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It is time for Chicup's Soap Box. One theme I've noticed lately is a lot of people talking about taking 'baby steps' in swinging. Just take baby steps, go as slow as you want, always be comfortable in what you are doing. This all sounds good on paper. I also think it is perhaps bad advice. The reason is how such a thing would be interpreted. You obviously want to go at the slowest person's pace, you don't want to have people freaking out because they are so out of their element they explode in a drama bomb. But really most of this should be beyond you before you even contact your first couple. You should be in a spot where, everything being ideal, you would WANT to do some sort of swinger activity, full, soft, whatever. Now of course things are scary, a new couple would be stupid to NOT wonder what sort of people go to clubs, or not worry about jealousy or the like, but I can't agree with the try a little, try a little more, try a little more back up, try again, method of baby steps. I liken it to walking very very slowly into cold water and never getting to swim. No matter how many baby steps you take, nothing will prepare you for seeing the first time your spouse is with someone else. Odds are there will be some jealousy (and if not, good for you), there will be some insecurity, and there will be some doubt. You might agonize over it, you might to mental arithmetic (well he did my wife but I did his, so we are even), it even might really bug you, but this an adult decision being made by adults. Sometimes I wonder if swinging turns everyone mentally into a 14 year old. You know what sex is, you know what it entails, there is no mystery here. My advice to new couples is discuss at LENGTH before you even place an ad. Be 100% sure it is something you want to do even if you are not sure if it is a good idea. If you are not sure if you want to even do it, go back to the discussion stage until you know. Decide what you want to do generally, but only generally. Do not have a giant rule list of 'you may touch her above the waist but only through her shirt', 'you may touch him anywhere, but only through his shorts'. There will do nothing but stifle your development, annoy other people, and create reasons for unnecessary drama. Either you are ready for some extra sexual activities or you are not. Then just do it. You will never be 100% comfortable the first time you do something like this, it just doesn't work that way for most people. You are taking a risk with swinging, only you will know if it is going to work but if you don't' know ahead of time, you don't know each other well enough. You shouldn't be doing it in the first place. And please, for the love of all that's holy, DO IT TOGETHER. None of this 'she's not comfortable with me there' crap. None of this, 'we (as in one of them) feel it would be easier to find people on our own'. Doing that is playing with fire, it makes the bunny hit its head, it is just BAD. Now yes, playing alone works for a lot of people but only after they are 100% comfortable with the whole concept. Rarely, and I mean RARELY, there are couples who are not into the hot wife fetish who this works for from day one, but do you want to really see if you are that 1 in 1000 of swingers? This concludes today's soap box rant.

I just read this entire thread. Epic. Reminds me of another forum I post at where a lot of personal advice is often asked, and ignored. Here's what's often posted to summarize it, and always makes me laugh: OP: "Help! HELP! I'm stuck in a well!!!" posters1-4: "Climb! Climb up and take our hands!" OP: "I'm thinking I should dig... should I dig?" poster5: "NO! I was trapped in a well, and digging is a bad idea! Climb out!" posters6-8: "Were lowering ropes! Take hold of a rope!" poster9: "I've even tied a harness to the end of this one!" OP: "I can feel the ropes, but I don't want to hold onto them... should I dig?" poster10: "No! If you dig, you'll hit water, and then you'll be proper fucked. I should know, I almost drowned." OP: "I dug a little bit just now, and I haven't hit water. I'm gonna keep digging..." posters11-18: "No! Climb! Climb out!" OP: "Guys, I'm seriously stuck in this well! Help! HELP!!!" poster19: "I was trapped in a well once. It took me two years, but I managed to build a climbing machine that pulled me to safety out of a well bucket and a pocket watch. I'm dropping the blueprints, extra buckets, and an assortment of pocket watches." poster20: "I've engineered a jet-pack that will rocket you to safety. Stay where you are and we'll lower it down!"" "OP: "Thanks for your help, guys. I'm gonna keep digging. I'll find the Mines of Moria and I'll just walk to the surface." **posters1-20 piss in the well** poster21: "Guys, seriously... stop peeing in the well.""

Take this as an important lesson! You knew this woman was "talking badly" about your other friends, yet you chose to get involved with her anyway -- did you REALLY think she'd be any different with you two?! Also, I always make it clear when someone starts "talking s--t" that I don't like gossip and won't be a part of it. It also makes me wonder if that person is a good friend to ME -- what are they saying behind MY back? Trust your instincts. You had a bad feeling about this woman at the begining. Don't talk yourself into being friends with anyone.