Leaderboard

While I think fear of physical violence is an actual problem in any repressed community, I think that the reason bisexual men hide their identity is because of the double standard that m/m sex vs. f/f sex, and I think that's just a cultural discomfort with guys doin' it. I once heard Dan Savage say that girl/girl is more acceptable because there's "not sex" happening since there's no penis involved. guy/guy, however is too much for people to handle because there are two penises! It was said more of a joke, but it does point out what I think is an unreasonable squeamishness. My wife and I went to an on-premise party (used to be called Pink, held by the folks that do kinky salon) that didn't have a gender rule for admission; you just had to bring a partner and be respectful. Jerks (of all sexes) were shown the door in short order, so it was a very nice environment, and people uncomfortable with the situations would just leave. The folks that stayed played with whom they wanted to and were respectful of people they didn't want to play with. While I prefer this style to the women-and-couples-only party they also hold at the same location (club kiss) I know I'm in the minority. Now, the moral of this story, is that there are different styles of swinging, and in some places and boards and forums there are people that don't need to hide their identity, but I think the majority case is one that does want their sex primarily heterosexual, and bi men don't want to limit their pool by saying they are bi. Is this really any different than female partners who say they are bi-"curious" so as not to limit their pool as a couple? Or as the couples that really just want a female but will cruise couples? Is it all just weighing being true to yourself vs. marketing?

I'll answer this by responding to another quote here... and use a quote from TNT to begin the response BINGO. Our society has a dizzying array of expectations of us. It is very, very hard for most people to work outside of those expectations. "You just got married and you never want to have children? What's wrong with you?" is one example. People are routinely pressured to remain within typical expectations of normal behavior. When you go of script, the world goes nuts. Swinging is definitely off script. See, little girls don't dream of being swept off their feet by a knight in shining armor and carried off to the altar in a white horse drawn carriage...and then having threesomes, foursomes and moresomes with their husband and many other men. Definitely off script. When my wife and I first ventured into swinging, I wanted (and of course still do) my wife to be fulfilled, self actualized and happy. A couple of years before she brought up the subject, we'd been investigating purchasing a Sybian (look it up if need be). They're expensive, and we didn't want to buy one only to find it wasn't pleasurable for her. I found a local swing club that had a Sybian, offering the possibility she could try one out before we bought one. I suggested we could go, only for the reason of trying out the Sybian. The idea of my wife having sex with other people wasn't objectionable to me then either, but my point wasn't trying to go sideways into swinging. I wanted her to try out the Sybian, and that's. We did talk tangentially about swinging, but not in the sense of us trying it out. I think that time period planted seeds though that slowly grew with her. Shortly after my wife brought up the subject of swinging again, we had bed room fantasies about it. It became very, very obvious to me that my wife was extremely turned on by the idea. The problem was she wasn't acknowledging it to herself. Every time I'd bring up the subject, she'd get turned on. With support to let her know I was fully in support of her fantasies becoming reality, she started acknowledging how erotic it all was to her, and how much she really did want to do it. I remember her waking me up one morning, and she was very turned on. She'd woken up thinking about sex with multiple men and it was driving her crazy. Once she acknowledged how much she really wanted to do it, at least on a physical level, the rest was history. It took some time to talk through things, work out rules, expectations, etc. But, helping her realize how erotic it all was to her is what made the difference. What was equally important, if not more so, was that I was along for the ride. Had the ride turned away from swinging, we would have been just as happy. All I was doing was putting gas in the car; she was doing the driving. Getting past society's expectations and rules and communicating honestly and openly with yourself is hard. Slam on the brakes here... If you can't communicate honestly with your wife, keep working at the communication until you can. With my wife I told her explicitly that I of course would love to have sex with other women...who wouldn't? What I added on was that there was NO way I was going to without her full acceptance, knowledge, and encouragement. We're a team, and we do this together. Period. In actual swinging activities, we both have absolute power over each other; no means no, doesn't require an explanation, and doesn't involve a debate. It is important to both of us that we always work together and always both have full control over what goes on. If you're sensing a trap in talking with your wife, head right into it but disarm the trap; you're a team. Period. You can help her realize her sexual self and fantasies. Based on what you said about the porn movie, sounds like you're on the way. There's a series of videos called "Screw my wife please". There's something like 50 DVDs in the series. Before my wife had swinging sex with other men, I'd found this series and suggested them to my wife. A week later, she bought two DVDs in the series, and we watched them. They were very erotic to my wife, and she was very turned on watching them. Keep in mind my wife is NOT into porn. But, she was seeing her fantasy come to life on the TV. It wasn't long after that when I finally got to see her have sex with another man.

Echo IvoryTowers, and further up TNT. Plant seeds, yes. Try to convince, no. Talk at length, yes. Treat it like a debate team contest, no. My wife brought up the idea of swinging, but she was fairly reluctant to the idea at first. It wasn't a question of finding what "worked" with her. For me, it was most definitely a matter of finding out what would make her happy, how she discovered herself, and how I could help. My wife takes great pleasure from me getting pleasure in watching her being pleasured (phew, what as sentence!). But, I've made it absolutely clear to her and she readily acknowledges that she will only play if she wants to, for her own pleasure, for her own desires. My pleasure is absolutely secondary to that. I would never, ever be happy watching her have sex with someone else knowing she was doing it primarily for me, or to fulfill a fantasy of mine. No, I love watching her have sex with other men because I thoroughly enjoy doing everything I can to make her the happiest, most self actualized person she can be. Casting aside society's rules and helping her to fulfill her sexual dreams and desires and satisfy the sexual creature she is, is my goal. Kissing her deeply, and passionately while she is having sex with someone else is an incredible feeling, knowing how fulfilled *she* is feeling. I could never have that feeling knowing she was doing it for me or because of what I wanted. Plant the seeds with your wife. Don't push. Discuss. It can take a lot of time. The fact that you could plant the seeds without her running for the hills is a step in the right direction, but it's just a step. There's many more, and you've got a tremendous resource here in this forum to help you along the way.