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The ideal age of consent is that age where a person can make an informed and rational decision that weighs the benefits and the risks, physical and emotional, of intimacy. As persons vary in their rates of maturation, so too does the ideal age of consent. It is a matter of being decisional. Learning about intimacy involves personal growth. Trust matters. We would suggest that experience also matters. Two inexperienced teenagers is probably not an ideal recipe for learning. Not only do different countries have different laws, different cultures have different rituals. For example, in mid-20th century France, it was often a rite of passage to be sent to the home of a parent's old lover or mistress to be schooled in the arts of love. For a young woman today, safety is paramount. We think parents do better creating safe spaces for those initial experiences than trying to regulate whether or when they occur.

I think you cast a rose colored light on swingers and a harsh cold one on others. ( well from this post at lest ) I mean the arrogant and judgemental style of the statement is beyond words. so before i say to many I'll leave it at that.

This is a difficult and serious question, I'm glad that this board allows the discussion. Interesting how the posts talk about girls, not boys even though there's been problems lately with women and underage boys.

While most of us learned about sex in high school, I don't think that it should be perceived as being ALLOWED to happen in high school. After all if the age of consent is 14/15/16 then that means that a 30/40/50yo guy would be ALLOWED to have sex with a 14/15/16yo girl. Just because we all too often learn about sex at that age, it takes more than a working anatomy to be able to handle the other aspects that come with it (emotions, disease, pregnancy, etc.). 18...even 21 while not being practical is a much better age for most to be prepared for everything involved with sex. Heck, in most cases I think marriage before 25+ is not a great idea as well (once again, in most cases). All too often children are in too much of a hurry to be 'grown up' and rush out and make hasty decisions that they later will regret. Learn to be an self sufficient adult first (I wish I would have), then you can become a kid again later in life...

Folks, I exchanged a few PMs with OP and there is a lot more to his story than what he posted. I advised him to go to another specific website for support for the particular situation he described to me. Happy New Year!

I don't really think swinging is the answer when people are in closed off relationships. Usually it's much more than that that needs resolved... their unhappiness wouldn't be fixed by swinging so while I do feel sorry for them it's not because they don't swing.

The couple that you described wouldn't be able to survive swinging. It takes love, trust and communication to be successful with this. While I was (as well as Ms. Gold) in long marriages (over 20 years for both of us), the trust and communication just wasn't there to try something like this. Some couples just can't do this. Some couples have great relationships with each other and would never think about doing this. Some people are not wired for this. But a few of us, the lucky ones (IMHO), appreciate every minute!

Late to the party here, but sometimes when there seems to be too much of a connection between two people, and the other two don't have much of one...well, it might just be best to walk away. Oh, and neither of you should ever 'take one for the team'. There's too many other couples out there to be lowering your standards for anyone.

Single professional female (travel for work) looking for a male swing partner (over 45). I am looking to explore the lifestyle.

I have to strongly agree that when there is too strong of a connection between 2 of the 4 it's time to walk away. Either all 4 are into it or nobody plays... That's how we roll.

It is like any new encounter with the opposite sex. What does she like? Will it stay hard? Will I get off too fast? Will I get her off? add the element of the same room and your other half is having a blast: Stay focused on my play partner Do not blow a nut hearing my other half get off, before my play partner is ready Enjoy hearing her enjoy herself All in all it is nervous good time with the extra element of something new while something you love an know being in the same room.

Not a weirdo...lots of women have this fantasy. They don't actually want to be violently raped in a dangerous environment where they could actually be physically hurt, but forced to submit to a (attractive/rugged/rough) stranger. Very common fantasy (usually in books they don't say raped, but 'taken' or 'submits' or some other 'pretty' word that means the same thing). Ms Gold loves it when I 'force' her to do things that are right at the line of her comfort zone (the hard part is knowing where that line is). For her it's not having a choice (and therefore not having to admit to herself or anyone else that it was something she actually wanted). Some women actually want to be able to be a slut without really admitting that they enjoyed being a slut or having to deal with any judgement of others (they were forced so they are not really a slut...they 'had' to do it, it wasn't their idea or something they let others know they wanted). Just don't ever come to Calif...you never know what may happen or who you may run into...

I have to agree that swinging is not the answer to unhappy relationships. There are many swingers I know who do not seem particularly happy with their S.O. (sometimes I think the lifestyle is the problem for them). I think I see a good number of women who swing for their husbands. People don't like to admit it, but I see it pretty frequently. When a couple is happy, then what they are doing works for them. If they are not happy, something is wrong between them, which may or may not be related to sex.

Yes it was. Very liberating, very scary until we joined in. Amazing.

We found this case as well. Several couples had already arranged to play with each other so we sat there like tourists until a few guys lined up to hit on my wife. zzzzz.

All the more reason to estimate. Please do your best. Thank you.

I don't care if my wife texts male playmates, and vice versa. We trust each other 100%

I suspected this might be the case. I hope the exchange proves helpful.

I've been giving her a hard time "Joking" about just flopping her breasts out in front of strangers.. Having a normal conversation nothing about the LS and I will look at her and say "hey how about showing me your boobs" Her response was thats not all your going to see honey, just wait till our next outing!! You are so right never thought in my 27 years with her I would have seen or heard things she is saying and doing!!

I think college is where a lot of people get over that "nervous, awkward, I don't know what to think" stage of sex. In high school, so many people are still learning the basics of human nature, and that includes just figuring out what romantic feelings even are. I definitely knew some women who went totally haywire their first couple years in college, especially if their home environment was very restrictive. One went through at least two dozen partners her freshmen year and loved it, but was also religiously strict about safe sex. The high school sweetheart - the same one whose mother was ready to send her for therapy after she figured out her innocent daughter gives head - had a few men who would pop by her dorm for casual sex with either her or her roommate, whoever was around. However, they also settled out of it once they figured things out and matured well. Both are happily married to guys who I'm pretty sure have no idea are are successful in their own right. Some people make different mistakes than others, I guess. That's how you learn. Mrs. E has said before that if she'd known what she knows now, she would have just spent high school and college on her hands and knees instead of worrying so much.

Damn yes I was nervous. Our first time was more about my wife. I wanted to watch her, but with a woman. We ended up with a couple. I didn’t know how I would react watching my wife. For me being with another woman in front of my wife I worried about getting an erection. That fear disapppeared because I was pretty hard. I worried about going off too fast. My first was younger and very attractive so I worried how she looked at me. My wife was very supportive. I was way more nervous than her.

I don't normally plan a LS event of any sort as my birthdays are generally low key. But I always make sure I have sex on my birthday, usually with a friend or a friend's husband staying the night with me.

My wife and I settled this question many years ago. We trust each other to the extent that texting with others bothers neither of us. It typically does not start, however, until after an in-person meeting. It is also typical that we occasionally tell what kind of messages we have recently received, especially any funny stuff.

It comes down to comfort. If you are both comfortable with it then go for it but set very specific boundaries - as someone else said agreeing to it in this instance does not mean you are agreeing to it in all future instances. It's a one time thing (until such time as you agree to do it again or agree to allow it as a regular thing). That said, I can't help but have a few questions based on what you've shared so far.... You mentioned that she didn't hit it off with the other women of the couples. Is she jealous of other women being with you? Is this turning into a one-sided thing where she's getting what she wants but you aren't? You said that you really enjoy seeing her with other men and perhaps that's enough. But, if it's not enough you will eventually get frustrated and resent her for getting what she wants while you feel left out. I don't know if I'm on base, but it's worth considering, especially before you go a further step with her playing alone.

We cannot help but recall “All happy families are alike; each unhappy family is unhappy in its own way.”― Leo Tolstoy, Anna Karenina Domestic happiness does not require swinging, nor are all LS couples happy. The closeness that you feel to/for/with your spouse reflects a deep respect and commitment that escapes many couples. The lifestyle can be a reflection of that trust and intimacy. The lifestyle can be an adaptation to the quest for variety within the trust of marriage. The lifestyle can be more. Perhaps the key point is that your lifestyle is built on the foundation of your marriage, rather than defining your marriage.

No, I can't say that I'm sorry for couples that are lovingly monogamous for their entire lives. No, I can't say I'm sorry for couples that have affairs but still love each other and don't want to take it past that. No, I can't say I'm sorry for couples that have opened their marriage, choosing to have others lovers enhance their relationship. I can say I'm sorry for the idiots of both sexes who go out and fuck other people, bitch at each other about their life and wind up getting divorced. But my sorrow doesn't exist because they're not into swinging, it's because they're fucking idiots!

Yes it was pretty daunting at first and the amount of people just having sex while others watched......liberating and quite scary!

My wife an I started with about 5 visits to a local club before we were invited to a house party. And this was probably for the best. Generally agree with everything said so far. Clubs are much noisier and harder to really get to know someone, make sure you schedule your visit on a night that is going to be fairly busy. For instance, our local club has SLS nights on the 3rd Saturday of the month. It is packed on those nights, other nights it is a real crap shoot. I personally much prefer house parties now. You rally can get to know someone first if that is what you are interested in (not everyone is). House parties are generally more laid back. Like a regular back yard barbque until later in the night and then only in the play areas.

@ Erik13. That could go either way. Mrs Doc and I were at Trapeze in FLL one night in a curtained bed area. Mrs Doc was giving me a leisurely bj when I felt a hand on my foot and calf. I opened my eyes to see a woman had pulled the curtain aside and had reached in to touch me. I swear, all I did was smile at her. She dropped her towel (very nice body) and crawled up beside. The only words she said were, "may I"? to my wife who nodded yes. The lady then proceeded to blow me to completion and swallowed. She patted my thigh, picked up her towel and walked away. That had never happened before and hasn't since but what a memory and NOT an erection killer.

A club environment would be - to me - a bit of a 'safer' environment. Most clubs have plenty of people who are just there for the environment, while the house parties I've been to are a bit more hard core. Not to say that both wouldn't be all right, you just might have an easier time dipping the toes at a club. However, if you're sure you want to play with others that first time, you might have better luck at a party. Good luck!

I do believe that "regardless of the husband's whereabouts" is the accurate definition. It's just that hotwife couples are more often ok with the wife olaying alone than as is common in the swing scene.

Talk to him about this. You need love, trust and communication to be successful. I assume you have the love, increasing the communication usually helps with the trust.

@SA….Couldn't agree more. We look for playmates first. If friendship happens, that's great but for us, this is purely recreational. We know within 20 seconds to 20 minutes of meeting a couple (our 20/20 rule) whether we'll EVER want to be naked with them. We'll play on the first date providing there is a mutual attraction and available time and venue, and providing of course if Mrs Doc says so. Swinging should not be much more complicated than physical attraction. Multiple dates, friends first, meeting the in-laws, etc can inhibit playtime rather than enhance it. That being said, we're still friends with the first couple with whom we ever played and that was more than 15 years ago.

I hear from many of the HW couples I've played with over the years that it's challenging to find guys who the woman finds attractive and who is also sufficiently comfortable to enjoy having sex with her while her hubby watches.

I've definitely had some fun in these situations as well, I think it has kind of become it's own subset of the lifestyle. I am not into the Hollywood version with humiliation, etc., but if a husband gets off on watching I'm more than happy to oblige. Video is fun too

Yes, I have several cuckold couples that I play with, and honestly, the Bull role is very hot!