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Wow, you beat me to it Julie, Due to the recent threads you refer to I was planning on posting a similar poll today. I agree with your conclusions, and feel that we probably have pretty much the same view as you do. The only thing I would ad to your excellent list is: 4. Based on the fact that testing is notorious for false positives and tagging people who are positive for antibodies but are not contagious, testing could potentially do more harm than good in many cases. Nothing will make someone shunned more than a rumor that they have something contagious, whether it is true or not. Frankly, if someone suggests to us that they require testing we run to the nearest exit. For the life of me, I can't figure out why someone who is that paranoid wants to try swinging in the first place. As someone who has spent a lot of time reading and studying research studies regarding std's and their transmission, it constantly amazes me how misinformed people in the lifestyle really are. Almost every time we go to the club we run into folks who say things like, "safe sex only". I just can't help myself when I say to them, "so if you abstain from sex, why are you here?" Of course, they go on to say that they meant that they use condoms. It is funny how they get this glazed look on their faces when I tell them that of the four incurable std's one can get, condoms have been shown effective at preventing the spread of only one of them (AIDS), and it is the least likely one you would encounter. And most folks flatly refuse to acknowledge that for the two most common ones one would encounter (HSV and HPV), condoms, while slightly more effective than nothing, are considered by experts to be largely ineffective at preventing their spread. The fact is, testing, condoms, or any other scheme to limit your risks, are much less effective than getting educated enough to recognize the various signs of std's when you see them. Sadly, that is not as easy a task as it could be, as the internet is crammed with misinformation and downright lies about STD's.

Ok Darlin.. Reality check time... As far as How you feel about you, I can't say anything meaningful, other than.. If you are comfortable with you, Frak everyone else.. Its sort of like this.. No matter where you go, what you do, You are still the only person that ultimately You have to answer to. These are never easy words to hear... BUT, you already know whats comin. If at any time the other partner in a couple applies pressure to you, to participate in ANYTHING.. it time to re -evaluate.. EVERYTHING I read the posts, and trust me, If I had a dime for everytime I have heard a similar story.. Well lets just say LOTTO BE DAMNED.. Now lets cut straight to the heart of the matter, from everything I have read that You wrote, it would seem as though, you have given this all a try, and despite you not ENJOYING the encounters thus far, HE wants to continue. This is time for you and him to sit down, and seriously talk, this is the exact situation that most newbies never listen to when ever I counsel anyone on making sure BOTH of you are of the same mind, before going ahead. Regardless of the situation that presents itself, 3some, 4some, or However many.. if either arent sure, the best thing to do is wait.. and if the other people were PROMISED otherwise, too bad. There are times, and even the most seasoned swinger on here can tell you, where for one reason or another a STOP sign went up, and that was it. No means No.. Brandy, NEVER, EVER, take one for the TEAM... In the end its YOUR body, YOUR mental state, and HIS PROBLEM, if you arent into it.. NOT YOURS.. As far as pressure, You indicated that you are a bit submissive.. Ask him how he would feel if the tables were reversed, and you set up an encounter with someone that : Included activities that he isnt into Did nothing for him.. ( Wah Wah, sorry no wood tonight ) Be honest with yourself first, then tell him.. Again, its time to sit down, in a NON SEXUAL situation, and talk honestly.. explain it honestly, where you are, whats making you uncomfortable, and that what He is doing, making plans ECT, is the complete opposite to what you want.

I think negative and positive perceptions about experienced swingers tend to balance over a large population or time. "Newbies" can at times, have just as negative or positive emotions about them, depending on the context. We've had about a dozen swinging adventures since we started almost a year ago. We looked for experienced swingers to play with. Since we were the only newbies in the pile, we felt confident that any drama that developed in the playtime would be comming from us. We felt we had a decent handle on our drama throttle and that meant drama was unlikely for the evening. We felt comfortable with the several couples with 10 years or more in the lifestyle. That level of experience with an activity and still having a zest for new opportunities, surely says something positive about the way they think and act. They won our trust quickly. We could see compassion in their eyes - for each other and for us. We do not persue newbies to swing with - I think I have a low tolerance for drama and I see them as high risk for that. I enjoy meeting them at houseparties and talking a little with them. We'll flirt and grope in the hot tub if they are interested but we would be very unlikely to play with them at the first meeting. We're still exploring the options within swinging, so I feel comfortable considering ourselves beginners until we've run through the menu a couple of times. Perhaps after that, we can enjoy helping a newbie couple find a fun path for themselves. I should also say that all but one of the newbie couples we've encountered so far, have been below our prefered age group (close to the age of our kids).

Our first experience was full swap. We have had a lot of that since then, but also mixed in is the wonderful times of soft swap. Sometimes the other couple has limits short of intercourse but still want to play all the way up to it. A couple of our best friends are like that. We do all of the foreplay with the other partner and finish off with our wives. The sexiest woman I ever didn't screw was married to a epidemiologist who was terrified of germs in the bedroom. He brought his own sheets and wouldn't think of having intercourse with anybody but his wife. She was THE most beautiful woman I ever played with. Her passion was for me to get her off manually and then for me to get off between her very ample, beautifully shaped boobs. Then she would rub the cum on her upper chest and declare that was what made her skin so soft and loveable. That may technically have been called soft swinging, but I tell you I wasn't soft for much of that encounter! Bottom line: go with the flow; sometimes the best evenings are the ones in which you don't get laid. There will always be another opportunity later.

tribbles: Don't get me wrong...I completely understand that there is a big difference between knowingly playing with fire and merely taking a chance at getting burned. So, I totally understand your view. But, I have to admit that it has really bothered me over the last couple days that lifestyle couples would stigmatize a couple for being honest--particularly when honesty is supposed to be so highly prized. Also, I guess I expected that lifestyle couples would be better informed of the risks they are running. It has become clear to me that this simply isn't the case. Certainly, you would be safer if you could know, with certainty, that every sexual partner is clean. However, the vast majority of those infected don't even know they are infected. So, statistically, every time you play with someone new, you have one chance in five of playing with someone who is infected and who doesn't even know it. And, play with the asymptomatically infected is far more likely to result in transmission than play with the knowingly infected. So, every lifestyle couple is far more likely to contract herpes from an asymptomatic carrier than from anyone who knows they have the disease. Statistically, it is not even close. More telling to me, though, is the lack of response to my other posting. It is clear that hardly anyone has ever had a couple admit to having herpes either at a club or a meet & greet. Now, with one in five people suffering from the disease and between roughly one in fifteen to twenty-five people suffering from a symptomatic case of the disease, does it really make sense that no one on this board has ever had a couple disclose their condition (other than in an online ad)? The only possible explanation for no one having such experiences to share is that no one is being honest about their condition. I can't say that I blame infected couples for concealing their condition given the likely response that awaits their honesty within this community. Given what I have learned in the last 48 hours, I fully believe that most knowingly infected couples define themselves as "disease free" if they do not have an outbreak, are on suppressive therapy, and are using condoms. That being said, if everyone does become infected, it will be the result of play with the asymptomatic many and not the honest and knowledgeable few.

Assuming there's no deliberate dishonesty going on the person who doesn't know they are infected poses a much higher risk to because we simply aren't going to play with someone who has any sort of STD. A person who knows they are infected, and is an honest, decent honorable person would tell us up front and be politely turned down.

An appropriately treated and appropriately educated individual with healthy personal integrity who has herpes poses a low risk of transmission when barrier measures (condoms) are assiduously employed. This means they take their suppressive medications as they should and they willingly and thoughtfully abstain from sex when they note or suspect disease activity. The individual who doesn't know they have herpes can't be expected to act according to the best principles for prevention. I'd rather deal with the known case than the unknown case.