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I just got at chance to check in on things. I actually think this is a good thread with room for growth by Mr. TT, Mrs. TT and even by others just thinking about this situation. Mrs. TT, it may seem like I am addressing your more but that's because I have been somewhat in your husband's shoes and our experiences are what we draw from. Although you warned Mr. TT about what you felt would happen, I don't feel he believed you. He was too caught up in wanting to play with the couple himself. Turns out you were right in giving the warning. (It's good to know oneself that well.) You say he has always been comfortable and not jealous of your friendships with other men. That's good but try to understand that this is somewhat different. Knowing your SO loves someone else, sharing them emotionally can be more difficult that sharing them sexually. (Most here would agree with that and avoid the possibility.) However, it seems here it was unavoidable. I understand Mr. TT that you brought up the idea of poly. (I wish you had posted again since your wife has.) Let me ask you why that was? What were you missing from swinging that you would do that? Or what did you think a poly relationship was? Mr. TT, do you have any feelings for P's wife? Any at all? What are they? If so, are you upset that your relationship isn't as advanced as your wife and P's? If they took a few steps back and let you catch up would that help? I don't mean catch up as in having the same kind of relationship with Mrs. P. Because, frankly, that may never happen. And it doesn't have to. All of you just have to be happy with what is. And even if you do develop as deep a relationship with her and you do form a quad, all the dyad relationships will never be at the exact place. You'll have times of moving close and away just like you and your wife do in your mono relationship. Now, what I mean by catching up is you catching up with the mindset of being poly. In case you don't know, I am part of a quad. We started this when my husband and the wife of the other couple fell in love almost immediately. Long story short is during the course of a year to two years, each of the four of us had times we were the one going at the slowest pace. I didn't fall in love with the other husband nearly as quick. I was the first to move at a slow pace though I constantly challenged myself to grow. I was too busy dealing with how I felt for Gator to actually love someone else that I didn't have time to fall in love and couldn't have handled that emotionally either. I liked Tech and enjoyed sex with him. Love for him did eventually sneak up on me. What is it that bothers you so much about your wife and P? And I'm not saying at all that you are wrong. Is it that she fell in love? Is it that she fell in love so quickly? Are you afraid she'll leave you for him? (I've had people ask me this about swinging and being in a poly relationship. I tell them being monogamous didn't guarantee Gator would always stay with me.) If you had a chance to get used to things more slowly would that help? If that happened, would you want to and could you work on what might be a potential relationship with Mrs. P? Mrs. TT, can you see how the suddenness of this may be what is causing Mr. TT to have such a problem with this? Can you slow things down for him? I can tell you that it feels lonely getting left in the dust and your spouse not looking back to check on you...lonely and scary. I know he brought this up and you warned him what would happen, but even if he believed that, he seems to have not been prepared for the reality of the situation. From you posts, I think you'd be willing to slow things down. And don't forget his fantasy. It's hard for him to give that up. Gator also likes seeing me with another man and that is the biggest fantasy we set out to live through swinging. It's rare that we have group sex any more. Our time together is rather limited and we try to get as much alone time in with our respective loves as we can. However, MFM with both the men I love fulfill this for him and, though they aren't happening right now because the opportunity hasn't really been there, he knows that it is a possibility and that I am willing. I've always liked threesomes and loving both the men involved only adds to the experience. Is this something you and P would be willing to do with Mr. TT? And don't forget Mrs. P here. Try any threesome you all may like. Also, polyamorous relationships are not any one configuration. They are what we make them. What we are all comfortable with. Could be that if both Mr. TT and Mrs. P are ok with it, you and P could have a relationship and, if it wasn't working between Mr. TT and Mrs. P, they could seek out relationships with others. You do not all four absolutely have to form a quad. I have to strongly encourage you to take the advice that many have already given you. You need to talk. First you need to talk with your husband about what you both may be willing to compromise on. What speed you both need to go. All of the things addressed in this thread. Let the other couple know what you will be discussing and give them the chance ask them to do the same between them. Then, once you both are on the same page, you need to sit down with P and Mrs. P. Discuss what each marriage has determined they can handle and what they are willing to work on handling. See if there can be a meeting of ideas in there somewhere. Good Luck! Vol

Maybe not angry but hurt. It shows in your words. And that is understandable. You do need to work through it though. We are all entitled to our feelings and none are really wrong...it is what we do with them...how we handle them that is important. And we each are responsible for this ourselves. Well, I can certainly understand this. I'll not go into my history in great detail in this thread but, if you are interested, I've posted and blogged about much of it here. I understand this because I felt the same way when Gator fell in love with Kitten. However difficult it was to deal with and work through, we have come out the other side stronger for it. We are not the same people but its normal to change as the years go by. But, I'll clearly state here that poly is NOT for everyone any more than swinging is for everyone. Well, that's the exact risks you take with swinging. If you weren't willing to take them any longer, you should have ended it there. So, you wanted a couple to see regularly. Did you not think that feelings of some type would develop? Even if just good friends out of a couple you were to meet. Instead of meeting a new couple, you both chose to initiate vanilla friends into the lifestyle. And rather good friends at that. Why did it not occur to you that already having such feelings for them as you would have developed over the years wouldn't have been intensified when sex was introduced into the equation? If you mentioned poly at all in regards to seeking this couple out, and didn't explicitly discuss with Mrs.TT that you didn't want love to enter the picture, it could be said you were a bit misleading. Particularly since she warned you that it would likely happen. Whether with Mr. P or with Mrs. TT. It was brought to your attention that it was a distinct possibility. At that point you should have told her you didn't want that and that should have nixed playing with this couple. I do not think you understand what a poly relationship is. It is open, honest non-monogamy with the full consent of everyone involved that involves LOVE and can involve sex. Then you've always know Mrs. TT and Mr. P were close. Once again I have to say you should not have entertained the idea of swinging with this couple. Scenery? She was the scenery? No sexual attraction to her ever? Who the hell challenged you to seduce her? Really, what would possess you to even accept that challenge? You are a grown man and can say no. How do you think that this attitude has been fair to Mrs. P at all? And you are still flirting with her? Knowing that you want this to end? I'm sorry to say that I feel this is the kicker for you. That you are not "equally" involved. Well, yes you are. Now, let me ask you this. Is your marriage suffering in any way due to this? Does she treat you any worse than she did before? You do not have to see him as a competitor. You could see him as a partner in making your wife happy. And what control do you or Mrs. TT have over Mr. P's feelings? None. You can decide whether or not you let his feelings control you. I speak to you from experience. In the beginning, Kitten would have taken Gator away from me in a heartbeat. This was the case before she and he started this relationship. Really, all you had was her word then that she would stay with you. You have her word now as well. You either take the risk of trusting her or you don't. Here you are wrong. What went wrong in Vegas is that you didn't communicate your feelings on the subject the way you should have. I speak from experience here as well. You should never let yourself be pushed into anything. I was a doormat for a while because I was afraid of losing Gator. Until I realized what I just told you above. And you cannot live a life always repressing your feelings. That in itself will ruin your marriage with Mrs. TT more than her relationship with Mr. P. You have to be honest about them with yourself and with your wife. The rest of your post seems to be more of your self destructing thoughts fueled by your pain and resentment. Stop it. You may be talking with Mrs. TT but are you both listening to what the other is saying? Or are you too busy trying to make sure she gets where you are coming from? You both need to listen as well as talk. I know that I may have come across harsh here. I'm sorry if you feel that is the case. Please do not forget when you read this and think about it, that I have been speaking to you from experience for the most part. As an afterthought, I really should explain that I am not trying to convince you that poly is the way to go. I am not trying to convert anyone.

Sometimes absolute trust giving results in absolute trust getting There's another thread on here about a woman saying "Aren't I enough for you?" I didn't respond in that thread, but what you said above applies. We already share ourselves with people around us constantly, every day. We share time, emotions, thoughts, chats, meals, all sorts of things. "Aren't I enough for you?" would smack of trying to be enough for ALL things in a person's life. Nobody can do that. It's hardly surprising that there are many people who find it applies to sex as well, and romantic love too for some. It probably doesn't alarm you. But, this area of emotional non-monogamy is uncharted territory for most people. For me, I don't mind my wife having sex with other people. As much as she likes, if she likes. I do mind if she starts falling in love with someone else. I don't consider that jealousy. I just prefer us to focus on our love at this point in our lives, and not our romantic love for other people. If I were to venture into an area where she is falling in love with other people, it would take a great deal of adjustment. All of us can think we'll like something. From that, we might encourage it, help our spouses pursue it, and happily do so. Then when reality sets in, we find that it's not what we thought it was going to be like. This happens sometimes with couples getting into swinging, where the enthusiastic husband finds out that watching their wives have sex with another man isn't what they'd thought it was going to be like, and invert on their desire to be swingers. It isn't WRONG to behave in this way. We can't absolutely know how we'll feel about something until we're actually doing it. Nor should you feel obligated to do so. If it's not in you, it's not in you. I see a person who is asking for some understanding of how he is feeling, some legitimization of his emotions in the current scenario. You can do that for him, even if you don't feel the same way he does about it. It can be very difficult to get into the same mindset as someone else when it comes to emotions. We just don't feel like they feel. That doesn't mean we can't be understanding and supportive of them. Their emotions aren't wrong or right, they just are. He has a right to his emotions and so do you. I think he's voicing he's not happy with the current scenario. I noted in an earlier post that if you venture into polyamory again, you should do so with a new couple, and not this couple. Emotions don't have to be equally balanced all the way around a quad-poly. In fact, it'd be a shock if they were. But, each person in the quad has to feel like they want to be in it, else it falls apart. Your husband doesn't want to be in this quad. That much is apparent. Maybe if you met up with a couple where both of you fell in love with the opposites in the other couple you'd both feel a lot better. Swinging is a way to test this out to some degree; are both of you equally having fun? Consistently? Ok, move up a step; see the same couple repeatedly. Still going ok? Ok, let the emotions start to develop, spend nights together, go on trips together. Still going ok? Alright, let's try swapping for a week at time. Still going ok? Alright, let's try moving in together on a trial basis. Etc. You get the picture. Your husband might want to proceed more slowly. In the current scenario, for you it was engage warp drives and suddenly you were having mad, passionate, loving sex with this other man. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that, so long as everyone around the poly-quad is happy with that. But, you left your husband in the dust. He probably feels like he got run over by a bus A VERY mature response. Sometimes people fail to understand that sometimes the best thing to do is nothing until a later moment. Your husband is upset. It's not surprising there's turmoil right now. This will calm down in time, and once you're all back on the same page again and walking forward together, this problem will evaporate. That doesn't mean it's balanced for your husband, or balanced enough for him to feel comfortable. You're the love of his life. He deeply, ardently loves and adores you. Suddenly he's finding his bed empty of you, you gone for long periods, and he's left with a woman he's not in love with at all like you are in love with P. That can be pretty unnerving, even to the most non-jealous of people. If ever your relationship with him stops being a work in progress, your relationship is over. Good relationships are always a work in progress. Bad ones stop working. Please understand in all of this I'm not saying you are wrong and he is right or the opposite. I'm just offering potential viewpoints. Both of you have a lot of work to do. Having insight from other viewpoints can help that. I for one am VERY glad you're posting all of this here. I think you're doing your relationship a great service by baring this here, and seeking input. Bravo!