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It's encouraging to see a Pagan represented. I know that in TX a large segment of the swing crowd is Christian, even if non-practicing. Most of the Pagans I know that are open gravitate towards polyamory. Although, at the one Samhain that I went to a group that I was introduced to spoke about hall passes. I wasn't told they were in the lifestyle, but....I caught the vibe. I thought the 20 somethin' daughter of the head guy of that social group was waiting for me to ask her to go walk in the woods, but I was reluctant to ask. It was very titillating, for sure. I have swung with couple that had a bible on the night stand as we enjoyed double vaginal putting two cocks in her. Having been Christian in my past, and a cowboy, I knew exactly how to get along with them. I had to move for work and regret not hooking up with her a lot more. After that first threesome to vet me, their agreement was that she could play alone with me after a casual lunch. Anyway, it'll depend on your state and region as to how common it will be for other swingers to value a spiritual belief, and what type. Christianity will be more common than people would first suspect because it is most common in suburbs and small towns, where there is more swingers. Very urban people sometimes swing, but are more likely to be poly or "just open".

We have told some of our good friends. Most if not all have been very supportive and interested in hearing the stories. The ones that don't seem interested, we don't talk about it around them. None have gotten weird thinking we would try to include them...they're such good friends we wouldn't.

In the mid 90's, in my mid teens, it was rumored that one of the popular kid's in school parents were swingers. I may have read the term in a Penthouse magazine before that. I'm not sure. Then, by the age of about 21 I'd been in an adult store several times. On one of these visits I saw a small simple zine on a shelf called "Bayou Swingers". I was thrilled and thought it would likely have people in it from the bayou that I lived near. Well, I was wrong. The people were from Baumont, Tx on east to Pensacola, FL. I told a couple buddies about that. They later told me their uncle found a website called Adultfriendfinder that had swingers from all over. Within a year I had bought my own laptop. A few months later at the age of 22 I met with a couple for the wife's pleasure. I hooked up with them about 5 times. They were swingers of 20 years, but the husband had muscular dystrophy by then. She was 39, then 40. I had sex with her on her birthday. Adultfriendfinder worked well enough for me in the early 2000's.

Coincidentally, my husband and I had a related conversation a few days ago. He said that, as much as he enjoyed being with other women, if he could have sex with only one woman he would always choose me. I feel the same way about him. Intimacy is a major contributor to sexual satisfaction, and neither of us could have the same degree of intimacy with a temporary play partner that we have developed with each other over decades. On thee other hand, swinging and hotwifing has exposed me to a wide variety of men of different physical attributes, races, attitudes, and sexual skills. From a purely physical standpoint, I have had mindblowing sex that far exceeds what I get from my husband. I have discovered sexual activities and likes that I can teach my husband. Thus, sex with my husband and sex with other partners are complementary. Having one kind of sex does not mean that I am dissatisfied with the other.

Well, it really depends on how much of a relationship you're looking for. If you're talking "we all move in together and look after each other's children" then you're firmly in polyamory territory. But if you're looking for "we're good friends who care about each other, see each other once or twice a month, maybe vacation together and like to screw" you can definitely find that within the swinger community.

I of course agree to each their own....but this thread made me think...I tried to remember how overnight stays worked through the years in the various groups I was part of...so I called a few LS friends, and their memories were unanimous, not one couple that did overnight stays or mini-trips with a lover, survived. At first it seemed to work fine but eventually the partner enjoying that freedom would hit it off big time with the single man or woman, being by themselves would allow them to develop feelings and destroy the primary relationship. I know for men who prefer MFMs, hotwifing or cuckolding, knowing that their wife is for the entire night or a few days alone with her lover creates very intense pleasure and emotions that they enjoy, but it is something only couples with uncommonly strong bonds can survive.

We aren't cuckold, but on occasion Tony likes to just watch me and a playmate enjoy each other. We used to have a couple friends we knew well enough to let them go bareback with me. To me those were some of the hottest times. When we did, Tony loved eating the cream pie, and sucking my juices off of our friend. He's lately been wanting me to have 2 friends play with me while he watches. I'm sure we can find willing participants, but won't be anyone we know enough to go bareback. He's often told me he'd like me to do a gangbang where he'd clean me up after each one, but I think it's not quite a reality.

I know that the religion topic doesn't often arise among swingers but I've seen various groups in other adult oriented social networking websites related to "religion and swingers" or "religion and bdsm" or "Christian swingers" etc. Maybe it's worse to emotionally covet your neighbor's wife versus just getting permission from your neighbor to physically fuck his wife... ...though it is exponentially worse to give the neighbor's wife a foot massage without his permission. (Of course, some of the wording of that commandment is probably from the days when women were considered to be the property of the husband so the permission idea could be a moot point.) Regards, econobiker: Guilty of attending the earliest Sunday morning church service while still hammered after being up all night at a drinking party on an Atlantic ocean beach. Summertime, drunk, sun rising, Sunday morning---> church. (It was a short 45 min Catholic service- totally couldn't have made it through a Protestant service plus Sunday school!) Am I going to "hell" for doing that? Don't know, however, the bed spins and room spins I felt later that same day made me feel like I was already there.

I was born (1958) & raised in a Unitarian Church (now Unitarian Universalist, or "UU") in the south. I was away from it most of my adult life, and in the past 5 years or so have tried to reconnect to that. "UU" is not to be confused with "Unity", which is something entirely different. In the 80's I studied Yoga pretty intensely for several years. (Yes, not the casual gym style classes.) Had some serious teachers, read a lot of books, meditated, etc. I still carry that experience with me in many ways today. Swimming is my main "meditation" now, and is a lot like Yoga in many ways. Being a "UU" makes it pretty easy to reconcile a lifestyle like swinging. UU's are a very open-minded and liberal bunch, for the most part. At least the parent organization (uua.org) fits that description, for sure. UU's very openly support and offer a religious home to the LGBTQ community, so "Polyamory" or "ethical non-monogamy" are not much of a leap for them (compared to most "religions"). As a UU, you are free to pretty much believe whatever you want, and do whatever you want, as long as you are not hurting anyone. My view of "God" is more of an interconnection between all beings and things. A sort of Universal Life Force if you will. (So yeah, "May the Force be with you.") :"> That what we do, positive or negative, affects everything around you, and beyond. (Call it "Karma", whatever.) Being a lowly human though, I frequently "slip" (in attitude anyway). But I generally do a decent job of "basically not being an asshole". "My Karma ran over my Dogma" To bring up a movie reference... "I belong to the Church of Baseball." Bonus points if you can identify the source without looking it up.

There is a UU America Poly organization and we have pamphlets about it in our church. There are some openly poly people in our fellowship. I have discussed non-monogamy and my relationship with people in a small group. I don't use the term swinger initially when talking to people, I say open marriage or ethical non-monogamy because that seems to generate less gasping and fanning. I actually found the UU church because of a member here on swingers board!

Neo-pagan is probably the simplest answer. My wife is UU.

We find the Universalist Unitarians appealing.

We practice swinging religiously. We are both Jewish by birth, atheists by choice.

May I ask what faith you are? I am Unitarian Universalist which is a very open minded community. Some people within our fellowship are Christian, Jewish, Pagan or Buddhist, but most are humanists or atheists.

I don't think there is any guessing about this. You nailed it. That is exactly where I would be too.

My wife had told me the the men in our swinger lives share one notable kink that shows only when alone with her. In her words, "they go straight for my butt." She declines but some will nonetheless ask again. The women seem to never request kinky things from me

Personally, we prefer a large quantity of quality.

I will say that my foray into what I'm calling polyamory was based on a "quality over quantity" metric. I wanted a connection, a friendship and the possibility of more than a one time fling. I got it with someone who calls what she does polyamory rather than swinging. I confess, for me, the line between the two concepts is blurry. The hard and fast distinction that poly is about emotional bonds and swinging is about casual, no-strings-attached sex isn't so hard and fast in reality. My "poly" relationship is pretty much a friendship with casual sex, while I know more than a few self-defined swingers who only swap within a small group of friends. Meanwhile, in my experience, the basis of a successful poly relationship is openness, honest and communication, just the same as the basis a successful swinging relationship. The more I learn about both "worlds" the more I see similarities rather than differences.

I definitely gotta agree with the previous posters about "bonding" with those folks as you spend the night together... But if what you're looking for is more of a polyamorous "relationship" with this other couple -- then that's cool. If you're just looking for a casual encounter with them with only a casual "friend"-like connection - this can get tricky

Susan here-- It can take sex to a level of greater emotional engagement. This would seem to lend itself to polyamory. Ed and I did this twice with the same couple. We still Play with them, yet we realized that solo overnights were creating an emotional bond on a level we did not want to deal with. They also realized the same thing. I have my source for love, I married him.

So would that be like a vanilla looking at us same-room swinging and saying that something must be missing in our marriage and that we are sure to self-destruct since we are swinging??? If that is what you are getting at, I get your point. I guess I see things like separate dating and house swaps etc as a higher level of swinging and one a little higher risk. Maybe I'm wrong and maybe I'm right about that but even so I still think my concerns and advice are valid. Let's say it is a 'higher level' of swinging (if there is such a thing), would it still not be valid advice to suggest that people closely examine their rationale for going to a higher level as well as to examine the rationale of their potential playmates? I'll put it this way, if someone was considering going from monogamous vanilla life to starting to explore same-room swinging, my advice to them might be worded a little differently but my message would be essentially the same. Keep your eyes open, follow your gut and examine your motivations as well as the motivations of your potential playmates. If something seems wrong, it probably is.

We are a same-room couple so you will have to take this with a big grain of salt. Since this is a long time, established swinging relationship the chances are that a one time all night swap probably won't cause any immediate harm. However, I do agree with The Fuse, but what is more concerning to me about all night house swaps is not only that it 'can' encourage bonding but more important is that I think the reason people want to do this is because they 'WANT' to experience bonding and want to seek a deeper relationship and a deeper level of intimacy. They are actually seeking it out and people usually find what they seek. What I think is important here is what are people's motivations for doing this? Is it just to try something new and different or is it because they are lacking intimacy and bonding in their own relationship and now they are seeking a substitute? I am not saying that is necessarily all bad, but I am saying I think it is important to found out everyone's motivations for doing this and determining if you want to deal with the fallout of their motivations or not. This kind of thing does work for some couples and they do it with some degree of regularity without any ill effects. However of all the couples we have known over the last several years that have split up almost all of them were dating/playing individually in this manner before they split. We can all make chicken/egg arguments here in whether they were on their way to splitting in the first place but we have seen this way too many times not to see that there is some form of correlation. My advice is to look into their motivations for wanting to go to this level and determine if you are ok with this. If they are looking for some deeper intimacy that is lacking in their relationship do you want to be the ones to fill that void. Also take a hard look into your own motivations and determine if this something that you think is a positive thing or potentially a detriment down the road. If you are going to try it at least keep your eyes wide open and listen to your gut.

The truth is, Herpes has not been studied to the same degree as many other viruses because it is not viewed as a significant public health risk. It does not result in death. It is asymptomatic in the majority of infected humans. And, because our society has been largely monogamous, the threat of significant spread in somewhat limited. However, here is some of what is known.... The virus, when it takes hold in a human, resides in the nervous tissue at the base of the spine. When an outbreak occurs, the virus spreads along the nervous system and, in some cases, results in open sores in the genital area (not necessarily on the shaft of the penis or in the vaginal canal). The virus is believe to be passed by skin contact in the genital regions and mucous membranes of the lips and mouth (probably because the large number of nerve endings in these regions increase the number of channels for the virus to invade the body and take hold). Accordingly, condoms provide varying degrees of protection against contracting the virus. There are various theories as to why the disease can become chronic (reoccurring). I subscribe to the theory that the limited blood and lymphatic flows at the base of the spine limits the body’s immune response in that region inhibiting the body’s ability to completely eradicate the disease. All that is required is that a single virus remain active (live) within the body for there to be a risk of reoccurrence. It you have antibodies, it means that some amount of virus has at some time entered your body. Thus, you have been infected. However, it is possible to be infected to such a slight degree that the disease did not "take hold" in your system (you carry no live virus today). Also, it is possible that even if you have an outbreak, your condition will not become chronic. Or, that your body's response to an outbreak will be sufficient to keep the virus from making it all the way down the nervous system to the skin (thus, no symptomatic outbreak). Most symptomatic HSV sufferers describe a "tingling" feeling which proceeds development of a skin sore. This tingling feeling is believed to be reflective of the involvement of the nervous system in the spread of the disease to the skin. Accordingly, symptomatic sufferers who recognize this tingling can reliably predict the onset of an infective outbreak. However, the best research today suggests that a large percentage of HSV sufferers, while potentially capable of passing the disease, suffer no outward symptoms at all (or, if they had such symptoms, did not recognize them for what they were). For diagnosed Herpes sufferers, there are now drugs which inhibit the virus’ ability to reoccur. It has been my experience that Swingers like to view themselves as generally enlightened and non-judgmental. However, in the case of Herpes, this is simply not so. I know a number of couples who carry the Herpes antibody including some who still report recurring outbreaks. A few are open an honest about their infection. Others remain underground. It is easy for those on this board to express the view that swingers should be open an honest about their condition. However, Herpes carries with it a stigma in the swinger community that spreads much faster than any virus, with much more debilitating results. If one is open an honest about having the disease, in my personal experience, word of their infection quickly spreads. While everyone within a local community may not play together, almost everyone talks. In short order, everyone knows. Then, if others choose to play openly with that couple, suspicion spreads. What possible reason could someone have for playing with an infected couple unless they were infected, too. Guilt by association even if that couple has done their research and come to the conclusion that they are safer playing with someone who knows they are infected and takes all reasonable precautions over playing with someone who may be infected and does not know it. Herpes is to the swinger community as leprosy was in biblical times. So, the majority of infected couples we know do not openly discuss their condition. If they are not suffering the tingling of an outbreak and have no sores, they play just like everyone else. Moreover, it should be no shock that people do not ask to be tested for the antibodies. What use is knowing something that you don’t want to know in the first place. Better to be able to swing without knowledge of your true medical condition than to know something which you may be unwilling to deal with anyway. We have stopped playing with unknown new couples because we despise the hypocrisy of the swinger community at large. We continue to meet friends that we have previously made and who know of our condition (only I have ever had outbreaks, but my significant other is positive for the antibody, which is no surprise). We also have been introduced to others privately with whom we will agree to play. But, we no longer go to clubs, etc. But, be forewarned. The person sitting across the table from you could be an HSV sufferer. There is at least a 25% chance of that being true. The vast majority of the time, that couple will not know that they are infected (and does not want to know). As a result, they will be unable to discern whether they are at risk for spreading the disease to you. In those limited cases that you come in contact with someone who is a HSV sufferer and knows of their infection (but is not disclosing it to you), take solace in the fact that they are far more likely to know if they are infectious. By the way, when you get Herpes, you should know that the person who gave it to you probably had no idea they were infected or contagious. Don't fool yourself into believing that someone had to be a lying sneak in order for you to be infected. Happy hunting!

I went through a little phase of being extremely scared of contracting herpes a couple of months ago so I did huge amounts of research. I think I have to agree with a lot of what is being said here...it's not as big of a deal as it originally seems. I don't think I'm now as scared of it (as long as reasonable precautions are taken) as I was. I think the thought of contracting it scares me more because of what it might do to our little "hobby" which we've really been enjoying! In other words, I'm not as afraid of us contracting it because of the actual consequences of the rash, but what it would mean for future play, which we'd really like to continue One interesting little tidbit I came across during my frantic researching involved a potential cure for herpes that some researchers think is on the horizon. It would involve actually flushing out the virus so it could be killed. Right now, what is so frustrating about herpes is that it hides in the nerves so well that it can't be killed. If they could get around that little aspect, it would be curable. Of course, no one knows how soon a cure may come about, but it was interesting.

I have read everything I could get my hands on regarding the subject and one thing is pretty clear, I don't think anyone can tell you what the real percentage of infected people is. As far as testing goes, you can get both a false negative and a semi-false positive for HSV. What I mean by "semi-false positive" is, the blood tests done to detect HSV can only prove you have been exposed to it, it can't tell you if you are infected or not. It is possible to be exposed to it and have antibodies in your system, but not be infected in the sense that you could have an outbreak or pass it on to someone else, from what I understand. This is the reason why the medical community is so reluctant to test for it, the tests don't really mean anything. That is probably also the reason why nobody really knows how many people are actually infected. Another thing to keep in mind, while a couple of studies have supposedly shown that it is possible to asymptomatically shed the virus, in other words to infect someone while showing no symptoms yourself. The general consensus among researchers is that this is either not possible or extremely rare. Most believe that shedding of the virus occurs from a couple of hours before obvious symptoms of an outbreak occurs, until healing of the outbreak is past the scabbing stage. In those cases, it is believed that the person suffering the outbreak can tell he/she has an impending outbreak before he/she actually starts shedding the virus, as it is said that he/she will experience what is most often described as a tingling or itching sensation in the area where the outbreak will occur well before shedding starts. Keep in mind that in most of the studies that the claim is made that asymptomatic shedding is possible, that conclusion was based on interviewing the subjects and asking them if they saw any signs of Herpes. I don't think this is a very reliable method myself, as I have seen people at clubs before with cold sores on their lips and was surprised how few other people even noticed it. That is why I am a big advocate for oral sex as foreplay, (alright, I admit it, that isn't the only reason) it gives someone who knows what to look for a chance to check the other person out for the visual signs of HSV before actually touching genitals. Finally, my personal feeling is that if HSV was as prevalent and as easy to contract as most of these so called "informational" reports would indicate, a lot more of us would have active Herpes than seems to be the case. The fact is, if the numbers were even close to being what is commonly thrown around on the internet, my wife and I should be infected, yet we are not. Why is that? My feeling is that either not as many folks are infected or actively shedding the virus as is often estimated, or it is much harder to transfer and contract the virus than is implied, or swingers are just a lot luckier than the average population. Whatever the reason, I for one, have decided while I will be educated and observant with potential play partners in order to avoid contact with it, I am not going to lose a lot of sleep worrying about it. Also keep in mind that it is rare for someone to have a severe case of herpes, enough to have more than a couple outbreaks a year. In other words, odds are pretty good that if you happened to play with someone who has herpes, it is a pretty good chance they would not be shedding the virus when you were playing with them, and therefore, you would not be at risk.