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We agree. We have a special warmth for people we romp with, but some of those relationships have morphed into vanilla friendships.

Does anyone participate in LS activities in a club/house party environment only and turn it all off at the door when you leave or does it always grow/evolve into meeting couples outside of those places as you get more into the LS? We are completely new to this and are attending our first club this weekend. Just wondering if there are those that only play in those situations ONLY and never bring it to a more personal level in their outside vanilla life. I don't know why I'm wondering this tbh. It just popped into my head after spending countless hours reading this forum trying to learn as much as possible and making an attempt at being at least somewhat informed. Lol

What I don't understand is why you are not attending these events with her. One of the things that Ms. Gold enjoys is being able to let her guard down (however never with work friends...one must watch their reputation and not be known as the person who did THAT at the Co. Christmas party) knowing that she is safe because I still have her back. She enjoys the flirting and teasing, but only because if things start to get out of hand, I will step in and protect her. It's good that your wife is coming out of her shell, but I would suggest that you be there to cover her back...

Why should you feel like anything is amiss? Say you married at 18 as a virgin and were having sex with the same guy all the time. You would have probably fucked the same number of times, maybe more since he's always there, just the same guy. So what difference does it make? People just trying to make girls feel bad.

Hi all, My wife and I have been classifying ourselves as swingers for as long as we have been doing this (3 years now). We have had may amazing experiences and some not so much. One of the biggest issues is that 4 way connection. We found it in a couple that we are quite close to but we still see it as a "swinging" relationship, even though we adore them so much. At one point they entered into a poly relationship with a couple that lives in the same city as them and although kind of sad for our loss we were so happy for them. That relationship ended poorly for them and there was alot of hurt and a little strain on their marriage for a short time. Being involved in a large community I have seen numerous swingers travel the poly road and in many cases I have seen heartache, hurt and even marriages ending. In fact, I have yet to see a successful swinger -> Poly transition work out. Well, recently my wife and I met a couple we connect with like mad. I'm talking crazy connection. Lots of amazing sex, amazing friendships, communication and similar goals and values. I've never seen a man please my wife the way he does and I've never been so comfortable with another woman as I am with her (besides my wife of course). All of this is just so incredible we are talking about labeling it. We talk about the future and we have booked a family vacation with them in March. We are all very excited.....BUT, with the numerous failures I have seen for friends and acquaintances it gives me pause. I fear that it is destined for failure. Worse than than I fear a strain on our marriage as feeling develop. Not for any specific reason other than what I have witnessed. What I am asking is for people to weigh in on their stories. Stories of successes, failures and how to navigate through both keeping our relationship as the priority and without damaging it. Another note to help get you in my head. My wife and I are childhood sweethearts. Been together since we were 14. We had only been with each other up until 3 years ago and certainly have never fallen in love with anyone other than each other. Our marriage is strong, we communicate and still have so much passion for each other. We have gone through issues since swinging but nothing that we have not been able to resolve easily. We are aware of the intense NRE involved here and keep ourselves in check but we are excited to see where this goes. I just don't want to end up being hurt or hurting anyone else involved.

Thank you for sharing. That's exactly what we are wanting too.

How about: not as many as I would have liked to, but more than I probably want to admit to a room full of people.

Although the friends part slightly outweighs the benefits part, we really like that BOTH parts have serious weight. It adds an additional dimension to the relationship that just friends can and will never have. While we will get together with our FWBs and at times do vanilla things with sex not being on the table, knowing that we will and have seen them naked, seen them having sex, had sex with them, etc. means that there is a closer bond that 'just friends' can never have. We can actually TALK about sex (and just about anything else for that matter) without fear of shock or losing the friendship. It seems that sex is something that more (most) people want to be able to talk about but can't (IMHO...just look at how dominate it is in today's society from advertisements/TV/books/etc). We already have plenty of friends, but our closest friends that we can be our real selves with, that we can talk about and do (for that matter) almost anything with are our FWB. Just like swinging takes a relationship to a new unforeseen level, FWB takes friendship to a new level.

I don't really think religion should come into it, I mean which religion celebrates swinging/swapping? Although I do understand that some are far stricter in general. A marriage is about sharing your life and that includes fantasies, although fantasies are often rather different in reality! I'm guessing that you've been encouraging and have discussed what you would be happy with? If so then your wife should only do what she's happy doing and at the pace she's comfortable with. I'm also presuming that you won't be with her at the time? Personally I'd always want my husband to be a part of it. We're both pretty new and are still learning ourselves.

This is an interesting question that without a doubt will illicit different answers. When I was married to my first husband, we simply played at our local club and left the LS behind when we went home. We did have dinner a few times with couples that we becamse friendly with at the club but kept it vanilla outside. With my current husband, we do socialize more with couples that we have met at the club. But... couples we meet outside the club are also only for vanilla activities. Sure, we flirt and joke but don't play at all. I'm not sure that this really gives you much insight. We just tend to keep our playing inside the confines of the swing club. We have hosted a few private parties and there we all play but that is the point of the party. Over time our social life has become pretty much all swingers as this is who we are most comfortable with. Even if we don't play with them we have more in common.

For a number of reasons, mostly age and health related, we haven't played for about nine months, but we still are very good friends with Bill, our male best friend and longtime threesome partner. We became good friends with Bill and his then wife in 1980 and a few years later we started playing with them. They divorced and we are still very good friends with his former wife and second husband who was also a friend. My wife has played with Bill from the mid 1980s. In the early years when our kids were young it was mainly the two of them alone during the day since he worked nights and my wife didn't work. Over the years it evolved into a combination of the two of them playing alone and the three of us having threesomes. In the early 1980s we met SK who was a friend of Bill and his wife. He flirted with my wife and mentioned playing with her. My wife thought it was flattering and it excited me too but nothing came of it until 2014 when Bill asked if he could bring SK over the next time he had a threesome with us. We agreed and that led to my wife and I playing with him on an occasional basis. We haven't played with him for about a year, but we still keep in touch. In the past I have done a lot of nude photography and if things work out schedule wise, we are having him over to our to our house for some nude fine art/erotic pictures. It should be a lot of fun and SK, who is quite and exhibitionist, is really looking forward to it.

Now that I have a daughter (daughters, since I count all of the children in our poly family), I have thought about this a little. I said 16 because otherwise you're fighting human nature, it won't work, and you'll make criminals of kids who are doing what comes naturally. Kids should be given a thorough sex education starting at 14, not just the regular reproductive stuff, but everything they could encounter in the world - homosexuality, the cost of children on their life, potential emotional pain, exploitation, etc. To add credibility, slightly older kids, 16 to 18, should come in and tell what happened to them. At 15, girls should be put on long-term birth control (implants, IUD, injections) unless the young woman herself, not her parents, opts out. At 16 a young adult is responsible enough to drive, they therefore can have sex.

When I copied the CL advert to this thread, I mentioned that it 'resonated' with us, and I think I was reflecting on the 'modern subdivisions no longer have sidewalks' idea. (I read a book a while ago lamenting the decline of the traditional 'friendly neighborhood', and it touched on that very point). One of the things we've noticed in online ads and profiles (we're usually checking out SLS) is that many couples say they're looking for "Friends With Benefits" -- heck, *we* say something similar in our own profiles -- and we're pretty adamant that there be at least an emotional connection with any couple we meet one-on-one. We consider some of our dearest friends to be those we met through our adult playtime, and it morphed into decent 'vanilla' friendships too. So, which part to we value more -- the sexual or vanilla aspects of our relationships? Hands-down: it's the non-sexual part of those relationships. And it seems that way for our playpartners as well.s I just thought that the ad described the end-result perfectly. The friendships we have are the core of the relationship; sex is just an added bonus. Just my $0.02

You've got that right. She's talked to me about her partners before us and most of them were bigger than me, however she's explained she enjoys our intimacy because while I may not be able to provide that "full feeling" I focus on everything else that I can.

That makes total sense to me. Because of how I was brought, up race doesn't really play too big of a factor in things I choose to do or not do. But to hear a first world experience from someone that's been swinging before is very comforting, so thank you for your response.

Why even bother pointing a finger? What will this accomplish? I understand that you are upset and angry, but at this point you have two options: walk away from the thought of swinging in any form or learn and move forward. Pick one. Being angry really won't accomplish much other than raising your blood pressure and wasting time on bad feelings and what if's. Would it make you feel better if it was the other couples fault, your husbands fault, your fault? Learn and move forward. If you feel like you are clicking with this other couple (all things considered), then next time meet with them but on neutral ground (a hotel) for your play time. Don't dwell on this, you have too much good in your life to waste the time. Move forward and remember that this is supposed to be fun. If it isn't, then you know what your other choice is.

We've found that being around most bbc's has not been enjoyable. Mrs Doc refers to that subset as walking penises. Many bring no finesse, no class and few skills to the party, just their dick. Plus, she says there is a blood volume issue. Most human, she posits, haven't enough blood to maintain that huge erection and higher thought processes simultaneously (this applies to bwc as well). We would find the OP and his fiancé to be a much more attractive option than the standard BBC because he sounds like a caring and gentle man which to her means he's much more than the sum of his dick length and skin color. We had friends and playmates early on that, over time and moves, we lost track of. He was a C-5 pilot, a Major and was an average sized black man in all aspects and she was a petite, white Captain in the USAF. We had wonderful, fun loving and highly erotic evenings with them over three years. We both wish we hadn't lost track of them and we hope they think of us as fondly as we do them. Dick size and skin color hadn't a damned thing to do with it.

First I find the term BBC dehumanizing. I don't like being identified by my body parts. I am turned off by men who advertise themselves by their endowments or brag about their skills. If there is chemistry and we are having fun I would have no problem taking a ride on average, with your wife's permission and perhaps her participation.

Last I checked 5" is considered normal...nothing wrong with being normal. In our experience, most 'well endowed' men have no skill. Their size is all that matters so they just slam it in over and over until they are done (how was that for you, sugar?). A little skill and effort can easily outperform them. Remember it's the skill of the magician, not the size of his wand...

I don't count, it can be impossible to keep track at gangbangs and greedy girl nights anyway. Before I was 18 and starting swinging regularly I'd had sex with 16 guys and 2 girls. After 13 years of swinging attending parties, meeting couples online, shagging friends and their friends, and the occasional gangbang... God knows. Say 40-50 men and 10-20 women a year, so average 60 py. 13 years, plus those before... Shit that would be around 800! I'm not totally sure about that it's probably a bit less. I'm sure it's over 500. Christ I hadn't tried to work this out for years this is actually a small surprise. I definitely feel like a slut now!

I could not begin to estimate.

I'm going to be the odd one out here, but I like it. Mostly just in the shower and only from my boyfriend. I'm not sure why I like it, but I don't think its disgusting considering I put my mouth on the place it comes out of all the time. I wouldn't want to taste it, but I don't know... its warm, and wet, and I like it. I think it's a little weird that I like it, but I do.