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To you something isn't right or there's something wrong with the man. Where it is written that a man (or a woman) HAS to get married/be married or have a girlfriend/boyfriend to be happy and well adjusted? Being married or having a girlfriend/boyfriend does not make you a better or more adjusted person than someone who is single. I just don't understand what's so wrong with someone choosing to remain single and wanting to have an adventurous sex life that includes group sex. Yes, single men (and women) probably can and do have an easier time getting laid in the vanilla world but...if their kink/preference/whatever you want to call it leans toward group sex where do they go in the vanilla world to find that? To me, it seems that swinging is the perfect answer for those who like being single but enjoy group sex. Single men have always been apart of swinging, they always will be. For couples: If you don't want to play with them...simple, don't. If they contact you off an ad site/IM/e-mail...simple, ignore them. If they approach you at a club/social/house party...simple, say no thank you we don't play with single men. For single men: Read the couple's profile, if they don't play with singles...don't contact them. If you approach a couple at a club/social/house party...ask politely if they play with singles and if they don't, say thank you and move on. There are people who are single who are jerks and there are people who are part of a couple who are jerks...martial status is not a determining factor in that equation. Teresa

To each their own. Some people enjoy single men and/or single women, others only want to play with other couples. Perhaps there wouldn't be such a cry about discrimination from the single men if the 95% of the whining single men understood that not everyone is looking for a single guy and that we all come with our own set of biases, expectations and requirements. Not everyone wants to play with me or with us, and I'm not out here crying discrimination against red heads/blondes (depending on the month) who are quiet and overly picky, etc. And this is where I see the legitimate single man feeling a bit put upon, and I even feel a bit sorry for them. Who says that single guys are looking for relationships? Why are we assigning this motive to them? This is the one arena that allows for NSA sex. I sincerely doubt this is a single man's first choice place to go shopping for a relationship. Hell, we, as a couple, aren't going out to the club to find a new relationship. We are going to get our freak on, be it with singles, couples, or just with each other. Why is it okay for us, as a couple, to go out with the intent to get laid, but not for single men? We all know the score in this activity and bring it on no matter what your relationship status is, as long as no one is lying in their pursuit to have some fun. I just will never get why that people/couples make assumptions about single men and their motives. We are all looking for alternative sex. Somehow, a single man can get all sorts of motives and negativity attached to them for pursuing the same thing I, as part of a couple, am. Single men do have a part or role in the lifestyle, for some of us couples. Perhaps not for all, obviously, but for some of us. As such, it gets a bit tiresome to see the bashing. Yes, some single men suck. And not in a good way. But as I've said in other threads, I personally have had more issues with couples and a single woman being rude, pushy, offensive and any other form of jerk than I have had with single men as a group. And if a single guy wanted to be there for the hard parts, he'd then be accused of trying to cowboy off the guy's wife, or wanting her to cheat with him, or trying to make a permanent threesome arrangement, or wanting a relationship. My spouse signed on for the scut work of marriage, as did I. If we are playing with a single male, we are doing it because it's fun sex, not because we want an extra set of hands with the normal marital work. Seems like a win-win if the average single male is looking for some fun and we are looking for some fun. Single men, good or bad, just aren't going to catch a break from some. Nice.

We have no interest in single men. That's why we don't write to them or answer their PMs when we get them. It's not that we're prejudiced against them; they just don't fill our needs. I've used this parallel before, but imagine, if you will, that a person (male or female) were to show up at a Porsche Club's driving event saying, "I don't have a Porsche, but I'm really interested in them, and would love to drive yours. It's such a beauty! I'm a really good driver! I can make your car do things you have never been able to do!" "Whaddaya mean,'No.' You're not fair to non-owners of Porsches! You must be a bigot!" No thank you, Sir. We're interested in couples.

I thought I would give an update to our poly situation. Good, very good. We've all made some great strides in our relationship. Most of problems were basically communication issues it seems. I think communication within a quad is even more important than a diad if that is possible. Multiple 2 people and how important communication is by 2 more people. Things are really going great right now and we are happier than we've been in a while. Our biggest problem right now is seeing each other as much as we'd like. Moving closer together is most definitely something we hope to accomplish in the near future. We've been discussing moving in together. That is a better solution but not as feasible right now. Partly due to most of our families not knowing about the extent of our relationship. That is something we are slowly working on revealing. I have to say (especially for someone who would never have considered this for herself) that I feel extremely lucky to have the amount of love I do from two wonderful men. And the friendships of the women and men are a great thing, too. We still have things to address but, we are really getting there. Vol

A problem I see over and over is some of the husbands thinking that all single men think like them. Because of so many disparaging remarks against SM I sometimes feel like just quitting swing, but I always come back to it. But, I certainly don't feel I fit the "asshole SM" label so I remember it's their problem. Anyway, just because someone knows they would be a jerk if single again (and anybody can be one heartbeat/phone call/email away from it for many reasons) they shouldn't label every SM with that attitude. I've broke up with a couple of good girlfriends because they didn't want to swing. I wouldn't swing without them, being in a relationship with them, so it was either decide on a life without group sex or break up. Maybe it was stupid of me to break up with them over that. I still sometimes question those decisions. Maybe next time, I'll give it more time or meet someone that's more important to me than swinging. And, yes I have thought about the fact that someone I marry should be more important to me than swinging. I just haven't met them yet, this time around. As far as the comment about SM going to swingers club only if desperate for sex made me laugh and is the reason I quoted you, Chicup. I hear if you have any mojo at all you have a much, much better chances of hooking up at a vanilla club or even the supermarket than a swingers club. Your chances of group sex, now that's a different ball game all together. I've been "picked up" by swinger couples in vanilla bars a few times. So, maybe the chances are better at vanilla clubs than swinger clubs. I don't know, I've only been to a swingers club once so I don't think I have enough personal experience there to give a personal opinion on it. I do know I've had much more group sex with swingers than with vanilla people. I know many couples don't play with SM, I respect that. It doesn't mean I should say disparaging things about those couples. We're just into different things. No harm, no foul, hope they find what they are looking for and I wish them health, wealth, and happiness. If you're not into playing with SM, fine. But why would you go out of your way at every opportunity as some people do to disrespect and name call ALL SM. If an individual is a jerk call them on it but good grief, why use such a broad brush unless you're dealing with some of your own issues by doing so. One thing I have noticed on the board also is just as there are some couples who seem to have problems with all single males, some couples state they've never had a problem with single males. The majority have had a problem with some single males as a majority have had a problem with some couples. But, nobody is going to say ALL couples are jerks/crazy/problems whatever because.......they are part of a couple themselves and if they said ALL that would include them and that can't be right, can it? If a couple finds EVERY single man they meet to be a jerk, I hope I never meet them. The motives of a single man in the lifestyle? Likes group sex, thinks the woman is hot and doesn't mind group sex, friends with the couple and helps them live out a fantasy while living one of his own without trying to backdoor the guy, break up the couple etc. etc. There are many many reasons for it, but I don't think easy sex is any of them. There are many reasons for a couple to want or not want to include a SM in their swinging and everybody's desires, needs, wants, wishes should be respected by all. I think what often causes so much dislike, misunderstandings, and/or strong feelings in and out of swinging is a perception of lack of respect by someone. If someone says all SM are jerks and a SM male replys that all couples who don't want to play with SM are jerks then everybody is pissed and nothing is accomplished and everybody feels disrespected and mad. If a couple says they don't play with SM because they just aren't into that and the SM says "cool". Then everybody ought to be happy. I have friends in the lifestyle that do not play with SM. We're all cool with it. I see them at meet-ups, get-togethers, parties, group trips etc. We talk about a lot of different subjects, share drinks, and bitch about having to fly under the radar as swingers because society as a rule doesn't accept us. I do not pressure them to play with me nor do they pressure the hosts to leave me out of the get-togethers because we respect each as people and not just as the tags "swinging couple" or "single male". If you can't show love, show respect. You might gain a friend and you might avoid a bad situation. I wish health, wealth, and happiness to everybody no matter what your kink might be. I'm sure this could have been said better and probably has at some point, but I checked the board before turning in and saw this and had to comment. It's too late and I'm too tired to check for spelling much less edit it.

I can't resist. You can use a baseball bat and beat them half to death with it or use chopsticks and orgasm the hell out of them. Just made it up right now!!!

Poly relationship are difficult at best and there is always feeling involved from one or all parties BUT when it works it is incredible. Glad to have you here in Polyville and we look forward to hearing from you! I have to ask why where you jealous? Was it that he felt strongly for someone else or that you were loosing time with him, etc.........we all have things that we are initally always "comfortable" with until we full understand them. Perhaps your sharing with us here will help someone else experiencing something similar. The Menage's

If if I can help you out in anyway anyway let me know I would be interested in MFF gathering and I have never done it before so it would be my first maybe you can help me with being nervous

Single or not, if you're a jerk, you're not going to be welcomed into many circles. On the other hand, if there is a single guy out there that is decent and not pushy, I'd invite him for a DP!