Leaderboard

Just a quick post and run, but my primary thought is that who is to say your way, when you help "show the way" is the right way? It's right for you. It might be right for a certain percentage of others, but I don't see swinging, or anything else for that matter, as liberating when it starts to take away individuality in favor of a united front or if it turns into any form of a "this is the right way" mentality. I've not thought in a long, long time that swingers were much different than the general population. The predominant attitude or mentality I do get out of swinging is the general acceptance of personal choice with its inherent side of personal responsibility. That's about as far as I'm willing to go on a united front with swingers, as all I want out of this community is to be left alone to do what works for my life, and I'll do return the same to any other swinger. It would trouble me to have it any other way, actually.

I'm really not surprised by your observations...there are those who enter the swinging lifestyle and think it's a whole different world than the "normal vanilla" world we all live in. The truth is that the swinging world is made up of the same people that the vanilla world is, after all, that's where we all come from. Swingers are just normal people. The only difference is that we choose to engage in different sexual practices to different degrees. Some are homophobic, some are not...just like the vanilla world. Some are more patriarchal minded, some are not...just like the vanilla world. Some are open to polyamory, some are not...just like the vanilla world. There are those with strong religious beliefs and there are those who have no religious beliefs...just like the vanilla world. The one thing I found that is so wonderful about the swinging world is, it allows you the chance, if you stay in it long enough, to come across those who do think and feel exactly like you do. I'm not sure I understand your statement of "sharing concerns"...I don't have any concerns in our swinging life. Ted and I have been in it long enough that we have successfully navigated the waters and found those who share our interests and beliefs and we've learned to be tolerant and respectful of those who don't. A lot of people, IMO, put too much thought into something that is suppose to be fun...we really try and go with the KISS philosophy...it's worked really well for us. Teresa

Mr. Ivory here. This is the second recent thread that is very disturbing to me because of its assumptions about gender norms. Let's say we reversed the genders in this scenario: Mrs. Ivory can't get pregnant, and what I really want more than anything in the world is to get a woman pregnant. I don't care about the baby, so I'm o.k. with impregnating a stranger and never seeing the child again. It's just the getting someone pregnant that is a thrill for me. And if I do this at a swinger's event, all the better. The woman I impregnate will never know it's my baby. After all, she's married. She'll think her hubby did the deed. And since all women *obviously* want babies, she'd want one eventually anyway. So where's the harm? I'll just tell them I've had a vasectomy and so bareback is safe with me. Then let the good times roll! Would anyone on this board not react with horror if I'd actually posted that scenario? Would anyone not say I was essentially advocating a type of rape? How is what the OP suggested any different from what I'm "suggesting" here? It's wrong to assume that men don't care about the consequences of their sexual decisions, or that men don't care if a bunch of children they accidentally fathered are roaming around the world unbeknownst to them. It's wrong to assume that consent doesn't apply in the case of men. Consent is the bedrock of mature, adult sexual behavior. What the OP is proposing is unethical in any meaningful system of ethics. Isn't it?

My wife was always reluctant to speak up when there was something she didn't like (except a couple of times when the guy was so awful that she just stopped him and made him leave the room). That reluctance stemmed from a fear of turning a guy off by making him think he was not doing a good job. She's such a sweet person. I have only had a couple of experiences where my partner spoke up and said that she didn't like what I was doing. In one case, as I found out afterwards, she did that with every body that she was with. Nobody ever was good enough. On the other hand, there were times that I thought after we were finished that I could have been gentler (or done something else differently), and that was really the case, I wish she had spoken up. I'd feel better now if she had. It's just a feeling I had, but my instinct got to be pretty good after a few years in swinging. Advice to women: if there is something that you don't like, speak up gently. If the guy is turned off by some gentle guidance (especially if it is your first time together) then maybe he is not the right partner for you.

IMHO, nothing kills a friendship quicker than knowing what they look like when they're fucking. My reasoning for saying this is simple: Most, if not all friendships are based on a certain level of balance. I'm smarter, but he can run the 40 in 4 seconds/she's the better cook, but I'm better at keeping to a budget/He's a math whiz, but I can finish a 1,000 page novel in a day, that sort of thing. And as long as those barriers are maintained, they can usually agree (or agree to disagree) on almost anything. But, to paraphrase a rap lyric from the good old days, shit gets different when there's feelings involved. And sex, apart from the most basic "one night stand with the chick/stud I met at the club" variety, always involves lots of feelings. Sure, you may know that your buddy's big enough to wear a wristwatch without worrying about tan lines, or you may have heard your BFF referred to as "Multi-Orgasmic Mary", but (for the most part) you won't get into too many details about what your friend's bedroom repertoire may entail. Personally speaking, barring my swinger friends (of course), I know almost nothing about my friends' sex lives (except to know when someone's hit a dry spell or vice versa). And there's a reason. Bottom line, sex is one of those things that can become very touchy very quickly. When you've made a lifetime of good memories (fishing trips, college graduation, first workplace promotions, etc.) with a guy, it's disconcerting to discover that your previously balanced relationship tilts in his direction (due to his massive schlong/ability to hold his breath and not get bored or distracted/leet massage technique/etc.) If you don't actually know about his skills, it's easy to build yourself up as a competent, if not supremely talented lover. But, when you're staring at him as he pistons in and out of your girlfriend and her legs wrap themselves around his waist, that's where the self-doubt begins to creep in. Or, vice versa for the perceived "stud", as he learns that his high-school level of fucking only impresses women who are on the marriage prowl and therefore willing to accept a few flaws if the final prize is something to be admired (hopefully with thoughts that they can change that part of the relationship when rings get involved). It's easy to make a marriage-minded woman coo and squeal, especially if she thinks that she's making herself seem more marriage-worthy in the eyes of her lover. But, for a settled woman who's just looking for some sideline thrills, a pedestrian performance will be noted and commented upon. Let's not forget the good old "growers versus showers". You're 5 inches soft, six inches hard. Your buddy's 3 inches soft, 7 inches hard. It's hard to go back to communal showering with that knowledge in your head. (In the interest of disclosure, I'm a grower and the physical verification of one very common stereotype when I'm fully aroused.) And it's more of the same for the ladies. Women have a tendency to be neurotic enough about their bodies. Imagine learning that "Multi-Orgasmic Mary" is for real, and better endowed than you thought, and a squirter! Now, imagine the sight of your husband bringing her to a boil in the time that it takes you to get wet, watching as he presses himself between her breasts with the greatest of ease, then she deep-throats like a porn star. Or, as I've lurked on this site for a long time and have taken note of quite a few "I didn't really enjoy sex until I turned 40/started swinging/learned to make him do it at my pace..." posts, watching as your husband turns a "frigid" woman into his personal wonderland. The ego boost of knowing that your husband is just that damned good can easily turn into uneasiness if she seems to be coming over to the house too often. Same issues, slightly different context. So, my advice? Find a single male swinger (We exist, and we aren't all flakes. And if you seem to be meeting a bunch of "single male" flakes, remember that swinging is a taboo/hot/masturbation-worthy subject. That "nice guy" may be a frustrated married man having sport with "the deviants". After all, if they're willing to break their vows, they shouldn't have a problem with letting him tug a few out over a cyber-connection, amirite!?) Make friends with him, let the wife vet him, then set up a meet at a time when a person without any obvious family entanglements would be available or could make himself available. If he's legitimate and interested, he'll show up at a dive bar in a bad part of town, or a hotdog stand halfway across the city, or even at a porno store at 1AM that's known to be frequented by gay men. (And yes, I've met swingers with those stringent standards. We still chat.) A married male, or a reputation-burdened game player won't take the bait. Someone like me, however, will gladly show up just for the looks of amazement on the faces of other people as he greets a MILFy looking woman with a kiss and a "subtle" butt tap.