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If you haven't read all 24 pages, here's the summary: Loki & Sif: This is what we're going to do, any advice? SB: Don't do it. L&S: No, no, it's going to be great, Somebody smack me if this is a red flag, please! I am so glad this forum is here to guide us! SB: Smack. Don't do it. L&S: We know what we're doing, stop trying to talk us out of it. SB: Whatever. L&S: Oh no, it's all gone wrong, how could this happen? SB:

I have stumbled in and out of this thread for sometime. What I see now is truly disheartening and I know that I only see what you want to reveal here on the board, so my opinion is based on that information, which is likely not ALL the information. Loki, you talk too much. In your efforts to think this out, to clarify it for yourself, and to design a deal that makes it alright for you to play outside of your marriage, you're not seeing that your marriage is in trouble. There are so many red flags here. And then in a recent post to tell us that you've been in counseling 1 year ago. God help ya! Forget the swinging community, delete all links to this website from your computer, stop coming here. You need to work on your relationship. Communicate about that, not swinging, open marriages or a hot girl at the bar. Get back in therapy and have the discussion there with a trained professional. That's the place to talk about all the sex stuff. I truly wish you and Sif the best. With love, S

What really pisses people off who want to speak negatively about swingers, BDSMers, gay people, or anyone who differs from their strait, vanilla-ness is, "I don't really think about what other people do much. We're so happy with our own sex life and it's really none of my business." It puts them on the defensive and points out the truth: it's insecurity that makes people disparage differences, nothing more.