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The initial excitement passes and the working out isn't providing the instant improvements that she was expecting...you can't lose if you don't play the game. As already said, talk to her and tell her what you told us. Either way, there's something wrong and you should always be able to talk about anything in your relationship (swingers or not). Talk to her...

Neither has bothered me at all either, but I am much more turned on by watching her have intercourse with another man than watching her have oral with him. My wife and I believe oral is more foreplay. We both enjoy it but the goal is intercourse.

Neither bothered me. But no one can tell you how you will react. You have to experience it yourself.

We have a lot of rules but we're just starting out, we're approaching things with a view to getting rid of some or most of these rules as we go along and we're both know we're comfortable with certain things. We've had some knock backs from more experienced couples because of some of our rules , and just to give you the flip side point of view, we never felt put out or insulted or anything remotely like that, in fact we were always grateful that they were honest upfront, one couple have agreed that they would very much like to meet if our rules ever change further down the road. We also are in touch with some couples that are happy with our rules and are more than happy to meet up as things stand. Bottom line is we would never take offense at another couples honesty about rules, sure we've been disappointed a few times that the other couple didn't want to go at our pace but also glad that we haven't been in a situation where the other couple is trying to push past our boundaries, we understand that play time can be a limited opportunity for some and we don't expect them to take a step back for us.

Love/trust/communication: Sounds like you are not as strong in the trust and communication department as you could be. Work more on both of these and find out how she is feeling about what you have done so far and how far she is (at this time) willing to go. Jealousy usually has to do with a relationship not being strong enough, and the initial impression I get ("...have attended a few clubs starting about 6 months ago" and "...she gave a short blowjob while I was fucking her from behind") she isn't into the swinging thing and is doing it to humor you. "I am concerned that this jealousy won't pass, and I will never get her permission."...if she IS only doing it for you, then this is probably true and you won't ever get her permission. What is more important to you: swinging or her? I would pick one at this time and put the other on hold for awhile. Either way, you need to talk to her about this and see where she is in regards to it. Good luck and let us know how things are going.

As long as she isn't judging or outing the two of you, does it really matter? Maybe she's curious or heard or suspected something and just wanted to know. One way to find out is for K to just ask her...

I would recommend Opening Up by Tristan Taromino

I prefer it in me. First choice in my vagina, second in my mouth (I swallow), third in my bum. Outside is ok and somewhat interesting, especially if the guy produces a lot of semen, but I like the feel of his dick pulsing and the flow of his cum.

Oral and intercourse, neither one bothered me at all.

obviously, this is my own experience and the only way for you to know your wife's feelings is to ask her directly. My interest over the years has gone up and down many times. Typically, when I've been disinterested it's due to other things going on putting added stress on me. I mean things like major international moves and job changes, having children, that sort of thing. Big things happen and my interest drops completely. Life calms down and I'm back in the prowl.

I'd suggest you tell her what you told us, or bring her here to read your post. In either case, you need to know what she's thinking. Good Luck!

When it comes to how you feel, there's no real overreaction. You feel how you feel. You have done nothing wrong in your actions nor in your feelings. And I'd guess that the vast majority of women would feel similarlly angry, violated, shocked, confused. This man's behaviour is entirely unacceptable.

I downloaded them all from one of those sites after having no luck finding a legitimate way to watch it.

Before you proceed further I want to apologise for the length of this post. I guess I'm prone to describe minutiae & I'm conscious of my need to 'talk' but I'm also hopeful that somebody may relate to what I'm writing. We caught up with the other couple (I'll call them Harry & Sally) in the bar of the hotel they were both staying at for the weekend. As I mentioned before, we told them we were newbies and very nervous & when I talked with Sally a few days earlier for about 30-40 minutes, she said that it would be absolutely fine if we decided not to play. Sally also told me that while she and Harry had been in a relationship for 18 months, they live in different cities and only caught up every 8 or so weeks. So.... if we didn't hook up there would not be another opportunity for another 8 weeks.... I think - with hindsight - unconsciously I felt a bit .... pressured by that. Anywaaaaay... It sounded to me like they're more like fuck buddies than traditional beaus - in between visits she hooks up with other couples & singles as does he. So, they definitely seemed more experienced in swinging than us and Sally told me they had developed a little community they'd be happy to introduce us to - so we could play with those couples as well. Sally also suggested in our first phone call that after we all hooked up on Sunday night that she would like for us to stay in touch so that she could come over and fuck Bo & I as a threesome - that she was keen to have a "regular threesome arrangement". I felt a bit uncomfortable about that to be honest - it felt all a bit too much too soon. Sally was reassuring me that it was fine if I didn't want to play at all but in the next breath she was offering a regular threesome with me and my husband & as part of their community. Her intentions were good & she was very friendly & nice if a bit forward so I tried to play it cool. I was determined to go into this with an open mind and an open heart. And .... who knows ... Anyway when Bo & I got there, Sally recognised us immediately & summonsed us to her and hugged us both very warmly. She told us that Harry was in the bathroom. There was a 2 seater lounge, a lounge chair and an ottoman type seat. I moved to sit on the lounge with Bo but Sally stopped Bo directing him to sit in the chair next to her (on the ottoman) "Bo I want you to sit here in the chair next to me & Na (me) I want you to sit just there ... (pointing to the lounge) .... Harry will be back in a sec". I replied "um, no, I want us to be on the lounge" but Sally persevered - "right, OK so then let's swap..... Bo you sit on the lounge and Na you sit in the chair" & she picked up her drink & moved to sit next to Bo on the lounge. But I stood firm "I'm sorry Sally but I am nervous & I really want Bo & I to sit together"... Obviously Sally (& possibly Harry) had planned to separate us - Bo to the chair so she could concentrate on him & me to the lounge so that Harry could chat to me. I was a little surprised that she wanted to separate us but perhaps she thought that she should take the lead... Anyway Bo & I were there as a couple to see whether we wanted to play. It felt to me that Sally viewed our 'liaison' as a 'fait acompli' and the drink in the bar was a formality or a nicety before the main event - a foregone conclusion. Sally looked a little taken aback as I think she wanted to get things kicking along but was very sweet, again reassuring me / us. She really was nice if a little pushy .... They both were (nice that is ...). Harry arrived and I gave him a greeting hug & Bo shook his hand. We all chatted for about 20 or so minutes when Sally changed the subject to swinging, asking us why we became involved and what we liked about it. We all talked about what had piqued our interest - for us it was about giving life to fantasies that Bo expressed while we were fucking that revolved around fucking other people. It was a similar story for Harry & Sally - Harry had prior swinging experience, Sally none. They were discussing fantasies and ...... the rest was history. A while later, Sally said "guys the attraction is there for us so we're happy to go upstairs any time you want". We said OK and just kept talking. We talked for a while longer and Bo & I quietly talked to each other. I asked Bo what he wanted to do & he said that he was OK to go upstairs. I said I didn't know yet, that I needed some more time. I was hesitating because the sexual energy just wasn't really there for me with either Harry or Sally. Certainly there was no instant attraction. I know enough though that someone's sexiness is not necessarily defined by looks & I was hoping that I would feel more attracted & more comfortable if I gave it a bit more time. Indeed I actually did find Harry more attractive as the evening progressed. He was very funny, warm, interesting, clever & seemed to have an open heart. I shared a hug with him at one stage that I actually found quite lovely as he was nice & tall & he hugged me tightly. It's important to point out though that although my attraction increased, it was from a fairly low starting point. Interestingly, although Sally was more conventionally attractive than Harry, I didn't find her particularly sexy. I guess you could say I'm bi-curious -> I'm certainly open to stretching the boundaries and it would be nice to experiment if I found a woman attractive. I mean she appeared physically attractive but I didn't get much sexy energy from her really. Bo also later told me he found it hard to connect with her - he didn't feel like he was getting a strong sexual energy from her. Also, and we risk sounding shallow perhaps (shit. Sorry in advance if so ...) but we felt surprised that Sally appeared to have made little effort with her appearance. We met in a very 'nice' bar in a pretty expensive hotel in the heart of Sydney and we had put effort into our appearance - I was wearing a long silk skirt with a loose low cut silk singlet (not too slutty though lol) with no bra underneath that hugged my breasts beautifully, sexy lace undies, sandals, nails polished, make-up, perfume and my hair was worn long and loose. Bo was in a great short sleeved shirt that showed his gorgeous broad shoulders & amazing arms & chest plus fitted pants that showed his long legs & great arse and loafers. It's warm in Sydney so I think we looked sexy and summery. Harry looked nice - he had a crisp white shirt, trousers & loafers. But, I don't know ... Sally had her hair pulled back rather severely and was wearing a loose comfy looking beige sweater that many people might wear watching tv or getting groceries, ill fitting black pants that were too short (& not in a cool way .... we call them 'ankle freezers' in Australia), no make-up (that I could discern) & chunky black shoes. Look. I again apologise if this sounds shallow but isn't meeting a new couple kind of like a first date? We had made an effort to look really nice. It wasn't about her fashion choices, it just felt like she hadn't made any effort - like it wasn't important? Maybe she felt that the drinks beforehand were a quick preliminary politeness before we all got undressed anyway so what did it matter what we're all wearing? And, you know that's fair enough if that was her thinking. Or maybe she just doesn't put much stock in all that. Which is also fair enough. It's just that we respond a bit more to people making an effort to wear something sexy. Anyway, look she had a pretty face and you could tell she had a nice enough body but Bo said he didn't feel much sexual energy, connection or interest from her. Although she did say a couple of times that they were attracted to us and wanted to go upstairs with us. And, she again offered for the three of us to get together at a later date ("or dates" she added) - given Harry would not be there... actually she reiterated this a few times. One offer would have been enough. I was also a little taken aback when she offered to give Bo her phone number so that he could call her.... Ah .... No.... not going to happen. Anyway........ As an hour passed then 90 minutes, I think it became obvious that we weren't into it. I absented myself to go to the bathroom for a tinkle and a think. I was trying to muster the courage to go back & say "right ..... let's go upstairs" but I realised that if I went upstairs I would be 'taking one for the team', or 'lying back and thinking of the motherland'.... That is I would not be doing it for myself or for the union I have with my husband. I was not attracted to them and I did not want to disrespect the trust Bo & I have by going upstairs with them if I didn't really want to. I've been completely honest with everyone in this post so no point holding back now, the truth is that my body made the decision for me and probably gave us a useful 'out'. I had finished my period two days earlier and truly thought it was over but to my great surprise found when in the bathroom that it had returned. I did not have a sponge with me and I started to feel a bit crampy. So. I returned to my seat, told Bo then explained that ... sorry .... no go. It wasn't an excuse... I really did get my period again unexpectedly. Just good old mother nature. Our decision to say goodnight was due to a combination of factors. I think we chose a couple that appeared 'safe' rather than a couple who we thought ... "wow they look really sexy and great". They were really nice people but plain ole lack of attraction played the biggest role in our decision. We know there's much more than just the physical in attraction but there needs to be something. It's hard to tell from photos, messages and phone calls whether you're actually going to feel attracted.. On first impressions, Harry was not really attractive to me at all. But as I said, as the evening went on he became more attractive to me. But would that translate into sexual desire? I don't think so.... Sally looked physically attractive but her presentation was lacklustre so became less sexy as the evening went on. I also felt I had to be careful that I wasn't just going upstairs to make everyone else happy. It had to be for me AND for Bo & I - for 'us'. I was conscious that should I go upstairs with them when I wasn't sure I wanted to - that I could be undermining myself and my relationship with Bo in some ways. Bo says that he trusts my 'no' and my 'yes'. I don't want to undermine that by saying 'yes' when I really would prefer 'no'. I think Bo was better able to put aside his reservations earlier in the night but as time went on he said he lost interest in going upstairs. Not just because he sensed I didn't want to - but for himself. 
It was a really great experience and really empowering for us as a couple. We met them, we had a great chat & decided to move on. We probably, at this stage prefer to meet first - even by Skype - then decide whether to play on another date. We will learn, move on, persevere, keep it light, keep it fun and keep prioritising our needs as a couple. So... we've got a few more things lined up... we're going to our first swingers party tonight (28/10/16) so that will be interesting. There will be 15 couples in a large hotel apartment overlooking the beach. We will go for a perve and see what happens.. Hopefully we will meet up with people we are attracted to. Or maybe something more? We're also going to a new swingers club soon and we're talking to some other couples on the internet hook up website we use. So ..... we'll just see. We'll let you know how we get along tonight. And you know any swinging related experience is part of the process of 'normalising' it for us - or of finding a version of 'normal' that works for us... I think the more couples we interact, meet & chat with, the more swingers parties & clubs we go to, the more we will work out what we like, want & desire and .... don't. Bo has asked me to finish up by saying that the most important thing is that we stay connected as a couple, do what feels great and respect our boundaries no matter what. We have a strong, trusting relationship and we talk about things as they arise. It's not about the other couple so much as it is about us.

I don’t think anything gets in the way of fun as much as a bunch of rules, but that might just be me. I don’t think of it as a rule as much as common since, but we don’t engage in whatever it is that we know the other has a problem with seeing the other engaged in. A case in point would be to engage in something that you refuse to engage with your significant other. I think this is an area that a couple should be cover in the communication between the two of you before you get involved in any of this kind of activities. This is an adult activity and you should be adult enough to tell whoever you’re with, that you are not into whatever that activity is that they want to engage in at the time they are trying to engage in it. The process for us starts with the visual evaluation of another couple. In short do they look like a couple that we might be interested in having fun with. If they are “our type,” we will progress to the communication stage, and just have a vanilla conversation with them. If we have an interest in them and they show an interest in us I will usually ask them what they are “into,” not to find out what all their rules are but to find out what they want to engage in. We are a full swap couple looking for another full swap couple. If they are looking for the same thing we are we will find a place to engage in those activities. If they are looking for something that we aren’t into we will wish them well and be on our way. Swinging to me is a lot like going out to a fine restaurant, you may not know exactly what you are going to have for dinner; however, you do know what you’re not going to have. It’s all about having fun, enjoying yourself, and feeling better for the experience.

Basically, yes. For us, "no kissing" would be a deal breaker. Mrs two4you would break this rule, then shit would hit the fan. So, we'd say "We hate to back out, but we know we'd end up breaking that rule for you, and we don't want to put you in an uncomfortable position".