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Yes it was. Well written.

SASS, no problem. One evening we had a threesome play date scheduled with one of her favorites. I understood that he might show up before I got home, but that they would just sit with each other, maybe have a glass of wine, and wait for me before playing. When I got home, he bounced nakedly down the stairs, they had been screwing for a couple of hours. Now, perhaps I wasn't clear enough about my desires. Or maybe she figured I just wouldn't care. It might of been that the other guy wanted some alone time with her and pressured her into changing her mind. Who knows? (Although to this day I'm pretty sure I got her to say she wouldn't play till I got home. But I could be mistaken; I just don't think so.) My wife and I talked about it, she assured me it would never happen again, and (as far as I know) it didn't. Other than that one time, there was never a problem regarding sex with other people that was caused by one of us.

Okay. There is a new update. So my wife and I have had time to actually have an honest and transparent conversation and I think we understand each other better. She knows what my concerns were and I now understand her better. Before me, she had some really bad experiences with her previous boyfriends. But she never really new any better. Her sex life was not that great and she felt like her equipment was broken. She new how to get her self off but even then it took her a while. And to make matters worse, I was not any better then them. It all came down to communication that opened the gates. From the beginning she had told me that she was really hard to please. And to an extent she had proved it during our sexy time. There were a lot of things she would not allow me to do due to being tickled near certain areas. Soft and Sensual she said she had no real feeling and when I go down on her it would take her so long that even she would get frustrated. After a few years, I finally had the guts to come out of the closet to her about my bisexuality. One of her old friends let some information out of the bag that she is a bisexual too. (I know this seems like I am getting of topic but it all ties in, I swear) I had already come to terms that I would not have sex with anyone else again. It did not go as well as I hoped. It was a big shock for her and I get it, it was understandable. I did not think she would react like that since she herself is bisexual. She said that she did not tell me because all the guys that knew, always thought that was a free ticket to threesomes and those were not on the table. Remember how I said that she thought her equipment was broken? Funny thing is that she did not tell me because she thought that by me knowing, I would assume that she just wanted to get with a girl. She assumed that I wanted to be with a guy and would leave her. It took a while but finally she calmed down and realized that I love her above all else and that she is my world. But the sex was still the same. She eventually came up with an idea from her sister that this was a good thing and to think about the doors this would open for her to explore her sexuality and share it with me. And she got excited. Seeing her get excited got me excited. But we were going at it all wrong. Super rushing, and she would dictate to me what we should be writing on our profile for dating. And that is where I saw the red flag. Hence me asking the original question to you all. I am happy to say that we have had a more detailed talk and she started to do some research herself and saw where we were headed. I had told her if she only gave me a chance I think I can help. I found out that since she had a certain expectation of what it normally is, that she did not allow her self to be satisfied. From just talking and being open and really telling all to each other, she started to get wet. Something she normally does not do. This was my ticket in. I know she is turned on and took the reins and did not let her dictate what was about to happen. I gave her SLOW AND SENSUAL and it became INTENSE. She had an orgasm that was not felt before and was shocked to see what can happen with this new form for her. I was able to make this feeling last a little longer for her since I had full control of our tempo. And right when I saw her arching so hard and really getting loud that you could see she was about to explode that is when I became savage and just switched gears and gave it to her fast hard and with no mercy. She lay there quivering. And was speechless. And all she can say after that was "wow, I am a believer". After this we made love a second time and this time she was able to get more out of the experience. Sad to say that after all these years and 4 kids later, we had finally made love for the first time. That was three days ago and now she has been wanting me every night since. And she has been more open about her fantasies. I feel like this is the beginning of something beautiful. We decided that we still want to go forward with the lifestyle and she is very exited to watch me be with a man. But this time we are taking things slowly. We have been changing our profile and it no longer says full Swap. We are not ready yet. We are doing this for the right reasons now. Later once we both feel comfortable we will go to the next step and actually engage. Right now we just want to go to clubs and maybe parties. But mainly to watch and maybe find a couple that is willing to have fun with their own partner but in the same room with us. Having sex while someone else in the room sounds really sexy to both of us. Now what we are truly looking for is a couple that even if they are not interested in us per say sexuality would become good friends with us and maybe mentoring us through this lifestyle. I don't know if such a thing exist but hoping it does. Sorry for rambling but I needed to get that off my chest. It was not fair to just leave this story unfinished. I feel like someone else might come through with a similar problem. And maybe this thread will help them as well. In the spirit of full transparency to my lovely wife who is the best woman in the world and I could not see myself living without her. I am going to link her to this whole thread and she can read everyone's responses as well as my own. That way she can call BS if she sees it. Hopefully she will put in her two cents or opinions in the matter on this thread so that it helps another new comer. Thank you for taking the time to read all this and am very grateful that a forum like this exists and is there to help us out in our new adventure.

Personally, I agreed 100% with the opinions expressed in your posts...you took the words right out of my....euhhh....keyboard.

My family doctor and gynecologist know. Medical records are protected by law and can not be accessed by employers, divorce courts, traffic courts or randomly by child protective services professionals. The best way to get appropriate care is for your doctor to know your risks.

I am taking testosterone therapy (shots every two weeks) and also take a blue pill some times. Helps a lot. Think about the medical aspect. Also, don't know your age, but that may have a lot to do with hubby. Just my thoughts. Reiterate the OP--not your fault.

I think the problem with wanting LS playmates who are friends too is that the expectation of the order of events is back to front in the LS. In the Vanilla one on one dating world you do lots of fun things before you have sex, so the order is meet> find common interests> fuck. In the lifestyle, while one "no play" meeting is expected, most would shy away from a couple who wanted to go hiking before they had sex (because hiking is not the primary purpose you get into swinging) so the order is meet> fuck> find common interests. You will probably find that there are plenty of people who would love to go hiking with you, but they're not going to want to do it until after a sexual relationship has started, and remember many couples with jobs and children and their own friends, don't have all that much time to dedicate to this hobby, so while they might love to go hiking with you, they may be struggling just to fit in the sexy times without additional commitments.

Could it be the social aspect of swinging that is making the difference and not the sex? I know for me and my husband, when we're at home together all week with all the mundane things going on around us we slip into very low sex drives, it's definitely different when we swing and we're both much more turned on, but we get the same effect if we go out for a night on the town with our vanilla friends, or if we take a trip and we're in a hotel room. It may be that it's not the swinging is causing him to get excited, but simply the change in routine. Perhaps take a break from swinging and try to break up your routine with some together time away from the house and the everyday stresses that life comes with and see if that helps.

I totally get the weird feeling you're experiencing, I'm right there with you just reading your post. Here's what I'm reading - She only wants to screw your husband - Because of that if they had their way you would all always play together and do so exclusively To me this would feel not only stifling, but also like they were just asking way too much, and perhaps because of how they reacted the last time you all played together you're feeling pressured to commit to something that isn't ultimately what you want out of your swing experience. I think this is just one of those fundamental incompatibilities that comes up from time to time. They're looking for a steady and exclusive relationship, you're looking to play with multiple people who are also out having their own experiences so don't come across as needy. You can't give them what they want and they can't give you what you want, so why keep trying to force a round peg into a square hole, just stop playing with them (because as they have been so clear about what they want, every time you play with them you're probably giving them hope that you're going to be what they want).

I would find that awkward, if there was a couple and the guy only ever played with my wife I'd be thinking "woah hang on a minute" I'd be worried there was more to it than just feeling comfortable, not sure what the solution is but I guess it's either don't play with them anymore or tell her your feelings. It doesn't really matter whether you're right or wrong to feel the way you do, it's just the way you feel and that's that.

We met our doctor at a party years ago. He examines my wife quite frequently.

lol Wornsilver If you thought that why did you not say hey ease up, For myself i was talking openly and saying what i was thinking - were you? and for the record i had message these two after there last post - to say hey your view point is just as important and that i will note interact with them again ( and no I'm talking to you not them lol ) because when all is said and done we all have the right to say what we think - that's why even though i think your view is lay out of line because you did not say anything when you though what you posted - i still 100% respect your view point. What happens is that we all get so caught up in our own little worlds we some times forget that when asked about our intentions or why did this happen - that most of us get bent out of shape - what i wanted to understand was the why = but to do that you need to ask and talk over the answers - but if you need guilt or some thing to justify it then go ahead my friend.

BuiltForSin is right on here as well. It's a good thing to look at your own actions and take responsibility for them, but your wife needs to do the same - for now the flirting is really irrelevant ( the act of doing this just showed what worth your wife puts on your emotional security ) You have to get that across to her because she is only looking at the surface not the underling problem, so to her it's not a big deal. Honestly if it were myself i would stop all and any swinging - everything , your view is as important as hers and if she can not see that then what will happen next time she gets the thought to do something you are not comfortable with? just keep going until your split up up and the marriage is in the toilet? This is far more serious then some flirting or what ever the case maybe. Like you she needs to take responsibility too. Good luck and let us know what happens. njbm - we are all cool bro. lol

I feel for you OP. If I had the slightest feeling that I was being treated as a third/fourth unwelcome wheel by my wife or she tolerated another treating me that way in pushing me out I would stop swinging right then and there. We have all done stupid things and it is easy to cross a line and unintentionally cause someone pain in the heat of the moment. Reality should take hold after some reflection and conversation. It is not just you that should be concerned for her fun, safety, and emotional state - she should have that first and foremost for you as well. Right now I think you should be thinking of *your* personal state a little bit more and hers a little bit less. She could be doing some long-term hard-to-fix damage to her relationship and it should concern her.

Hey everyone thanks for continuing the input and chiming in on the various replies. No I'm not going to "dump the bitch" but thanks for saying it so I don't in an irrational moment. My 90% comment relates to our swinging life. We've had many good moments and of course the bad. This couple and this one encounter account for 90% of the bad. I made mistakes that night which include not sticking to our plan to work the venue for future playmates, it was a BYOB and when I went to refresh drinks we should have both went and I should have read the signs the other wife wasn't into me earlier and when she got dressed after I got her off I should have taped out her husband. All very newbie mistakes, they were our 3rd encounter, they much more experience. We've sense found out at these events they operate for themselves. They met newbies at the last one and ignored them all evening. However, I am paying for everyone of those F'n mistakes with interest. My wife showed this husband the time of his life at the venue and it's like he's been smitten. His thank you text and can we get together again was sweet and I figured once he talked to his wife and she shut him down for all of us getting together this would stop. Well wrong there as well. Funny thing is the last thing my wife wants to do is meet this man for real. The fantasy will never live up to the reality and as someone quoted on another thread about sexting, "your mouth is writing checks that your ass can't cash". The man and I will have our face time and will be told to totally back off and if we are together at a gathering he has absolutely "no privileges". This was a rough learning experience, but we'll get back on track and work through it.

Let me reiterate: Swinging is a TEAM sport. If one member of the team says no, the answer for the team is no. The other wife said no, then the answer for everyone involved is no. If your wife doesn't understand this, then you should probably step away for a bit until you can both get on the same page. Sure, she is feeling excited at the NRE and flirting with someone new, but you should ALWAYS come first (as she should always come first to you). Hall pass nor not, you need to move on from this couple and find the next couple. There are plenty of fish in the sea and no reason to stay in a school of fish that don't all like each other. This is already causing too much drama and appears to only contain more drama in the future. This shouldn't be about who's right or wrong, or if someone is good or not...instead of trying to pass judgement, just pass on them and move on. If the wife doesn't want to move on to another couple, then you both need to stop swinging until you can both be on the same page when or if you resume.

If I'm being honest here - and I don't want to pass judgment on OP's situation - I think this can go either way. The question is whether this person's motives are well-intentioned or if they've become so absorbed in their own wants that the needs and preferences of others don't matter anymore. People who don't realize they need to change won't change. "My wife feels I'm over reacting and says I'm benefiting from his texts making her horny." Put that in nearly any other context, and it becomes a disturbingly self-involved statement, one where the person making it sees what they do as a boon to the other where the other should be grateful and is wrong to have their own feelings. If this statement were about money (ex. "How come you never cook us dinner anymore?" "You benefit from taking me out to dinner every night because you get to eat at all these great restaurants with me!"), many men would obviously conclude that she was using him. Not trying to inflame OP's situation, we don't have a lot of details and that could be way off-base, but I found it troubling. Most people, even with bad intentions, would make more of an effort to smooth it over instead of just telling him that his feelings are wrong and it's for his own good. Sometimes people take a turn and you find out that you can waste years trying to work out something that they don't really want to work out. Only the OP can know if this is a pattern of self-centered behavior.

People who are married for 43 years don't dump the bitch. They work things out.

We're in our early 60's don't act or look our age. We've been married 43 years. Our first LS experiences​ we're almost mind blowing and so much fun. We're going back to one of those couples this Thursday my wife's birthday to get our mojo back. We've also slowed things down. Sun& Moon we had our talk and I guess I used a combo loaded and none loaded. Mr Playmate not asking and getting permission to continue past the initial I had a good time text has really chapped my ass from the get go. 90% of our not fun LS issues are coming from this one encounter, and it just keeps on giving. That couple has also been married 40+ years and I'm sure when I talk to him he will understand and not want to be the one to cause tension to our marriage. We'll see how that conversation goes.

We generally text husband to husband with other couples. Avoids a lot of problems.

Moon&Sun I need to spend some time with your reply. You make some good points. I do need to clarify some items. The other wife is the the dominant LS half. He's usually shy and takes a back seat. My wife is a world class flirt and for the first time at one of these parties he had a great time. I said in my OP we made a lot of mistakes that night. The girls originally exchanged phone numbers because the other wife wanted to share info about a spa she liked. He got the number from his wife. One issue I have is my wife's​ desire is to flirt and text. She's not even sure she'd enjoy actually being with him for real because it may destroy the fantasy. I keep saying that is dangerous and playing with fire. So when it became known we'd be at a party together things got out of hand because his reality was going to come face to face with her fantasy. This isn't really a jealousy issue as a protective issue. We have men from 3 other couples that I'd have no problem her doing this with. They are friends and I trust them. This was our one meet at party and play couple. Doing this with this couple just has all kinds of bad dynamics associated with it. I offered the 3some and she says it makes her uncomfortable. This is all kinds of F'd up and how can I have her back when I'm being pushed to the outside.

Man show her this tread - so she can see even with different types of swingers this is unacceptable period - hell even cuckolds here have rules and they are out to get humiliation ( ok very stereotypical but you get the idea )

Thank you everyone for your advice it was greatly appreciated. I did come to the conclusion you all did and that my wife and I need to have a good conversation. Because once again last night she defended her actions as being innocent and not meant to hurt me. I lost it, but didn't act on that anger. I just clammed up. I told her several times I wasn't ready to have a discussion because all I had on the tip of my tongue was angry and hateful words. She now knows this is not a subject that can be treated with a "get over it". We'll see how it goes tonight. The cold shoulder is kind of childish, but it was best not to say what I wanted to at the time.

We had a similar situation. We swapped with a couple. The man was a sexual athlete. My wife enjoyed it and looked forward to a repeat. His wife, saying Laura had too much fun, told him she would never swing again. He came to our house a few days later to explain the problem, but asked if he could (from time to time) have sex with Laura without telling his wife. Since this was the antithesis of what we wanted from swinging, we showed him the door. Laura made it plain that she would not see him again, and we didn't. You're facing an extremely toxic situation, Ragnar. Deal with it now, first with your wife, then with Mr. Playmate. If you don't, the problem will fester and grow into the unmanageable. That's my opinion.

Swinging is a TEAM sport. If one member of the team says no, the answer for the team is no. The other wife said no, then the answer for everyone involved is no. If your wife doesn't understand this, then you should probably step away for a bit until you can both get on the same page. Sure, she is feeling excited at the NRE and flirting with someone new, but you should ALWAYS come first (as she should always come first to you). Hall pass nor not, you need to move on from this couple and find the next couple.

Sorry, if I think the other woman is the sex star of all time and my wife does not want to be with the husband, nothing else will be happening. That is how we roll, not right or wrong. Only loophole is at a house party where we can play individually and not couple for couple. Even there, we usually start by playing with another couple.

First, your feelings aren't wrong. They are your feelings and that makes them valid. Second, your wife should respect your feelings. If either member of a swinging couple is uncomfortable, the other should respect it and listen to them.

Your darn right you are - granted the other couple may do this and fine that's them - your real problem here is your wife who is OK with still making you feel this way by NOT stopping the text and cutting you out of it ( that's what i got from your post ) as for You over reacting, Put the golden slipper she's wearing on the other foot and see if she do not have some thing to say about you not taking her feelings into account. You see it's all good for one to have fun but you guys are in this together - now i don't care if it was male or female posting the same would be said. When you two forget who is important in your life then whats the point - if she can not see that it upsets you and can not stop then yes you have a problem a big one. Ask her this is, Is sex with him worth so much that she can not consider your feelings, whether you and right or wrong is irrelevant your her partner not him! and if this was a girl posting about a guy this forum would be up in arms.

I am going to make a prediction--virtually all the replies from the experienced and the wise members of this board will tell you "DON'T DO IT!" They will tell you the potential risks are just too high and too predictably unfortunate. They are the voices of experience and reason, they will be right. Maybe there is a contrary view? What if your "close friends" have as much to lose from disclosure of these activities as you do? "Close friends" don't always stay close and can become estranged, so don't ignore that potential--guard against blackmail by knowing that you are not the only ones at risk. Affairs involving sex are risky, even with just two people, but life would be boring and not rewarding if everyone was unwilling to take the risk. Whatever you do, keep us posted.