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BuiltForSin is right on here as well. It's a good thing to look at your own actions and take responsibility for them, but your wife needs to do the same - for now the flirting is really irrelevant ( the act of doing this just showed what worth your wife puts on your emotional security ) You have to get that across to her because she is only looking at the surface not the underling problem, so to her it's not a big deal. Honestly if it were myself i would stop all and any swinging - everything , your view is as important as hers and if she can not see that then what will happen next time she gets the thought to do something you are not comfortable with? just keep going until your split up up and the marriage is in the toilet? This is far more serious then some flirting or what ever the case maybe. Like you she needs to take responsibility too. Good luck and let us know what happens. njbm - we are all cool bro. lol

I feel for you OP. If I had the slightest feeling that I was being treated as a third/fourth unwelcome wheel by my wife or she tolerated another treating me that way in pushing me out I would stop swinging right then and there. We have all done stupid things and it is easy to cross a line and unintentionally cause someone pain in the heat of the moment. Reality should take hold after some reflection and conversation. It is not just you that should be concerned for her fun, safety, and emotional state - she should have that first and foremost for you as well. Right now I think you should be thinking of *your* personal state a little bit more and hers a little bit less. She could be doing some long-term hard-to-fix damage to her relationship and it should concern her.

Hey everyone thanks for continuing the input and chiming in on the various replies. No I'm not going to "dump the bitch" but thanks for saying it so I don't in an irrational moment. My 90% comment relates to our swinging life. We've had many good moments and of course the bad. This couple and this one encounter account for 90% of the bad. I made mistakes that night which include not sticking to our plan to work the venue for future playmates, it was a BYOB and when I went to refresh drinks we should have both went and I should have read the signs the other wife wasn't into me earlier and when she got dressed after I got her off I should have taped out her husband. All very newbie mistakes, they were our 3rd encounter, they much more experience. We've sense found out at these events they operate for themselves. They met newbies at the last one and ignored them all evening. However, I am paying for everyone of those F'n mistakes with interest. My wife showed this husband the time of his life at the venue and it's like he's been smitten. His thank you text and can we get together again was sweet and I figured once he talked to his wife and she shut him down for all of us getting together this would stop. Well wrong there as well. Funny thing is the last thing my wife wants to do is meet this man for real. The fantasy will never live up to the reality and as someone quoted on another thread about sexting, "your mouth is writing checks that your ass can't cash". The man and I will have our face time and will be told to totally back off and if we are together at a gathering he has absolutely "no privileges". This was a rough learning experience, but we'll get back on track and work through it.

They were back again today, and even if they were a troll (not saying they are or are not...it doesn't matter), it's always best to treat every question or comment as real and offer the best help one can...what if they are real and looking for help? There is always the chance that a topic can help someone else reading it or reading it in the future. It never hurts to be kind and offer good advice. I would rather find out that whoever this is wasn't cheated on and this is just a made up story, but I'm always going to treat it as real. There's nothing wrong with that and no harm will come from it. Next time she comes, I do hope that she provides us with an update.

So the wife and I aren't getting any younger, so we have to start with the physicals every year for real now. i have a history of cancer in my family, so I get to do the whole prostate exam. I don't have any hang ups about that, nor does she have any hang ups about Pap smears and mammograms. What we are curious about, though - do you tell your doctor you're a Lifestyler? Do they judge? Do you think a male or female doctor would be more accepting?

I think the problem with wanting LS playmates who are friends too is that the expectation of the order of events is back to front in the LS. In the Vanilla one on one dating world you do lots of fun things before you have sex, so the order is meet> find common interests> fuck. In the lifestyle, while one "no play" meeting is expected, most would shy away from a couple who wanted to go hiking before they had sex (because hiking is not the primary purpose you get into swinging) so the order is meet> fuck> find common interests. You will probably find that there are plenty of people who would love to go hiking with you, but they're not going to want to do it until after a sexual relationship has started, and remember many couples with jobs and children and their own friends, don't have all that much time to dedicate to this hobby, so while they might love to go hiking with you, they may be struggling just to fit in the sexy times without additional commitments.

We met our doctor at a party years ago. He examines my wife quite frequently.

So...the English invaded both German and Poland...?

I think you have a right to your feelings, but so does everyone else in the situation. It's probably something that is best for you to try to not worry about. You can ask your husband to reassure you, but you can't ask him to change his feelings about the situation. She is not trying to make your husband a boyfriend and she seems content to play when the situation presents itself rather than pestering you every weekend. I would keep doing what you're doing, maybe play once or twice a year if the feeling is right, be cordial the rest of the time and continue having fun with your other friends. Everyone is different. Some people are very picky. Maybe experiencing one other person from time to time is all she is looking for. Your husband shouldn't feel guilty that it is him. Maybe she'll eventually open up to other people. I would not involve yourself in that project, though.

Luvin eye full, my reading comprehension tails off after the first line. Either I'm getting old or I am used to reading twitter tweets. I think that we all agree that swinging presents us with the opportunity to improve communication within our marriage. My wife says we are playing with gasoline. She has a point.

Kinda the same way as with a single lady I'm wanting to seduce. The exact words & timing varies by person or couple, but at some point you have to get to the point. Often I've found suggesting massages is a good way to say it without saying it.

Three words post.

All you need to do is kiss ((24-1)x2) = 46 frogs and you will find a prince (and a princess) ?

Actually, I do know why that is. When I was young, I was a jock and tom boy. I loved sports, all sports (except golf and basketball)and competed at high levels of many sports. I liked climbing trees, martial arts, building forts, snakes, spiders, dirt, BMX biking, skateboarding, competitive shooting, working on cars…I hated dresses, talking, painting my nails, was Uber-competitive and could out cuss a sailor. My mother made sure that I learned all of the “girl” things like ballet and went to "manners" school but, I preferred to hang out with dad helping him build the cabinets for the dining room or pouring the concrete patio. All of that turned me into this weird mix of being both a very feminine looking woman but, with the competitiveness and confidence of a man. Most of my life I worked in a male dominated field so, my professional and social interactions were with men, sometimes managing several of them professionally. My current career is working with cattle horses, training the more "crazy" ones that other people won't touch. Nothing like 1100 lbs of attitude and muscle that are so good at reading body language that they can almost smell fear no matter how well you think you are covering it up. But, with them, while you cannot be afraid and must have confidence every step of the way, you also must have compassion and treat them fairly by their rules, not your human rules. Try to push them into something before they are ready to go there and you might end up in the hospital or the horse might end up on the meat truck to Mexico. The focus can never be your own ego (too many in my profession are all about proving how tough they are and try to dominate rather than taking the time to encourage the horse to find the right answer for themselves), everything you do must be done for the good of the horse or you will fail them. There is a fine line there. Horses have taught me a lot about humans and controlling emotions. You have to love the horse for what they are. Do what is best for them and then be able to let them go back to their lives with their owners. Most women find me very intimidating at first. My best female friend (a fellow horsewoman) relayed to me that for weeks after we met she was scared to death of me because I "don't take no shit" as she put it but, she is really glad she stuck it out. I don't mind it at all. I like who I am and so does the one person who really counts, DH.

Sorry you had to have a persistent correspondent who was trying to lay guilt or something negative on you. This board is typically not like that, usually very supportive. My wife's friends are mostly male. She, like you, just isn't interested in much of the female conversations, yet she has tremendous relationships with the women who are strong and independent like her. Your husband is a lucky man, good luck to both of you in the future.

First reading you is very interesting, so thanks! Second, I'm curious, have you ever wondered why most of your best friends are male?

We had a similar situation. We swapped with a couple. The man was a sexual athlete. My wife enjoyed it and looked forward to a repeat. His wife, saying Laura had too much fun, told him she would never swing again. He came to our house a few days later to explain the problem, but asked if he could (from time to time) have sex with Laura without telling his wife. Since this was the antithesis of what we wanted from swinging, we showed him the door. Laura made it plain that she would not see him again, and we didn't. You're facing an extremely toxic situation, Ragnar. Deal with it now, first with your wife, then with Mr. Playmate. If you don't, the problem will fester and grow into the unmanageable. That's my opinion.

I have always preferred to go second with my wife when our longterm playmate has a threesome with us. He is a very good friend who we first got to know as a friend and then a playmate. We have been in a poly relationship with him for the the last eight month which has been great.

First and foremost thank you all for your help and advise, I acted inappropriately several times throughout this post, probably why the long pause between now and the last post. There were several folks that implied prescription help would have possibly helped but I believe that's not the case (everything works fine and hasn't had even one issue in that department since) After many long in depth talks with my wife we have not only gotten past this but often joke about how I more or less had my ass handed to me for trying to hard to make things happen when they weren't exactly the right circumstances. We have had several FFM and even once FFFM so I was feeling a little like this was always for me, in an effort to reciprocate we talked about setting up a MMF but couldn't find the right circumstances so we decided to try a couple instead. Unfortunately when we found a couple that she was at least attracted to, I wasn't nearly into the woman as she was the guy. I secretly thought I could take one for the team so to speak, so that I could give her this experience. I should have know that if I wasn't into the woman there might be issues. I usually can get hard just walking past a fence with a hole in it but not this time. This time I was not only not turned on but completely turned off by her (all me, she was trying). I became very jealous as she was having a very good time and I wasn't, this made me feel even worse (why couldn't I just do this for her and never let her know I wasn't into it?). I really screwed this up from the beginning, virtually no communication about what was on the table and what wasn't, no safe words no nothing. We had a breakdown in our marriage that would have destroyed a less secure marriage and had many long conversations about us. We are both in our early 50's and have sex literally every day, we are now closer than ever. We haven't played with anyone else since and am not sure if we ever will but it's not off the table. I'm madly in love with my wife and can honestly say we are now stronger than we ever have been because of all the open honest talks. This was a very valuable lesson in why the communication has to be done first and never rush things. Most importantly if it doesn't feel right for both, wait until it does. Again you all have no idea how helpful you all have been, even the negative input helped me see different perspectives. Thank you all sincerely!