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This is not directed towards anything specific in this situation, this is just a little soapbox sermon from my own twisted mind and is intended to simply be some food for thought for Jason or anyone else that is bored enough to read this. A fun night or two of casual, safe, consensual sex never hurt anyone. Where pain, frustration, drama, hurt feelings, jealousy etc etc comes from is relationships and the pursuit of relationships. As humans we innately seek connections but in the swinging realm, people are rarely hurt by meeting someone and having a sexual encounter and then walking away. The hurt comes from trying to establish an ongoing relationship and then "investing" a lot of emotional time and energy into that relationship and then having that investment not be returned. In my personal opinion you were not hurt by your wife and this guy banging one out, people have sex all the time in the lifestyle. You were hurt because you had placed a very high degree of emotional investment into this relationship and in the end your investment was not returned. You felt like you adhered to your end of the bargain and were sincere in your obligations but felt betrayed by others that you felt did not invest into the relationship to your standards and expectations. You felt your level of commitment was not returned. Everyone agreed to the rules and while you continued to be committed to them, everyone else wandered off into other greener pastures once it wasn't fun for them anymore. I've read a few people's accounts on this website that they have had successfull exclusive or near-exclusive relationships for a year or more but I believe those to be a tiny minority. Of all the people that I have known in person that either had an exclusive relationship or at least a relationship with a lot of emotional investment ALL of them have ended with drama and hurt feelings and a few have even ended up with some significant damage to their marriages. Most of them have also either left the lifestyle completely or at least were quite soured on the lifestyle and completely off the market for an extended period of time. I am not knocking anyone's preferences or practices. I am just sharing what I have seen with my own eyes several times in a row without exception. IMHO opinion people think they can avoid the dangers and pitfalls of sexuality if they enter into significant quasi-mongamous relationships with other couples, but the reality is that in swinging the dangers and pitfalls are not the sex but the relationships. Again, this is just my personal opinion and you can do with it what you want but it may be something to consider.

There is a very big difference between being aggressive and letting your sexual interest be known. Even a shy guy should be letting his sexual intent be known, otherwise even women who like shy guys aren't going to take much notice. Add to that, women who will seek out shy guys and make the moves are quite rare. I don't think anyone would ever tell you to change who you are, but I think you can take the feedback and adjust some of how you handle these situations. When sitting with a woman you are attracted to and talking, start doing two things: - While talking to her imagine what it would be like for her to be - Start touching her in innocent and friendly ways and gradually escalate to more intimate touching. By thinking about her doing a sexual act you will start feeling that sexual energy. Without sounding too new age, that is something that the women will pick up on. Even when you're having a non-sexual conversation. By escalating your touch you start to get a sense of whether she is interested as well. If she reciprocates your friendly touches, or is obviously enjoying it, then you can escalate that. Go from touching her shoulder while talking to holding her hand, or leaving your touch a bit longer than usual. Put your arm around her etc. As you both get comfortable with the touch you can become more intimate. I don't mean grabbing her breats or checking if she is wearing underwear though. I mean touching her leg, arm around her waist, touching her hair, light kissing etc. This isn't an instant thing as LFM described, but something you do as you both get comfortable during the conversation. Even a shy guy can do this and still be himself Not every woman is going to respond to it, but not every woman will be interested in you either. I think it's still very respectful and appropriate to do.

*shrugs*,..to each their own I guess. I never respond well to a aggressive male. I like gentleman and shy guys. I will go out of my way to say hello to a cute one. Say a shy guy takes the advice, and acts more aggressive. What then happens when he gets to the bedroom, and isn`t aggressive ? Yet she is expecting that ? It`s better to just be yourself. The naturally aggressive men can then attract the more submissive bedmates who like that kind of guy. The shy guys and gentleman, just be yourselves. You`ll end up with bed partners more suitable to your style, rather then feeling like you have to put on a performance.

"Let me ask you an honest question.. Do these people decide anything else for you.. Do they tell you what to wear, what to eat, and where to work or shop?" No they don't and I understand that I shouldn't have taken what was said to heart. I can take critisism from a friend or stranger but find it harder to swallow and ignore when its from a family member. It was also harder to ignore because of my feelings on my hubby being away for long periods of time. I started doubting many things, my appearance only a small part of that. "Lets be clear, he is right.. You started talking as a couple, and for your first event sent him to warm up the car as you played solo.. And when he came in, waited for the invite that never came.. This is the biggest issue that can arise when a couple decides to play without the other SOLO. Levels of jealousy occur at different times.. And watching from the door, listening from the living room, isn't the same as BEING THERE. Because you played solo, sending him out/away.. it sets a screwed up dynamic in motion. He was telling you he wanted to be involved but was unsure IF you wanted him involved.. reaching out for him would have went along way, rolling over and flipping the covers back for him to get in bed is another" I never specified we have a profile which states looking for men women and couples as we had decided on learning as we went thus played together and seperate. We have now both played seperate but never together. It's harder finding a common attraction when its 4 people instead of 2. Hence the reason we decided to learn as we went. But yes the whole situation was rather confusing and you nailed him feeling like he was sent away so I could play solo right on. I had told him before we went to this mans house I wasn't sure what to expect or how to go about anything. I never got any indication from anyone when anything was to start thus went the way I found easiest. Wrong yes, unfixable? No. I felt if he had vocalized about how he felt after the experiance today I might not be feeling how I feel. "The key is to know Who is who, and what YOU want your relationships to be." I did know thisand expected... or DEMANDED that we have rules and the other party listened. If one wanted to take a break WE both took the break, not when it was conveniant. He had conveniance and chose to ignore my request for playing to stop until I was secure in the relationship and my own skin again. Honestly, I don't find that a hard request to follow especially when the adult lifestyle is part of the relationship. "k, here is the bottom line, Yes what happened between this other woman and him was WRONG, and can be called flat out cheating, But he did admit he was wrong." I don't know if its because I'm a woman but I need to know why. WHY did it happen and ths far I have gotten feeble answers. I did get one I was half ass understanding but definitly not ok with which was he only went forth with everything because they decided I would not find out. After doing it and being back where he was supposed to be he decided that he needed to tell me because he loved me and really fucked up. I'm angry and completely devastated that he couldn't follow one little rule. It's not like I had said no swinging ever EVER again. I said I need a break to be with him and only him. I appreciate the response and do take everything you said as an opinion. I know its harder to understand the full situation without every last detail being put forth as well. Thanks realcplub2.