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Lol. That is hilarious! More good advice from everyone. Thank you. Our profile is positive. We don't give "gory" details on anything for a few reasons (chiefly some semblance of privacy and wanting to save discussion for those couples we click with). Funny, after posting this, we received a note from a couple we'd written off. Their practice however has been to respond to email about every three or four days. Who knows. I guess the main thing is just to stay positive and have fun along the way. MrMarvin

I am a longtime (almost 2 years) lurker on here and haven't posted much but your questions led me to relate some of what we have learned. First of all I highly recommend the three books that funcoupledayton suggested. We both read all three and spent many hours discussing what spoke to each of us in those volumes. Secondly, we started out with mfm. We started there because I (Mrs) felt that I needed to learn some things before we moved on to playing with women and couples. Mr and I started dating young at 16 and 17. We had been married for 28 years and he was my only sexual partner. Mr was comfortable with including another man in our initial experiences. As we went along we kept talking with each other, kept reading, and kept trying to expand our horizons sexually. While it did take several months, we have successfully navigated our way so far and are comfortable in a wide variety of situations including mfm, fmf, and playing with couples. I am very thankful that Mr allowed me the time I needed to gain confidence and become comfortable. We have learned a lot about ourselves through the journey. Thirdly, we have had lots of discussions about "fair versus equal". We recognized fairly quickly that it was a lot easier to connect with single guys (sheer numbers alone make it a lot easier). Finding compatible single gals and couples is a lot more difficult. In our case Mr was comfortable initially with involving single guys but he found that wanted some of the same experiences that I was having......even though mfm was fun for both of us he also wanted the chance to be with other women. I recognize now that if we would have excluded other women from our playing experiences Mr and I would have had great difficulties since our playtime would have neither been fair or equal. We feel it is very important that you continually talk to each other about how you are feeling as you gain experience. Start the journey wherever you feel comfortable but don't rest in one place if eitherof you wants to see what is around the corner!!!!

I am fine with my husband playing with other couples in an mfm situation and he lets me play as a unicorn in fmf situations. I would not be ok with him playing with you, though. I think uneven, jealous swinging leads to problems. It is a huge red flag to me. I will not play with anyone who is only looking for fmf play for the same reason. They don't have to be willing to play with my husband in particular, they just have to have an openness to sharing. I think your wife should work on her jealousy before having an mfm. There are countless posts about this type of uneven play being hot in the short term and then the primary relationship going up in flames.

We agree with your premise and have never understood how someone would think that a sexual act is somehow "less intimate" than kissing? However, although we may not understand why, some people DO feel that way and we respect them.

Thanks do much for sharing Julie, you have really given me much more certainty and peace in what we have decided to pursue. Allen sounds alot like your ex in that he has told me so many times how he wants to see me with other guys. It took me awhile to accept his sincerity, but now I believe with all my heart that is really his desire. We have talked about it so much. And the thing is, as we have talked and I accepted he feels that way, it turns me on to think of him watching me with other guys. It turns me on alot, lol. I have told Allen this and it adds to his excitement too! Did you feel that way too, aroused by your ex watching? I am now more than ever determined to enjoy it to the fullest and not hold back. Like you said, doing that will bring Allen and I both pleasure.

I'm the same way I hate it. Going through it now. We met an awesome couple at the last social and thought things had really hit off. I messaged them after with our #'s (as promised) and got no response. They were brand new (at least she was) so I'm almost hoping their lack of response is related to her newness (and possibly her own second guessing) and less to them changing their mind about interest in us. We got the impression they were ready to go that night, but the combination of her brand-newness and my not feeling 100% great made us opt out of playing that night. After 0 response in over a week I went ahead and messaged them a second time (just in case the first got lost in the SLS black hole), and still no response. Guess we lost our chance on that one. I think that's one thing I'm hating about socials... it's difficult to play AT the social (or at the connected hotel, rather) and often if you pass on a chance that night, you don't get a second one. So now we are left with nothing but second guesses & self -doubt. Maybe it was them... but maybe it was us

For us, the experience being equal is important or we couldn't do it. We are each having fun with a partner and we stick to same room play so that it's an experience we share. I don't have the same emotions towards being with my husband that I do with other men. Love is not in how I have sex with someone or how I flirt. It's in how we share a life together. It's in every little mundane detail of life, taking care of each other, being there for each other. We get to feel free to be who we are, explore sexuality and sensuality. Accept that in each other and share a journey of exploration and experiences.

On one hand this is all so very complex and I'll tend to overthink everything...unfortunately it's my nature. On the other hand I realize that I'm not perfect, the women aren't perfect, and if either one of us is expecting a "perfect" situation without flexibility and understanding that everyone is different, then there are bound to be problems. It seems that there are some generally good "overall" guidelines to follow, but that there shouldn't be expectations but there should be a lot of "go with the flow and just have a good time!" What I've learned so far in this thread: 1: I definitely need to be less passive and more direct! 2: I should be prepared to go down on most girls we play with. It seems like this is expected / required... especially if I'm going to get any head. 3: I also really need to avoid saying "What do you want" and give some very specific choices. For example, while I'm passionately kissing her mouth and neck I could say: A) "You are so sexy you're driving me CRAZY! I either need to eat you or fuck you or both!!!" How's that? Or, is this also a possibility: B) "You are so sexy you're driving me CRAZY! Either I'm going down on you, you're going down on me, we're having crazy sex, or some combo of all of the above! You pick the order!"

Where's the "like" button?! I really like for the guy to take the lead. I've been with people who have simply told me what to do and that is my favorite situation. It's kind of funny, that with those people I am much more likely to tell them what I want in return or take the lead when we play again. I don't know how other girls perceive it, but if someone tells me, "Get on the bed, I want to ..." it totally works for me. (This is at a point when we are already playing and obviously into each other, not out on the dance floor or something like that).

Us too. One thing I've noticed is that the harder you try, the harder it gets. When early on (before we learned better) when we would go to a club we didn't have the expectation of hooking up, but we did have at least trying in mind. What we've found though is that almost all of the times we have hooked up where when we weren't even trying, so now that's the approach we always take. It's a win-win

We go often just to be with each other.... it is calming to sometimes just go out with no intention to pick anyone up. To just enjoy each other in a setting where we can be uninhibited.

I believe life is a mirrored image of ones self. If you don't like what you see, change that which is causing it. I've always had a strong sense of self awareness. However, my personal image was fogged by insecurity and self doubt, many years, looking in the mirror at myself. This was brought on by others and how I was raised. Swinging didn't change ME. It cleared some of the fog on the mirror so when I look at myself, the reflection of myself, I can say.... Hello. There is nothing wrong with loving who I see myself as, with a sense of humbleness and the will to be the best I can be to others. There is nothing wrong with loving others for who they are. Sometimes, others just don't know what they are reflecting, myself included. When others tell me now, this is how they perceive me. I look in the mirror again, knowing how to greet myself..... With that simple, Hello. Swinging, was a major catalyst in allowing me to change, my self image. If there is any irony. It would be the fact that I'm growing older. I'm actually getting shorter, my sexuality is lessening, my hair is thinner, there are wrinkles and grey showing. Swinging didn't re-capture my youth. It allowed me the happiness, and confidence of where I'm going.....

I'll take a seasoned 50-year-old any time over the fantasy of a young stud. Erin, You really know how to make us older guys feel good. Thanks! Now, your post will be one of my more memorable things!