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I love philosophical debates with immoral degenerates. I especially love how the debate disappears when the panties come off

I have an idea. Lets forget the words "Swingers" or Lifestyle and just go with immoral degenerates. If you look up both words seems to pretty much cover anything and everything that is ever discussed here.

Full swappers, which are also a type of swinging. See my venn diagram, it's a work in progress... I'm sure yours will look different (as will everyone else's). I do love these "what is swinging?" threads, they are always fun, and drama-free (ok, maybe not drama-free).

When I first started in the anonymous gangbang scene, everyone was bareback. Those were the days before HIV. When HIV hit, we all went to condoms … and something huge was lost. Women are evolved to feel a special little (actually not so little) thrill when a penis ejaculates inside her. The vagina has special texture sensors in the lining specifically designed to detect the subtle changes in hardness, bloating, and texture of the head and shaft of the penis in the few seconds before ejaculation (the so-called “point of no return” when the man feels that he is GOING to cum). Condoms remove those sensations. But the thought of a fatal disease overwhelmed our need to feel that. The result was dulled sensations, men losing erections while fucking, and ejaculations that take longer to get there and are weaker for the men. The real culprit wasn’t HIV, but the condom companies. They would give free condoms to “save sex” advocate groups in exchange for hyping the threat. It was soon discovered that the odds of contracting HIV from one episode of unprotected sex is one in 300, and that’s for the female taking an entire ejaculation in the vagina. For the male it’s more like 1 in 500. When you combine these probabilities with the probability of someone at the gangbang being infected (0.5%), the chances of getting HIV are 1 in 60,000. Finally, when the protease inhibitors were discovered, the risk dropped to near zero. Still, my husband and I were concerned. My sexual mainstay is adult theater sex, where I will take upwards of 25-30 vaginal ejaculations and I want them all bare, but not at the risk of dying. We mulled around the numbers. The probability of getting killed in a car accident on the way to the adult theater is 10 times higher. The probability of contracting hepatitis from making out with a stranger at a bar is 100 times higher. Still, we brought 24 condoms with us on each trip to the adult theater, and usually ran out of condoms before the crowd all were satisfied. Just to show you how “dead” the condoms make it, it normally takes about 40 minutes to finish off a crowd of 30 men at an adult theater. With the condoms it took over an hour to do 24 of them … and I couldn’t feel any of the ejaculations – a huge part of my thrill. Our caution ended abruptly in the early 90s at an adult theater called the Barbwire in Toronto. This theater had two rooms separated by a wall with a gloryhole behind the screens. A woman can fuck through the gloryhole while simultaneously blowing someone else in her room, or getting felt up by 20 hands. It was a great venue for hole fucking because you can bend way forward with your butt up against the wall, and the guys in your room will hold you still. That night the first cock to come through the hole was throbbing. That kind of erection so solid that it does a little bounce with each heartbeat. The head was bloated purple, and there was a stream of precum hanging off the tip. I did NOT want to put a condom on this. I looked at my husband and he just nodded. That cock exploded as soon as it went in me, and that huge thrill hit me for the first time in almost 10 years. When the guys in my room saw I took it bareback up the vagina, the room emptied. They were not running away … they were running to the other side of the wall. And that was it. Never slapped another condom on another cock again. Swingers are very vindictive. I have been called “evil”, “stupid”, “foolish”, “slimy”, and a whole bunch of other names I won’t repeat because of my love of bareback. But I’m 52, I’ve been doing bareback at gangbangs and adult theaters since age 17, and I’m still alive, still healthy … and I’m happy. That’s hardly “stupid”.

You may well think it's nonsense, because it doesn't fit into your very small tent. However, to argue that your tent is the only one that fits isn't particularly logical. For instance, even with your theoretical narrowly defined swinger couple, you are still going to have to dig a little further to find out if they're soft or full swap. Or married rather than partnered. Or even that what they want to do on that night fits your definition of swinging, because that can change from one night to the next. "Swinger" is a pretty big tent, but it's smaller than the "ethically non-monogamous" one or the "I/we have sex with others with or without our partner's permission." And all of them are a helluva a lot bigger than yours. Thank God.

Yes, most men want to be king in bed with their wife, and if they are not sure that they are then maybe they need to reconsider swinging. I think every experienced swinging wife on this board would tell you that in the grand scheme of things her husband is the best sex she has. This is because really good sex happens between the ears as much as between the legs, and there is a trust, security, and love with your spouse that is not there with strangers. It is soul sex. Also, as I mentioned in another thread about the recent sex poll at AskMen.com although 39% of vanilla men list a threesome as their number one sex fantasy, only 2% of men responding to the poll fantasize about their SO having sex with another man. This is simply because these guys can't get over themselves. I can answer this from a man's point of view. I've seen Mrs. WS scream louder with another man (who has much more girth then I) then she ever has with me. She was embarrassed and was afraid she hurt my feelings. I thought it was hot. It was really cool to see her having that much fun, and having that much trust in me and our relationship that she could let go like that without worry. If I didn't give her that freedom then I'd just be selfish and insecure, and thus jealous. "In jealousy there is more self-love then love." On the ride home she couldn't stop thanking ME for the good time she had. Once again, if this is even a concern then he needs to reconsider swinging, or how they are going to swing. I've been in this situation, too. I watched Mrs. WS turn around from cowgirl to reverse cowgirl on the same guy as above without his dick ever leaving her pussy. Pretty impressive. She had never tried that with me. But we did it the next time we had sex. Was I jealous? No. Was I impressed? Yes. Was I proud that my wonderful wife blew this guy's mind? Yes. This is just another example of how some guys can't get over their own macho bullshit. They can't get over themselves. They think their wife married them because they are the alpha-male with the big cock that makes her cum harder then she ever has. What insecure, macho BS. Unless a woman was a virgin when she married him chances are she had at least as good sex with someone else sometime in her life. I personally think this is the reason some men fear experienced women, they are insecure about her past lovers. If a guy isn't prepared to accept the fact that his wife might really like having sex with someone else then he shouldn't be swinging. If he wants to be sure the throne in his little world is never threatened then he should never venture out of it. This is drama waiting to happen. No, you can't blame them for having these insecurities for just the reasons you list; but you can blame men for dwelling on them and not doing something to overcome them. Mr. WS

A question was asked, and an opinion was given. You are no more correct than Chicup. Who draws the line where swinging begins and where is it? Certainly not you, Chicup...or me. I find it amusingly ironic when a board member insinuates someone else is narrow minded (or flat out says it) when that someone doesn't agree with them. Like someone mentioned above "It is what they say it is". But, not everyone would agree them.

Completely irrelevant. If I say "he is a fisherman" does that give you some useful information to what he does? He might be a bass fisherman, a salt water fisherman, a fly fisherman etc. Swinger is being used by you apparently as "Alternative lifestyle". Both swingers and hot wife couples (and note there is a separate term for them to start with!) are alternative lifestyles, but apparently that means the same as swinger now. Boo hoo, I don't think hot wife = swinger. THANK GOD its just my opinion otherwise... well er... nothing has changed... So if hot wife means well hot wife, and swinger can mean hot wife, what does a couple that exchanges partners for sex get called?