me back then. Oh sure I would have fucked someones wife if they had sent her over to my place for some action but I had no interest in any kind of "swinging" situation. My issue with a lot of the single males that write to us is that they have the same mentality. They seem to think that my wife is some kind of sex pot or whore and that I am some kind of limp dick that can't please her and so she should come over to their bachelor pad in the middle of the night so he can show her what a "real man" is like. Well that "real man" can't even fathom the thought of trying to get an erection if there is another naked man in the room so what is the point? We have had guys write us and I have called their bluff. I said fine lets get together here's how it's gonna be. We will meet in a public place all three of us, we will chat and get to know each other. Maybe do some dancing and partying and then at the end of the evening if she is attracted to you and is comfortable with you and I am comfortable with you the three of us will chip in for a room and we will have a MFM. You'll only do what she says you can do and if at any time either she or I say the party is over the party is over. You can have sex with her but I will be having sex with her too at the same time and even though I am laser beam straight our elbows may brush against her and if she wants to blow us at the same time our dicks may even brush against each other. At the end of the encounter if you want to get together again you will have to go through me and if you try and contact her or get together without my knowledge you will be pounded into the ground untill the chinese are digging you up in the rice paddy. Do you know how many people have even written back? Not one. notta, zilch, zero. Now before you think I am a total ass I will say that we usually meet people at the clubs. There are single guys that are legit there and if I was to say that to one of them their reply would be "do you want to meet at 6 or at 7?" and they wouldnt' even bat an eye. If you are what you say you are and you are accepted at a club, take that as an extreme compliment and go to the club. If you are not disfigured or deformed. Have a dick that works and are respectfull and courtious and most importantly "get it" you will be successful. If you don't "get it" you will spin your wheels and get no where and end up like 98% of the other single guys that think that a swingers site is a gateway to oversexed, ammoral, loose women that will drop their drawers for any troll that comes along

Rhodeyguy, I'll agree, we have had more problems with couples when attending clubs. And I think that is because the single guys are on their best behavior. The reactions in real life are different than what you will find on the Internet. On the Internet the jerks of all types come out of the woodwork because they can hide behind their keyboard. That is why you will find a lot of people putting "no single guys" in their profiles. I took that out of our profile, because I just blocked single guys from seeing our profile. The jerk couples I block on a case by case basis.

Since this is their first time playing with anyone as a couple...I'd suggest keeping that extra eye out for the green monster. With it being the first time, the female half may have a bit of a problem with seeing her SO showing attention to another female. If I were in your place I'd take the whole evening very slow and ask questions of both of them during play...just to make sure both of them were handling the situation okay. I would probably even pay a bit more attention to the female half, especially in the beginning of the evening, than the male half (if both of you are bi). Asking what they would like to happen is a good way to get the evening going, you may have to ask for specifics if they reply "Whatever" ...such as...Would you like for me to lick your nipples...or would you like to lick mine...Whatever question was asked, I'd maneuver into a position so that I could start doing whatever the answer was...Would you like me to lick your nipples? Yes. I'd move to start licking her nipples. It could be that both of them will be very comfortable with everything and you'll have no reason for any concerns. Don't forget, you're also in this and things you would like to have happen are just as important as what the couple would like to have happen. Teresa

I'm tired of happy swingers whining about society branding them the devil. Writing emails saying swingers are happy, but we aren't going to let you know who we are is going to accomplish what? I'll tell you, Nothing! How can anybody be outraged that this is how we are portrayed?