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Not much time, so a quick update; more if anyone asks. Clair has found the solution to our (the three women's) desire for more sex (male sex) than hubby and Red have been giving us. Since Clair is the only one of the adults in the family that is a stay-at-home parent, she has the opportunity to interact with other moms. One woman ("Becky") confided in her that she has totally lost interest in sex and feels sorry for her husband ("Frank") because she only occasionally and reluctantly gives in and puts out. Over the weeks and more with discussion (actually, Clair is a skilled listener), Becky said she wished her husband could find someone she felt comfortable with who would give her husband unattached sex. Clair slowly revealed some of who we are and our family to see how she would react. Becky was open minded and accepting of how such a thing could work. We all got together socially a number of times, then after a discussion among our family the question was posed to Becky whether she would consider Clair, Lora and me suitable partners for Frank. Long story short, it has all worked out. We feared that Becky would have regrets once the sex began, but she is very positive. She comes over to our place with him sometimes or is at home when one of us women visits their place. Frank, of course, is quite happy and has been persuaded to engage in some group activity with us as well. Goes to show, there's a solution for just about every problem.

Congratulations! Good judgement emerges from unhappy experiences. The lessons of life--and the lifestyle--are often hard-won yet help in so many dimensions. Blessing to you both.

Well, we decided to get back in the saddle. Life is good. Thanks for all the good advice!

Club 51 was purchased by another owner and became Pleasure Palace 51. The club has gone a complete overhaul the last few months. It has became far more active and is currently hosting parties every Saturday night with themed events.

I was looking around our archives and found an old thread - Whoring around in virtual Babylon - by our friend Spoomonkey. He was contrasting the differences between swingers' and vanillas' relationships, and it was not good. Not good at all. For the sake of one, single, simple - and IMHO - ridiculous rule, they allow fear and jealousy to creep in and corrode their emotional intimacy, and to add insult to injury, they think jealousy is actually a good thing! They use sex as the yardstick by which they measure the health of their relationship. Begging your pardon, y'all, but I refuse to cheapen something as unspeakably beautiful and sacred as my marriage by measuring its worth with a body function. Sex is the medium, not the message. It's a tool to be used, not put on a velvet pillow, up and away to collect dust with the rest of the fine china. So pardon us for using it as such. Pardon us for defining our relationship as we see fit. Never again will we let fear of The Other Man/Woman hang over our heads. We dragged that bogeyman out from under our bed, clawing at the floorboards, we slapped a saddle on him, and put the spurs to him. You work for us now, bitch! We had gone out with our neighbours in the boat some time ago. I was sitting up on bow in front of the window and the gentleman half of the couple came up to sit with me and have some conversation. I was sensitive to the fact that his body language was very...engaged-seeming, sitting forward, not worried too much about the fact that his feet were touching mine. It's not a big deal to me, but to a vanilla? I just have to be so much more careful about how such things are perceived. The conversation was, of course, completely benign, but Mr. intuition told me just this evening that the Mrs. was quite unsettled as he sat with her behind the windshield. "She was really scared." he told me. "Her eyes were really big and she said, 'I can't even hear what they're saying!'" I can barely remember what that kind of fear felt like. I really don't care to remember it anyway. A chapter in our life to which we have gladly said goodbye.

When I think about it, I would have to say this is one of the greatest benefits we have experienced in swinging, that freedom to look at and talk to other members of the opposite sex without it being some big damn deal that you hit it off with someone and laughed at his/her jokes, gave them an appreciative look, etc. All of those things that cause big issues to some/most vanilla couples, they are not an issue. We still both recognize that we have boundaries of course, and we totally respect those because we respect each other, but the whole walking on eggshells things every time you are around someone of the opposite sex, to not have to worry about that is pretty damn liberating.

We have never met a couple on line. We are fortunate to have started this with friends and those friends have other friends that we have met. So many say don't play with friends, we have found it the best way to enjoy what we do. I don't know how people look at pictures read profiles and decide to meet. We have looked on the sites. It is so obvious that most are not real. The least a couple who truly is real should do is post a dressed picture of both of you together. Maybe some are attracted to up close pictures, we just get a chuckle from them. For those who think it is only husbands pushing their wives, for us it was my wife who pushed. It was with her best friend and husband. For us the best way to meet new people is to be introduced by people you already know.

Yes we have tried things we have learned from our other partners...yes we have found our sex much more intimate...yes we have a lot of sex after we swing. Frankly it has been a really positive experience!!

Good for you guys for getting back in. We slowed things down this year. Less but better experiences.

I kind of look at swinging separately as the something that should only be considered when things are just perfect. If there are any soft spots in either your relationship or your swinging life, then doing hall passes are best put off until you have those soft spots repaired to 100% solid. In this case, there are some things that you aren't satisfied/happy with, and so you need to work on those first and foremost before thinking about expanding your swinging horizons. It sounds like you realize this, but he may not, or else he does and just wants to look past it to get what he wants. I'd suggest taking a breather from swinging entirely until you can rebuild your relationship as a couple, including your sexual relationship. Once that is rock solid again, then there's always time to talk about hall passes.

My husband and I have been together for a long time and have developed a rich and varied sex life. Part of the credit goes to our play partners. Other men have done things to me that have so thrilled me that I have had my husband do them at home. Or they have asked me to make moves on them that I have later tried out on my husband. The same is true for my husband, who has brought back moves from his swinging experiences. Of course, some activities work only with specific partners. Still, our marital sex has definitely benefitted from our extramarital experiences.

We have been to that club. As clubs go, it is very nice. If you run into someone you know, they are there too. They are unlikely to tell anyone that you were there, because it will reveal that they were there. We cal. This is known as mutually assured destruction.

UPDATE: Wow, guys. This has been way easier than I anticipated. First, I was finally able to get Kasidie to update my profile to single male. I agree with 2NoLimit that it would be creepy to have a single guy with a couples profile. Glad thats over! Feel free to check it out and give any feedback on the profile itself - buddyluv1980. I've also now met 2 couples and played with an absolute knockout last night- my first MFM! It was fantastic and they spoke very highly of my demeanor and how I handled being the extra male. Oh God it was so hot. They promised a validation soon as well, which should increase my odds even further. I've also been on 2 dates from singles sites. But whats even better, to me, is the unicorn I met. She is amazing and freaking adores me so that has been super fun and getting better every day. She thinks it's hot that I played last night and the four of us are now talking about meeting up together. She may not be a Unicorn for very long. So, yeah, life is freaking fantastic right about now. As far as the divorce goes, 3waypleasure, there is no custody battle because we never had kids. Just the dogs and a turtle. She gets the turtle, I get the dogs. Divorce papers are already filed and they are way more than fair to me. No judge. No court appearance. Super clean and easy. She knows and is ok with the fact that I'm a SM in the LS now and she thinks I'm going to be great at it. She still made me a birthday cake and her parents still got me a gift. I'm telling you, this is the coolest divorce ever. Kikonkrome - I will be seeing a therapist. That was good advice, thank you. Sorry if I jumped you a little bit before. The wording just rubbed me the wrong way, but I know your intentions were good.

So I had a interesting chat with my daughter last night. She's been having trouble dealing with this narcissistic female friend of her boyfriend's, whom she has tried to befriend herself, but who insists on doing everything in her power to drive the poor girl insane. For the record, my daughter is vanilla, and has a bit of a problem with jealousy, so it's really hard for me to not advise her to just let the boy fuck her, get bored with her mud-puddle-deep personality, and brush her off. Get it out of his system, you know? Life is too short for this kind of stressful bullshit. Anyway, long story short, I'm trying to help her deal with this self-focused, poisonous little biatch, and went on to relate a story about my friend. "I could tell you this story," I said, "but...it's...really...like...TMI. So much TMI. Like you won't be able to look at (my friend) ever the same again." "You don't even talk to her anymore, Mom." "I know, but it's really....REAL." "It's okay, Mom," she assured me, "I've seen your and Dad's search history." -- Silence -- I gave her a questioning look, to elaborate. Because I'm sure as hell not going to be the one to flop that one out there on the table. Nope. She wants the truth, she can damn well ask for it. "Swinging?" she said, "AFF?" I laughed, actually not missing a beat. "Yeah. Well. There you go." "So did you and, uh...(friend) ever, uh..." "Oh GOD no." I exclaimed. "No no no no no. There are some rules..." "Oh so there ARE some rules then?..." "Oh yes, there are rules." I said, "One of them is that you don't fuck your close friends." I proceeded to tell her about the nightmare threesome experience my friend and her husband had with a vampiric, soul-sucking bitch who got off on shattering marriages. The point was to outline how destructive narcissists can be, and how relentlessly devious and cunning they are. So after regaling her with that gem, she sat back digesting it, and then said, "So can I ask you a question?" "Sure!" I said. I'm thinking 'This is FANTASTIC!' "I mean, only if you want to! Your business is your business, if you're uncomfortable with it..." "No, I don't mind at all. This is fun, actually!" "Okay." she said. "So, how do you guys do it? Like, how does it work?" She meant, as in, how do we have such a great relationship while fucking other people? "It works really, really well, actually." "Oh." She seemed surprised and hopefully more at ease because of my frankness and comfort with talking openly about it. "It obviously doesn't work for everyone," I said, "But for us, it's been great. You have to be able to trust one another enough to do it. And it's more about wanting to be able to give one another more out of life." That part isn't verbatim, but something to that effect. She wondered aloud whether it might be something that her boyfriend needed. I didn't agree. I switched gears a little, and explained that this is why it's been hard to advise her before, regarding her jealous streak; my first inclination would be to tell him to go do what he's gotta do. Shrug my shoulders and let the little vampire do her worst, because in the end, she still can't touch what really matters between us. My daughter said she didn't think she could do that. I said, then, that she should not. I just know that, for her Dad and I it has more or less bomb-proofed our relationship. "Some other woman can be sitting on your Dad's knee, feeding him grapes, and it wouldn't bother me in the least." She was amused at the idea of it. "I don't give a damn, she can do whatever she wants, but if she's going to be disrespectful of me, that has nothing to do with me. I leave that up to your Dad to deal with." "Like that woman at the restaurant that time?" she asked. I had apparently been too flirty with a woman's husband after imbibing too much wine (100% unintentional), and she decided to get back at me by sitting beside my husband while I was in the ladies room, putting her hand on his leg and giving him the come-fuck-me eyes. When I returned, and saw that my spot had been taken, he looked her dead in the eye and said to me, "Here, Hon, you take my spot." Yeah. My man. She got shut DOWN. Hard. "Yeah, just like that." I said, "I just laugh about it. She can try to weasel in if she wants, and I'm just like, 'Hold on! I'll get the camera!'" She thought it was funny, and I think she was even more pleased at my willingness to talk about it. It has been a big fat-ass elephant in the room for too long. They knew. Of course they knew. But neither half of the parent-child equation knew how much the other wanted to know or reveal. I'm so glad she had the balls to bring it up. She has frequently complimented her Dad and I on our relationship in the past, and I'm sure this was a mystery to her, as she explained she suspected it for a very long time now, since they were kids. Believe me, were NOT indiscreet, we just have exceptionally observant offspring. She explained she had seen me browsing the Swingersboard, and had thought I was looking up swingsets. But she noticed some of the stuff on it was about sex. She had asked why I was on that site, and I told her because I enjoyed discussing the topic with other people. It was fascinating. She wanted to know what it was, and not wanting to lie, I believe I gave her the 10-year-old's version of the truth, which was something along the lines of 'married people who don't believe in monogamous relationships.' I DID lie when she asked if her Dad and I did that, and I told her no. I enjoyed the conversation. We never discussed it again until last night. "So are those your friends from Ottawa?" she asked. "Yes." I said, "We really like them. They're really very nice people." "Huh. That's cool." she said, "Yeah we kinda wondered about that. You know, you guys just randomly going to Ottawa to visit friends or go to a party." Because she knows that's not really 'us'. We've been social hermits for-frigging-ever. "So does your brother know, too--" "--Yeah." she said, "Oh yeah, he knows." Smart little farts. I have to say, I am actually super stoked about this. I have hated having to hide anything about ourselves from our kids. We don't get into the hairy details of what we do in the bedroom - and I have no intention of starting now - but I don't want to pretend like we don't have a sex life. And I don't want to pretend that this is not a part of who and what we are. Because it is, and it's something we both love. It's not dirty. It's not deviant. It's not harmful to our relationship, to anyone else's, or to society. It has been a very positive experience and a deeply beneficial relationship philosophy. I'm hoping we can now be more open with our kids, without having to come up with stupid cover stories that - deep down - we knew they didn't believe anyway.

You know nothing about us, our experiences, and deserve no reply.

Finding another couple where everyone 'clicks' is not twice as hard and finding your partner, but 16 times harder (4 squared). That's AFTER removing the flakes, pic collectors, and train wrecks from the equation (which doesn't leave that many to start with). Nobody said it would be easy, and it sure isn't...but when you do make that connection {BOOM}. Looking forward to your return...

Remember how hard it was to find ONE person who liked you for what you were and you liked them for what they were. Now, don't double that, but square it. It's four people who all must like and feel a connection with the other three. It IS very hard to do, but when you find that other couple, it is very awesome!

I don't know if this is the norm at most clubs or not, but we tried to do something similar our first trip to the club, though not really scouting, just talking and preparing ourselves. The security guard walked up and knocked on our window, told us we either needed to go in or go away. Did not think about it before that, but I actually really like this. I wouldn't want someone sitting in the parking lot keeping an eye on who comes and goes, could be someone I know, or someone just trying to out people cause they are against this type of behavior. Apparently, being the only club in town, they have had issues with this before, so now offer free valet parking and monitor the parking lot.

I agree with this sentence. I actually look for the hottest women for my hubby to hook up with. But then I am confident in myself and his love for me. Sounds like your wife is not.