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I'm not going to be nice to you about this, grow up. Swinging is currently MORE taboo than being gay. Its just not something almost any of us talk about with anyone who's not a swinger. We don't have pride parades, we don't have lobbyists, we don't have campus groups or any of that. We don't have the same issues, but go to middle America subburb and do you think the gay couple on the corner or the swinger couple across the street would get more gossip about them? We simply keep to ourselves and want to be left alone in that respect. You should be somewhat honored they told you, even if the circumstances were not ideal. This is NOT the thing you share with friends. My best man at my wedding doesn't know about us, nor will he. They had a party full of swingers AND invited you, think about that for a moment. They have all these new friends and despite the risk of being 'outed' they still invited you and took that risk. Honestly I wouldn't do that with my vanilla friends. So they trust you more than most people trust their friends. Secondly, yes they spent less time with you, they were making new friends, they couldn't tell you about it or invite you along. What could they have said? Hey sorry we have a swing club we would like to check out and saturday night is the only night we have free, maybe next week? This is a lifestyle change for them, they are not the same people they were prior to trying this, you can be supportive, understand that it meant less time for you to hang out with them for a while and move on. I do have one more thing to add... Your implication is that we NEED more in this and this is why we do this. This means you don't understand swinging as many of us (and it sounds like your friends as well) practice. Most successful swingers have no real sexual issues with our spouses, its not what draws us to swinging. You use the fact that you are gay as a reason they should have told you, but just being gay doesn't mean you understand swinging, it means you are attracted to the same sex, period. Lesbians can be as jealous and no ttrusting of their partners as any heterosexual couple, I've seen it, and its ugly. Don't feel to bad about this one swingers are not very open minded about MM sex either. The issue is that just because you are into one alternative type of lifestyle it doesn't mean you are open to all and they were obviously not sure how you would react to it.

GO! People who look down on you now, do not deserve you when you lost weight in a year! (I did loose weight myself since I started to swing, and people who would not even talk to me then try very hard to get me horizontal now.. sorry, but I don't do shallow people!)

I have been reading through the previous posts, and I think a better understanding of why your friends may have waited so long to tell you about their new pastime lies in understanding that "coming out" can mean something very different to a swinger> If a person who is homosexual "comes out" to friends or family, very little of the emotional investment actually has to do with something sexual. Coming out in this case is a defining moment, revealing that a person is not only drawn to a person of the same sex for sexual reasons, but also because a person feels that he/she could find a loving, committed, and fulfilling relationship with a person of the same sex. To find such a person as a significant other would make her/him a part of your family. Swinging is different. To "come out" as a swinger is to reveal something purely sexual about yourself, and perhaps about the people you are having sex with. I have lots of friends who are swingers, but we do not necessarily play with them. I have lots of friends who are couples and singles, but are not swingers. And, yes, we also have a lot of swinger friends who we play with. If I were to imagine all of these people in one room together, I do not feel a particular responsibility to any of these friends to reveal that I have had sex with any of them. In fact, I feel a responsibility NOT to reveal this - as if it is "kissing and telling." I hope that you will consider that it may not have been a trust issue of your friendship as to why your friends may have waited to tell you about their new lifestyle. I think that it is true that friends can drift for any number of reasons. If you were to discuss this with your friends you might ask them why they may have invited you to a party which obviously seems as if it were heavily populated with swinger friends without giving you a "head's up." I can see how that may have made you feel as though you were the only ones not "in" on the secret. If I were to invite my vanilla friends to a gathering with lots of swingers, I would expect them to notice something was up...

OK guys -- I've been following this thread and frankly, it's starting to bug me. I've got my flame-resistant suit on. This thread FEELS to me that those with genital herpes are trying to make either a point, or themselves feel better, by blasting HSV-1 and giving information about why that is as bad as HSV-2. Then there's the discussion about why you should tell people you have HSV-2 but no one discloses the fact that they have HSV-1. (Anything you can pass on that can put sores on my twat BETTER be disclosed before having sex!!) Then there's the discussion about catching something by sitting on a toilet seat -- come on, people, I thought this was all settled in high school! I don't sit on public toilets because they are GROSS, but because of some flavor of cooties. I can't even have that conversation. What we all know about women's anatomy is that because of our warm, wet place, we are susceptible to bacteria. That's why we're told not to stay in wet bathing suits, we're advised against using a lot of perfumie bath products and sitting in baths too long, and the risks of bacteria in hot tubs. THESE ARE NOT STD's. And if you find yourself with a bacteria or yeast infection, there are antibiotics that can be given to CURE you of this. The biggest problem with HSV-2 is that THERE ARE NOT ANTIBIOTICS TO GIVE YOU TO RID YOURSELF, OR CURE YOU, FROM THIS DISEASE. So if you think it's OK not to give me this information before we get naked, even if you're on Valtrex or whatever for your symptoms, even if your not symptomatic at the time, then you're crazy. How DARE you put me at any risk if you have the knowledge that you are HSV-2 positive! What give YOU the right to make that decision for me? Now, with that said, I also know that a lot of us are/could be carriers of the disease, have been exposed to it, have no idea, and could potentially pass it on even if we never have one symptom. I understand that. I get that. I'm not upset or angry about that. I play with people that I think are safe for ME ... if it happens, it does. The likelihood of catching HSV-1 in the genital area is slim. Like someone said above, the studies are all over the place, depending on what angle the author wants to present the information. I would never kiss anyone with an open cold sore. I certainly would not let that person go down on me. I have NEVER heard of anyone catching HSV-1 from someone who does not have an open sore. Could it happen? Of course it could. But guess what? That's a risk I'm OK with. The risk of catching HSV-1 from an asymptomatic person is much less than catching HSV-2 from an asymptomatic person. Any of the studies, no matter what the slant, will suggest this. Comparing HSV-1 to HSV-2 is like comparing oranges and tangerines. They're similar, but not the same. Finally -- 50s Lady -- it's clear that you are very angry, upset, and hurt. You are doing a good job of educating yourself the best you know how, and I applaud you for this. I also think you would benefit from a support group if you haven't already joined one. And I can tell you're sad that you "can't swing anymore." What I don't understand is Why? There are many couples with herpes who play. They disclose that they have it. Why not find some folks who you can play with? I see a lot of profiles on SLS disclosing this, and these couples seem like they have as much fun as they want.