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According to an article in the latest issue of Psychology Today about 25% or the population harbor some type of fantasy, kink, fetish or dark secret not considered normal. For instance the guy who surfs the web looking for shemale sites to get off on, or the prim and proper schoolteacher who loves getting spanked, etc., etc.. This does not include pedophiles or other types harmful to society. The good news is that generally these people are usually the adventurous and daring types who shape the world. Generally the 75% considered normal usually lead bland and uneventful lives. Does that make you feel better about yourself? Does me.

Developing friendships as adults is probably one of the most difficult things that anyone encounters. We all want to do it but at the same time we all have a difficult time doing. As was said earlier in the thread, I do think that within a very short amount of time we know whether or not the person we are talking to is someone that we COULD be friends with. And every once in a while you meet that person who is just your BFF from minute one. But once we grew up and got married it got a lot harder. Now short of the instant BFF thing happening, it takes alot more to develop a friendship, for starters there are more people involved. Not only do I have to get along with this person, but my husband does too, and not only does she have to get along with me but her husband does too. We often talk about the 4 way connection required just for two couples to feel comfortable swinging together, but if you want to actually develop a friendship then it requires an even deeper connection. Then take that a step further and include the fact that we're grownups and married and often have kids that take our time and that severely limits our time to really establish a friendship. And for many swinging couples they get so little time where they can go out and do things without the kids that they would prefer to take that limited time and go to a club/ house party/ social or hookup one on one, because that's the only chance they get to do those things. We are like you, we'd love to meet some couples we could do all the other stuff with, but the reality is, we have a hard time getting our vanilla friends to find enough time to do those things. So I guess all in all it boils down to, it's hard to make true friends as adults.

A difficult step if you get it wrong. Ask her while you are enjoying sex together maybe take the fantasy of a threesome with another man when she is turned on and horny as hell and pose the question if we were in a threesome right now would you like him inside you now? If she says yes take the fantasy further, if she does not answer she probably means yes but needs your assurance it is OK for her to play with your blessing. She will say No if she really means it. Try the threesome first then later once she has and enjoyed ask about a foursome or swinging party, she must be absolutely OK seeing you with another woman. The hardest point is to get past the flirting with the idea, trying it in fantasy and getting to the blunt “We both want to I am happy with it and so are you lets try it?” You just have to time this one and be brave ask it as if you expect a yes don’t show any doubts because she will be looking into your eyes asking herself will he really give me permission to do this because I really want to? Also be prepared that she gets cold feet the first time and votes for a soft threesome with only you inside her, the next time she might just surprise you. Most women are naturally bi though some don’t know it, a great number of my girl friends have eventually enjoyed sex with another women after lots of protests that they could not and afterwards admitted they always fancied tasting another women as they are curious at what turns men so much eating his girl friend. Just remember women have a huge ability for enjoying sex and once they get going at a party/ threesome/foursome what ever they tend to burn out a lot of men satisfying themselves and can turn the last hour into a glorious girl-girl sex romp which gets the men going again, once the dragon awakes it won’t go back into his cage again so be prepared for some horny adventures…enjoy X X Mistral

It's not a bad thing to want at all. But, I think you also need to realize that while this couple may be the perfect ones to play with the first time ON PAPER, the reality may be nowhere near that. Same with the single male. For example, there was a couple that we flirted with for over a year. Drew was really into her, I was really into him. They were good looking, it seemed like we had a lot in common...a perfect match. Finally, they had a free evening and we planned a play date. Well, when we finally played, it bit. It blew. It sucked. It wasn't our worst swingng experience, but it was certainly memorable, and not in a good way. I wasn't implying that you guys should start indescriminately grabbing people off the dance floor at the club or that you need to swing. I was telling you that while it's a good idea to move at your own pace, and to make sure you're comfortable, you can neither plan nor predict how an experience is going to turn out. I've learned to have no or low expectations for any play experience. Typically, when we've created these high expectations, it falls way short. When we're not really expecting it, though, we've had some fabulous times. Of course, you can (and will) do whatever you wish. Good luck in whatever you decide! Pepper

Could it be possible that you haven't met that "perfect" couple because you're not ready to go that far? Are you using it as a stall tactic? Just a thought here, but for whatever reason, subconsciously you may not be ready and that could maybe why you haven't found THE couple. Maybe you should reanalyze what it is you hope to get out of this. Are you looking for a "porn" experience or are you looking for enlightenment, so to say, in your own relationship? If you're looking for a "porn" experience, then yeah I'd say 9 times out of 10 you're going to end up leaving without it. I am in no way saying you should "settle" but remember, there is no such thing as "perfect". There is only "perfect for that moment in time". As for the couple that you don't necessarily find fully attractive; remember that meeting with them is not a guarantee of sex. Meet with them, see what clicks and what doesn't click. You may find that they are more attractive physically in person than they are in pictures. You also may find that they are less attractive personality wise. But you will never quite know until you meet them in person. My honey recently told me something that really struck home as far as physical looks go. He said "beauty grows on you." When I asked him what he meant he pointed out an adult film star that at first he did not find attractive at all, then many months later he realized that she was in fact very attractive. This outlook has kind of held true for our pursuit of other people. We have met and known a lot of people in this lifestyle over the years, some we would not have played with at first sight, but as time went by and we've developed friendships with them, they have become more attractive to us and we have ended up having some great experiences with them. My point is, good personalities and great relationships/friendships can create physical attraction just as much as bad personalities can dissuade physical attraction.

There are soooo many reasons why a woman would not be responsive, ranging from not knowing any better, to being afraid of letting her husband know how much she is enjoying herself, to just not being a very verbal lover. We have both experienced people who were not as vocal or energetic as we are, especially with each other . However, even in those situations we have always tried to let the person we were with know that we thought they were doing a good job, by doing so it seemed to bring them out of their shell a little and they started responding in a way we were accustomed to. It seems like Mr. B did everything he possibly could and there is no need for him to be beating himself up over this. All anyone can do is ask what can I do to make it a more pleasurable experience for you...it's up to the other person to answer.