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Obviously that hasn't yet worked out for you. It takes patience more than anything else.

Soft swinging is sexual contact that doesn't involve intercourse. You may find someone who is willing to do this with you. Don't be surprised if you find that others are looking for a bit more involvement. You might want to start out by visiting a club and see what goes on. Then go home and talk it over. Have fun.

As a woman I can honestly say that 95% of the time when I fuck a new guy I have a great time, but I don't expect a new guy to know how to push the right buttons so I take responsability for my own satisfaction, I will be vocal about what I want and will even play with myself during because I know what I like. While there are some genuinely bad fucks out there (and the sauna guy you described sounds like he fits in that category) by far most men enjoy seeing a woman excited and having fun.

So I had a interesting chat with my daughter last night. She's been having trouble dealing with this narcissistic female friend of her boyfriend's, whom she has tried to befriend herself, but who insists on doing everything in her power to drive the poor girl insane. For the record, my daughter is vanilla, and has a bit of a problem with jealousy, so it's really hard for me to not advise her to just let the boy fuck her, get bored with her mud-puddle-deep personality, and brush her off. Get it out of his system, you know? Life is too short for this kind of stressful bullshit. Anyway, long story short, I'm trying to help her deal with this self-focused, poisonous little biatch, and went on to relate a story about my friend. "I could tell you this story," I said, "but...it's...really...like...TMI. So much TMI. Like you won't be able to look at (my friend) ever the same again." "You don't even talk to her anymore, Mom." "I know, but it's really....REAL." "It's okay, Mom," she assured me, "I've seen your and Dad's search history." -- Silence -- I gave her a questioning look, to elaborate. Because I'm sure as hell not going to be the one to flop that one out there on the table. Nope. She wants the truth, she can damn well ask for it. "Swinging?" she said, "AFF?" I laughed, actually not missing a beat. "Yeah. Well. There you go." "So did you and, uh...(friend) ever, uh..." "Oh GOD no." I exclaimed. "No no no no no. There are some rules..." "Oh so there ARE some rules then?..." "Oh yes, there are rules." I said, "One of them is that you don't fuck your close friends." I proceeded to tell her about the nightmare threesome experience my friend and her husband had with a vampiric, soul-sucking bitch who got off on shattering marriages. The point was to outline how destructive narcissists can be, and how relentlessly devious and cunning they are. So after regaling her with that gem, she sat back digesting it, and then said, "So can I ask you a question?" "Sure!" I said. I'm thinking 'This is FANTASTIC!' "I mean, only if you want to! Your business is your business, if you're uncomfortable with it..." "No, I don't mind at all. This is fun, actually!" "Okay." she said. "So, how do you guys do it? Like, how does it work?" She meant, as in, how do we have such a great relationship while fucking other people? "It works really, really well, actually." "Oh." She seemed surprised and hopefully more at ease because of my frankness and comfort with talking openly about it. "It obviously doesn't work for everyone," I said, "But for us, it's been great. You have to be able to trust one another enough to do it. And it's more about wanting to be able to give one another more out of life." That part isn't verbatim, but something to that effect. She wondered aloud whether it might be something that her boyfriend needed. I didn't agree. I switched gears a little, and explained that this is why it's been hard to advise her before, regarding her jealous streak; my first inclination would be to tell him to go do what he's gotta do. Shrug my shoulders and let the little vampire do her worst, because in the end, she still can't touch what really matters between us. My daughter said she didn't think she could do that. I said, then, that she should not. I just know that, for her Dad and I it has more or less bomb-proofed our relationship. "Some other woman can be sitting on your Dad's knee, feeding him grapes, and it wouldn't bother me in the least." She was amused at the idea of it. "I don't give a damn, she can do whatever she wants, but if she's going to be disrespectful of me, that has nothing to do with me. I leave that up to your Dad to deal with." "Like that woman at the restaurant that time?" she asked. I had apparently been too flirty with a woman's husband after imbibing too much wine (100% unintentional), and she decided to get back at me by sitting beside my husband while I was in the ladies room, putting her hand on his leg and giving him the come-fuck-me eyes. When I returned, and saw that my spot had been taken, he looked her dead in the eye and said to me, "Here, Hon, you take my spot." Yeah. My man. She got shut DOWN. Hard. "Yeah, just like that." I said, "I just laugh about it. She can try to weasel in if she wants, and I'm just like, 'Hold on! I'll get the camera!'" She thought it was funny, and I think she was even more pleased at my willingness to talk about it. It has been a big fat-ass elephant in the room for too long. They knew. Of course they knew. But neither half of the parent-child equation knew how much the other wanted to know or reveal. I'm so glad she had the balls to bring it up. She has frequently complimented her Dad and I on our relationship in the past, and I'm sure this was a mystery to her, as she explained she suspected it for a very long time now, since they were kids. Believe me, were NOT indiscreet, we just have exceptionally observant offspring. She explained she had seen me browsing the Swingersboard, and had thought I was looking up swingsets. But she noticed some of the stuff on it was about sex. She had asked why I was on that site, and I told her because I enjoyed discussing the topic with other people. It was fascinating. She wanted to know what it was, and not wanting to lie, I believe I gave her the 10-year-old's version of the truth, which was something along the lines of 'married people who don't believe in monogamous relationships.' I DID lie when she asked if her Dad and I did that, and I told her no. I enjoyed the conversation. We never discussed it again until last night. "So are those your friends from Ottawa?" she asked. "Yes." I said, "We really like them. They're really very nice people." "Huh. That's cool." she said, "Yeah we kinda wondered about that. You know, you guys just randomly going to Ottawa to visit friends or go to a party." Because she knows that's not really 'us'. We've been social hermits for-frigging-ever. "So does your brother know, too--" "--Yeah." she said, "Oh yeah, he knows." Smart little farts. I have to say, I am actually super stoked about this. I have hated having to hide anything about ourselves from our kids. We don't get into the hairy details of what we do in the bedroom - and I have no intention of starting now - but I don't want to pretend like we don't have a sex life. And I don't want to pretend that this is not a part of who and what we are. Because it is, and it's something we both love. It's not dirty. It's not deviant. It's not harmful to our relationship, to anyone else's, or to society. It has been a very positive experience and a deeply beneficial relationship philosophy. I'm hoping we can now be more open with our kids, without having to come up with stupid cover stories that - deep down - we knew they didn't believe anyway.

Why is it so hard to find a compatible couple or single lady? I could have a good looking guy over for MMF in an hour if I wanted, but finding a single lady is proving to be impossible!

What about my charm and ravishingly good looks?

Yup, unicorns are hard to find. I actually found one once... that was fun. It can be done. I'm more interested in exploring the "why is it so hard to find a compatible couple" part of the question. Of course, the answer is relatively obvious. Finding one person you hit it off with is hard... finding two people you hit it off with is very hard. Finding two people who hit it off with another two people... that's actually damn hard.

Speaking for both myself and my wife, I think I'm mildly offended.

Something we forget after we've been with our SO's for so long is how much experimentation we did to find out what we like and what we didn't like. I try to keep a mental note of my repeat playmates of what works right, whether it's a more firm or more gentle touch, slow or quick, and in one case, to flick her clit left-to-right versus the customary up-and-down. But the difference there is wanting to know what works, to give your playmate an experience they will enjoy. I can't speak for other guys because I'm the only guy I've even been. But my philosophy is a satisfied partner is more apt to return the favor. That, and feeling her tense up as she's just on the brink of orgasm is one incredibly erotic moment.

You have identified two issues--managing expectations and managing the (swinging) relationship, brief though it may be. 1. Initial expectations in the LS often far exceed what actually happens. Swingers' clubs are not packed with porn stars; house parties are not non-stop orgies; etc. If you change your expectations to "we might find interesting people to play with", you'll likely end up being more selective at play and having more fun. 2. The use of "fun" and "play" is not accidental. The happiest times we have had is with people who laugh and seem comfortable in their own skins. Relaxed, agenda-free, and comfortable making conversation and showing interest in us (and we in them) on several levels. Sex is messy, imprecise, sometimes awkward. But is is also exciting, glorious, and can feel terrific for all concerned with a little flexibility on give and take. Keeping it "light" and playful is a good start. 3. People bring different skills, experiences and anxieties. Some clues for us: does the couple behave like a couple, are they genuinely in love with each other, and do they seem to be on the same page? Are they drinking lightly, if at all? Do they seem to be communicating with all their senses? Does the interaction seem relaxed or urgent and forced? How do they give -- and accept--compliments? It seems to us that our best experiences are with those who seem genuinely interested in us as a couple, and we hope vice versa. Yes, you want a good fuck. The most important sex organ is between the ears. Pleasing a partner starts--and ends--with the right attitude. We see you are from London. Please accept our deep condolences for the horrific events perpetrated recently in Manchester and now in your city. We have many happy memories and will not be deterred from returning soon. Stay safe.

I'm a man and I will admit to a certain ego and being on a kind of power trip -- look at me, guys, I can play this woman like a musical instrument and make her sing. But I also have this innate feeling that in order to play as a virtuoso and to be allowed a repeat performance, I must also have a genuine sensitivity to a woman's feelings. I cannot say what's up with the men your partner has thufar encountered.

To be successful you need three things. Communication has already been mentioned. Work on communicating more and better. The second (actually the first) is love...I'm assuming you already have that. The final thing is trust. Trust is what can take care of the jealousy part. If you love and trust each other then it usually isn't a problem. The way to increase the love and trust is via communication. Keep talking about things and understand that you end up wherever you end up. Just don't do anything that you feel pressured to do (pressure destroys trust). This should be about the TWO of you having a great time. If you aren't enjoying it or only doing it for him, don't be surprised to find things not working. Tat you even visited a club puts the two of you WAY ahead of most couples. But if he is 'fine with' whatever you do, he should also be fine with not doing anything (if that is what you choose to do). The standard 'rules' apply here: never move faster than the slowest person is comfortable with. Never 'take one for the team'. There shouldn't be any rush, if you choose to move forward, enjoy the trip, not just the destination.

Welcome TnT. I'm sure the comments have you pretty discouraged. It's better to hear it straight though. You seem to speak of a 3way as 2 women. If it's all about pleasing you, why not another guy? Does he have the same feelings as you if you were to invite a man? Finding a guy is almost the opposite of finding a woman in the level of ease and choice.

Maybe it would be easier to find another couple and agree on both men watching , but yeah it's going to be pretty hard if you're planning on just being a pillow princess

You might consider hiring a sex worker. That way you can get the experience you want. You won't find a single woman in the lifestyle who is interested in the scenario you described. There are women who enjoy fulfilling couples' fantasies as part of their job.

Don't worry, you're not alone. A lot of people are confused and uncertain when they're just starting out. It's ok. The important thing is to ask questions - both asking others, include your guy, and asking yourself. The key to successful swinging is open, honest communication. That means being able to talk honestly about anything and everything. To use part of your post as an example: if you really aren't interested in being with another woman sexually, you need to be honest with your partner about that. Saying that you are interested - when you're not - just to please him, isn't being honest. It's lying and in the end it will be likely cause far more harm than good. On the other hand, if there is something that you really are interested in doing, but worry how he might react to it, talk to him about it. Be open and honest with yourself. Be open and honest with him. Communicate, communicate, communicate.

Hi PSULioness, I think where you are now was where I was in college in 1973. We did not have or know about STDs in those days. But I am saying you are single and having these sexual experiences. We did then also, but there was no internet to write about it on. I think what is different for you than the swinging people here on this forum is that they are for the most part married and committed to each other for the long term. They have much more at risk to lose than you. You are young and could break up with your BF no problem just move on to someone else. In fact that will probably happen as eventually either of you could meet someone you like more than each other. We baby boomers invented this free love type thing in the 1960s, among the other plagues we seem to have wrought on the country in later years. I wish you both well.

Hi this is the wife. I just wanted to give my side so there is a better understanding of what my husband is saying. My entire sex life has been well, a lie. I had to base what was out there on what I got. It was always hard and to the point. I have heard of slow and sensual but never received it. I was a product of my parents selfishness in a sense. I love older men yet was never shown anything new. When my husband came along, again the pace was set into his pace. This continued for many years until I just didn't want to have sex any longer. Recently we talked about the lifestyle and opening up to each other. It has been exciting. 3 days in a row we had sex. 1st day hard and fast, next day s&s, next day same. I told him I have NEVER felt what I felt those 2 days. I came more those 2 days then our entire marriage. There was a sense of closeness and love, a connection that wasn't there before. I had an entirely new outlook on life and he rocked my world. I'll take that over hard any day.��

Talk to him about this. You need love, trust and communication to be successful. I assume you have the love, increasing the communication usually helps with the trust.

Her and I have talked about her wanting to bring some desire to her and her husband's bedroom. She said she wouldn't mind seeing him with someone else and he has flat out said he would swing so I know they are open to it. I'm just not sure if they are with us. Heck, they may be thinking the same thing. We did play a game that got kinda wild one time. She blew her husband in front of us and her and I kissed but that is as far as it went and we were all drinking pretty heavily. I guess I worry about it being so close to home. My husband is a DR and we need to be very careful. Then again this couple is in the same boat with needing to keep things private. I guess we just need to play some more games and see where things go maybe.

There is some risk to a friendship when swinging is introduced. You must weigh that risk for every couple with whom you consider swinging, friends or strangers. My late wife and I didn't swing with strangers. The less you know someone, the more likely a problem will surface. One problem we didn't want to surface was a Sexually Transmitted Disease. While swapping with friends does not totally remove that possibility, it does give a couple the opportunity to access the risk. We chose our play couples based on their exposure. If their marriage was strong and their communication developed, we communicated with them and assessed the likelihood of their being offended by learning that we played. If there was a possible problem, we didn't ask. It's not likely y'all will find a couple who have never slept with anyone else. We did, once in our twenty-seven year marriage. (30 years together.) My advice is to get to know the other couple well. Learn how they think. Consider the possible pitfalls before asking. When you ask, don't invite. Learn about how they think. Laura's favorite way to open the conversation was to ask, "How do y'all feel about swinging?" That question does not ask for a decision, but an opinion. Learn, learn, learn. I wish y'all the best of luck! Alura

If they ask, we will tell, but from past answers to other (non-related) questions, I'm pretty sure that they won't ask because they really don't want to know.

This has been us, too. Our daughter and I got finished talking and got ready to go back in the house (we had been sitting in the truck in the driveway, having just gotten back from the store), and she said, "Oh God. I have to go change my shirt; I'm all sweaty from asking you about that!!" LOL She was more nervous about it than I was. She said she wasn't sure how I'd react to her bringing it up, so again, kudos to her for having the brass to do so.

We were regular attendees at a club in the northeast for years. They would periodically have a contest where they would put a sheet up on stage. The sheet has a number of waist high holes and guys would get behind it slip their dicks through the hole and women would try to identify the guy only by his dick. It was a lot of fun and Mrs Doc got to work a lot of penises to erections! One guy was absolutely HUGE, garnered a lot of attention, and got a lot of play time. Interesting though, he seldom got replays with any of the ladies we know, in fact, as time went on, he got fewer and fewer opportunities and eventually disappeared from that club all together. The consensus was that he had no personality or finesse and simply got hard and pounded away until he came. The ladies had begun to refer to him not by name but instead called him simply, "the dick". Size probably does matter at least initially, but if that's all the guy brings, dick dimensions rapidly loses its attraction.