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So I had a interesting chat with my daughter last night. She's been having trouble dealing with this narcissistic female friend of her boyfriend's, whom she has tried to befriend herself, but who insists on doing everything in her power to drive the poor girl insane. For the record, my daughter is vanilla, and has a bit of a problem with jealousy, so it's really hard for me to not advise her to just let the boy fuck her, get bored with her mud-puddle-deep personality, and brush her off. Get it out of his system, you know? Life is too short for this kind of stressful bullshit. Anyway, long story short, I'm trying to help her deal with this self-focused, poisonous little biatch, and went on to relate a story about my friend. "I could tell you this story," I said, "but...it's...really...like...TMI. So much TMI. Like you won't be able to look at (my friend) ever the same again." "You don't even talk to her anymore, Mom." "I know, but it's really....REAL." "It's okay, Mom," she assured me, "I've seen your and Dad's search history." -- Silence -- I gave her a questioning look, to elaborate. Because I'm sure as hell not going to be the one to flop that one out there on the table. Nope. She wants the truth, she can damn well ask for it. "Swinging?" she said, "AFF?" I laughed, actually not missing a beat. "Yeah. Well. There you go." "So did you and, uh...(friend) ever, uh..." "Oh GOD no." I exclaimed. "No no no no no. There are some rules..." "Oh so there ARE some rules then?..." "Oh yes, there are rules." I said, "One of them is that you don't fuck your close friends." I proceeded to tell her about the nightmare threesome experience my friend and her husband had with a vampiric, soul-sucking bitch who got off on shattering marriages. The point was to outline how destructive narcissists can be, and how relentlessly devious and cunning they are. So after regaling her with that gem, she sat back digesting it, and then said, "So can I ask you a question?" "Sure!" I said. I'm thinking 'This is FANTASTIC!' "I mean, only if you want to! Your business is your business, if you're uncomfortable with it..." "No, I don't mind at all. This is fun, actually!" "Okay." she said. "So, how do you guys do it? Like, how does it work?" She meant, as in, how do we have such a great relationship while fucking other people? "It works really, really well, actually." "Oh." She seemed surprised and hopefully more at ease because of my frankness and comfort with talking openly about it. "It obviously doesn't work for everyone," I said, "But for us, it's been great. You have to be able to trust one another enough to do it. And it's more about wanting to be able to give one another more out of life." That part isn't verbatim, but something to that effect. She wondered aloud whether it might be something that her boyfriend needed. I didn't agree. I switched gears a little, and explained that this is why it's been hard to advise her before, regarding her jealous streak; my first inclination would be to tell him to go do what he's gotta do. Shrug my shoulders and let the little vampire do her worst, because in the end, she still can't touch what really matters between us. My daughter said she didn't think she could do that. I said, then, that she should not. I just know that, for her Dad and I it has more or less bomb-proofed our relationship. "Some other woman can be sitting on your Dad's knee, feeding him grapes, and it wouldn't bother me in the least." She was amused at the idea of it. "I don't give a damn, she can do whatever she wants, but if she's going to be disrespectful of me, that has nothing to do with me. I leave that up to your Dad to deal with." "Like that woman at the restaurant that time?" she asked. I had apparently been too flirty with a woman's husband after imbibing too much wine (100% unintentional), and she decided to get back at me by sitting beside my husband while I was in the ladies room, putting her hand on his leg and giving him the come-fuck-me eyes. When I returned, and saw that my spot had been taken, he looked her dead in the eye and said to me, "Here, Hon, you take my spot." Yeah. My man. She got shut DOWN. Hard. "Yeah, just like that." I said, "I just laugh about it. She can try to weasel in if she wants, and I'm just like, 'Hold on! I'll get the camera!'" She thought it was funny, and I think she was even more pleased at my willingness to talk about it. It has been a big fat-ass elephant in the room for too long. They knew. Of course they knew. But neither half of the parent-child equation knew how much the other wanted to know or reveal. I'm so glad she had the balls to bring it up. She has frequently complimented her Dad and I on our relationship in the past, and I'm sure this was a mystery to her, as she explained she suspected it for a very long time now, since they were kids. Believe me, were NOT indiscreet, we just have exceptionally observant offspring. She explained she had seen me browsing the Swingersboard, and had thought I was looking up swingsets. But she noticed some of the stuff on it was about sex. She had asked why I was on that site, and I told her because I enjoyed discussing the topic with other people. It was fascinating. She wanted to know what it was, and not wanting to lie, I believe I gave her the 10-year-old's version of the truth, which was something along the lines of 'married people who don't believe in monogamous relationships.' I DID lie when she asked if her Dad and I did that, and I told her no. I enjoyed the conversation. We never discussed it again until last night. "So are those your friends from Ottawa?" she asked. "Yes." I said, "We really like them. They're really very nice people." "Huh. That's cool." she said, "Yeah we kinda wondered about that. You know, you guys just randomly going to Ottawa to visit friends or go to a party." Because she knows that's not really 'us'. We've been social hermits for-frigging-ever. "So does your brother know, too--" "--Yeah." she said, "Oh yeah, he knows." Smart little farts. I have to say, I am actually super stoked about this. I have hated having to hide anything about ourselves from our kids. We don't get into the hairy details of what we do in the bedroom - and I have no intention of starting now - but I don't want to pretend like we don't have a sex life. And I don't want to pretend that this is not a part of who and what we are. Because it is, and it's something we both love. It's not dirty. It's not deviant. It's not harmful to our relationship, to anyone else's, or to society. It has been a very positive experience and a deeply beneficial relationship philosophy. I'm hoping we can now be more open with our kids, without having to come up with stupid cover stories that - deep down - we knew they didn't believe anyway.

Yup. What the kids care about is neither who you are dating nor who you are fucking. What the kids care about is the relationship that the parents have with other and, ultimately, why the parental relationship works. They know all about divorce, and loss, and what it's like for those other kids. They look at mom and dad and gauge how things are going. Mom and Dad are, for better or worse, their relationship role models. And yes, that matters. Whether the LS is for them at a particular point on their lives turns out to be immaterial. What matters to them is the security they see in a well-adjusted, loving relationship. Those who have been in the LS for a while can judge the veracity of this next statement: After an LS date, we are typically much happier, affectionate, and playful with each other. The reason is likely that every LS date seems to make us value each other more. What matters to the kids is not that you go out on a date. What matters to the kids is how you behave with each other the next day. Kids pay attention to such things. At least our daughter did/does. We're pretty sure that we are like every other married couple on this board--we occasionally grate on each other. It's pretty refreshing when adult daughter notices and offers in response, "So when are you two going out with your 'special friends' again?"

Is it normal to not have a burning desire for your partner after a romp with others? We have participated in swaps before with other couples and the sex between us in the following days was great and surprisingly charged, but we have never had sex immediately following play with others (I.e same night). When I envision what I'd feel (female side) I don't foresee or feel myself having a drawn affect to the Mr. It's great we had fun, but I just don't see it or feel it in this moment. What is the driving force behind the urgency to have sex with your spouse after they have just been with another?? Am I missing something? Am I not receptive to the emotion enough? Am I blocking something? It seems like this isn't a natural occurance or feeling and it's not fatigue that I envision that's stopping me. It's an emotion

Has anyone else been jealous of their play partners other partners? I can watch hubby with another woman and not feel a pang of jealousy. But I have specific play partners that when I see them with others, I get jealous! Is this crazy or what? Has anyone else felt this way? Hubby says he has had the same reaction with a few of his female "favorites"...

Have you ever declined to play with a couple or played with a couple and had a less than stellar experience and then gave the other couple a second chance later and had a great experience? This recently happened to us and it caused us to reevaluate our selectivity. We should be more open minded and forgiving.

We look for MMF/MFM encounters because I enjoy the extra spice, and she LOVES watching it. However, I need to know ahead of time that he is either bi or curious. We have a regular single friend who, like me, loves giving and receiving oral. And he's been an intimate friend for several years (we like consistency). He was my wife's first solo date. About a year ago, she was entertaining a guy here at home. She had told me that he had admitted to some curiosity about M/M play. I had looked in on them a couple of times and seen them in various stages of play, including her riding him. The next time I looked in, she was going down on him, so I slipped in and we shared his cock for a few minutes before she moved up to kiss and check on him. I kept enjoying his cock. I felt him wrap his hand around mine. Just a minute later, she moved back down and whispered, "he's going to cum".

From other posts I've read on here the general feeling on stuff like this is that it gets easier the more you do it, like it may well be a bit of stage fright or performance anxiety and that will be easier to deal with as the situation becomes less alien and more normal I suppose. To be honest last time we went to a club I took a viagra pill, I don't usually have erection issues but I had a feeling that we may well end up pushing our boundaries further than we had previously and I figured hey, it's one less thing to worry about , now I can concentrate on worrying about if I look fat/sweaty , is my sex face putting people off, did I use enough anti perspirant, should I take my socks off, does that woman the other side of the room mind me staring at her tits? No but her boyfriend is getting twitchy etc Haha

You handled this well. Ours all, now, what we're up to. I believe that you will appreciate "no longer need to explain."

I just posted a whole 'nother thread about this. We're out of the closet: confronted by our adult daughter

Go out to clubs and meet and greets that are couples focused. Talk to other couples together. Flirt and dance as a foursome. There are lots of great couples out there. We know tons of smart/kind of nerdy people who swing. Just work together and you'll find them. I have a whole group of people that I tease about assigning roles from Star Trek TNG for my fantasy orgy. I include a quote from the Hitchhiker's Guide on every swinger pool party invite. I slept with a friend just because they recognized the quote immediately. I'm confident you can find women you'll click with.

I wear them sometimes. I like thigh highs with a garter belt. You can wear underwear on top. They are convenient in the ladies room and for having sex. They look and feel sexy. They cover varicose veins. Some people really like the look and it gets them turned on. I really like the way they feel.