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Sorry to say, but par for the course. Is everyone so rude these days or is it just Swingers? The advances in telecommunications have not been matched by advances in civility. Good for you for dropping them. We find that the other couples’ ability or inability to make and attend a date is the vetting process. In the words of the Soup Nazi: Next!

I could post this under swinger experiences, but I feel it has more to do with swinging online than anything else. A few weeks ago we got hit up by a couple on our local clubs website. Upon getting their kik handle I realized that I'd conversed with them previously after they'd contacted us on SLS. Basically, we do all our kik and text chats as a group rather than 1-1 (Or at least try to). I'd started a group chat and they refused to reply to the group and kept just messaging me so I'd dropped them. (#redflag1) I figured WTH and gave them another shot, starting a group chat with them and both of us. A few messages in HE messages asking if I'll text the wife. We prefer to stick to kik until we've established a connection, but whatever (#redflag2). So, I reply that if she's cool with him giving me her number sure I'll message her. He finally comes back with her # so I message her. Crickets. A couple of days later he messages asking if we're talking. I reply that I messaged her but haven't heard anything back. I also asked "she did know I'd be messaging right?" No reply. (#redflag3 - at this point we've written them off). A couple of days later he comes back again asking if we're talking. My guy replies that I've messaged her and not gotten any response and perhaps there's some miscommunication on their end. He replies "let me look because I thought we had plans to meet and swap next week." WTF? Us: Evidently you have us confused with someone else, because we haven't had any dialogue with you regarding playing. Him: Can y'all play tonight? Us: Nope. We have plans. Aside from that, we haven't had any meaningful conversation with you to even see if there's potential interest in playing.

I’m not sure that I understand the benefit of talking on the phone. I would rather meet in person and if it’s not clicking, make it a quick half hour and leave.

Maybe. The first is to be analytical about profiles and only message those you really do think would be a good fit. The second is to send an introductory email saying what you like about their profile without asking for or giving access to photos. If someone's first approach to me includes anything but a soft ask, I say we wouldn't be a good fit. In other words, I instantly reject anyone who, in the first email, asks for photos, gives me their kik or email address, etc., because it feels like pressure and an insistence on doing it their way. I assume that will translate into sex, because people tend to be consistent, so I'm not going to even try.

While we are not strangers to the online world, we have yet to hook up with anyone from strictly our computer or other devices. We are more of meet and greet and "get to know you" kind of people. That being said, there's a lot to be said for manners and civility. I think Fundamental Law outlined it quite well. We prefer people who use common sense and a decorum of politeness. If we click on that level then the rest comes naturally.

True that. There are at least two consequences. 1. Kind discourse stands out. Manners matter. The most attractive people are rarely the best looking, the "hottest" appearing. Rather, they are the ones who are engaged and engaging. 2. Civility can be confused with something more. Simple acts such as bringing a hostess gift or writing a thank-you note should not be confused with romantic gestures. Unfortunately, social graces have become rare in contemporary American society such that no one knows how to discriminate much less respond. Etiquette provides a framework for relationships.

Julie, Thank you for posting. This is less miscommunication than 'a failure to communicate'. It's one thing to misinterpret a message--that happens all the time in vanilla life as well as in the lifestyle. It's something else entirely to talk past another person or couple. We do not attribute such behaviors to lack of civility, or even to "tone-deafness". Those would imply the existence of a relationship (here, relationship is used with a small "r"). Rather, we think such behaviors are symptomatic of the avoidance of a relationship. "Can y'all play tonight?" Not really--because 'play' implies some sort of relationship, however transient.

So true. When things seem off from the start, they just stay that way. You see it with everything, but especially in swinging. If there is the slightest hint of cluelessness even in their profile, much less any communications, then we immediately write them off. If they can't get their act together on those simple things when given plenty of time to figure out which path to take and formulate a good response, then in the heat of the moment, they probably aren't going to have their act together either and that just leads to a sucky night for all involved. One of my favorites was a message from probably the more bi-furious profiles I've seen, one of those "I WILL eat that pussy" types. Them - Hi, She's hot, she can't wait to eat that pussy! Us - no reply, since she's straight and profile indicates that. Them, second try a few days later - She eats pussy like you wouldn't believe, she'll have her screaming out all night long! Us - You all did see where she's straight, right? Sorry, not interested. Them - Yes, we saw that. Y'all want to get together and fuck this weekend? I mean WTF, do these approaches actually work for anyone?!

Recently, we played with a couple and the guy was a bit on the small side. On the upside he seemed to stay towards the walls of my vagina which gave me more sensation (and I'm guessing him as well), unfortunately he also pounded away. At first this felt good as it was pounding my clit and felt pretty good. However, after a bit I had to tap out as it was making me really freaking sore and left me feeling a bit bruised. That said, there are times when I like to get pounded, but I don't want it to go on for a long time. There are times I will ask for it and it's because I know it will drive me over whatever edge I'm on or because I'm getting tired and I know it will drive him over his edge. Short answer: pounding really depends on the situation, pounding away forever is never a good thing.

My fairly strict, very old-fashioned Catholic upbringing, especially the attitude towards women, made me quietly rebellious, particularly about sex. But as the quote says, "I thank God I was raised Catholic, so sex will always be dirty."

We have met our first couple, and though they didn't hide the fact that the wife was bi, my wife wasn't 100% prepared. I had stated before in other posts that we have played separately with others but never together and we were wondering what it would be like. The couple we met are great people. They took time, no pushing, were fun before, during and after. They did nothing wrong. My wife and I agree that we found the right people to do this with. The one thing that was different, and I have no problem with it, is the bi part of the other wife. We talked about what she likes to do and my wife and I agreed it would be fine for the wife to undress us. I found watching a woman undress my wife pretty sexy. I did notice my wife being a little stiff. She didn't stop the action and didn't balk outright. I kept asking my wife if she was okay and she said she was. The rest of our time with the couple was how I thought a swap would be. It is not like being alone with someone in a hotel. Afterwards my wife and I talked. It was the "was it good for you" conversation. Both of us agreed it was different. Both agreed we would do it again. We even talked about what it was like to watch. I made the comment about watching a woman doing things to her. Maybe I laughed about her freezing up. I was just joking. Then my wife asked a pointed question. Would I let a bi man suck me. I said it's different than the two women playing. She wanted to know why it's different. I couldn't give a real answer. My answer is a strong no. Then I got into saying swinging has many more bi women than bi men. I don't know if that is true, in my mind women swingers play with other women. I have no basis for that thought. Right now the couple we met are the only ones we are talking to. I think they want to meet again. I won't make any plans without both me and my wife agreeing. I'm just afraid the bi thing will stop it.

It has been awhile since our introduction here. After our first experience with a couple this past summer, we met with them two more times and enjoyed swapping partners. That experience triggered a previously unknown sexual desire for the wife. She opened a profile on a dating site and we agreed that she can meet with guys with my prior approval. Since then she has been with 6 different guys and with two of them multiple times. She surprises me with pictures and videos from her encounters and that excites me a lot. We have great sex when she gets home from her adventures and I love to enter her knowing that she recently been penetrated by another guy.This is just an update of where we are now. The forum provided us with great insight into the lifestyle.

A voice helps verify someone is real, some people use Skype or video chat. Sometimes there are nuances I pick up on in a brief conversation that also weeds out a few more and saves trips for coffee.

Apparently, your wife is not interested in female on female. Okay, no LifeStyle law that says there has to be interest in that. Appreciate your wife's feelings, let her have the experiences she wants to have.

James, we all had to start somewhere (and there is no such thing as too long of a post or too much information). What you need to do is work HARD on the trust and communication issues. ALL swingers who are successful have these two things in abundance. Will this lead to you both swinging in the future...who knows, but it WILL lead to a better and stronger relationship and that is NEVER a bad thing. Of course, to get trust you must first be willing to give it. Start opening up to her and talk honestly about...well just about everything (just about excludes things like 'does this make me look fat?' questions). Slowly work more towards to talking about your fantasies. Also, let her know about the things that really turn you on. Things like 'remember when you asked me to come on your tits...I still think about that, it and you were and are so sexy'. Help build up her self confidence and remind her how much you love her, but are also attracted to her (something that can easily be forgotten as a relationship gets 'older'). You are supposed to be her rock and she needs to know that her rock is bedrock, not sitting on shifting sand (stealing from Paul, but it's still true in this case as well). While you may love her beyond words, that doesn't mean you should ever stop saying those words. You should never take her or her love for granted. All of this is part of great communication. "Oh, she knows how I feel" is NEVER good enough and is usually the first step towards that downward spiral. Of course, for there to be a downward spiral, there must also be an upward one. When things start going in that upward direction, they can also pick up speed and keep making things better for each of you as well. If you didn't read it in my post above, read this NOW: Monogamy Isn't Biblical, It's Roman While the Bible is God's book, it has been written and modified by humans who have their own flaws and imperfections. Cheating is something done by one member of a couple behind the back of the other and involves lies and deception. Swinging requires that the actions be done together in the light and needs a strong bond between the two to be successful. Will you two ever be swingers? We certainly have no idea, but the things that need to be done to possibly get there will only make your relationship stronger and better. Taking the first step is the way to find out if you will ever get there, and even if you don't, you will both be better off in your relationship for trying. Good luck and let us know how things progress.

We usually respond with a nice email that makes it obvious that we read their profile and ask them to read ours and let us know if they are interested (no open pictures yet). If they are interested, THEN we open the pictures and see if they are still interested (and hopefully they open their pictures as well). Sometimes there just is no interest or attraction based on looks...it happens and can't be taken personally. If there is still interested then we schedule a non-playing meet and see what happens from there. Opening your pictures too soon or quickly can be taken as a fake or picture collector. Just don't rush quite so much and realize that finding a four way match is hard and will take time to accomplish, it's all a numbers game...but it can totally be worth it when it happens. Good luck!

I need a connection that you simply cannot get through the Internet Yes there are a lot of fake, flakes, and people that are different from what each person is interested in. What I get from julie's tale is if something seems off it likely is. I move on quickly when I sense someone is not for me. I make it clear I don't do endless emails, and want a phone conversation before I'll exchange more photos (I am always surprised how many try to plan a meeting without talking - a sign to move on), and for me multiple layers to communication (kik, off site email) don't work for me. I have met some great single guys this way and not had any awful experiences where as at parties I feel like a piece of meat.

To say that its been a long road for us to get where we are now would be an understatement to say the least, but if we'd stuck to the online sites we'd still be knowhere now! After an extremely long time we moved from fantasy to looking and lets face it theres some great profiles out there! Obviously now we realise that most are fake.....it took us over 18 months to finally accept this fact and move on. Our short but fast start into this lifestyle hasn't exactly been plain sailing, but its been very enlightening and with real people not fairytale profiles of dreamers. We started the online process together complete with photos and what we thought was a well written profile. Well it soon became very clear that on the most part people were either pretending to be someone/something that they weren't or just wanted to perv at our pictures......needless to say I gave up. My husband persevered mainly on his own for some time before we stumbled across this site. To begin with I don't think either of us knew what to expect, but after some fantastic advice we went to a club (I think we just need a nudge really). That changed everything and turned our long time fantasies into reality. Now we share some of the stories from here, but on the whole things have swapped and it will nearly always be me reading the columns and sometimes engaging as I've found that I get a lot from here personally. You see I really don't expect anything from this site other than a greater understanding of swinging/swapping and the occasional advice (much appreciated by the way). I suppose as far as I'm concerned online swinging just isn't for me, I need a connection that you simply cannot get through the Internet and some of the reasons above are why which is a real shame as I'd imagine that plenty of nice people dip their toes and are completely put off from going any further.......who misses out......the genuine people.

A couple online asked us if we wanted to meet to play this weekend. They never met us, they haven’t seen our pictures, we asked them to open pictures, but they are free members, so we expect to hear some excuse about why they can’t open pictures, if we hear anything at all... We do like to meet, but we like to see face pix first. Maybe some are just out for a roll in the hay. They don’t care to have a meaningful discussion and they do want to avoid any relationship.

My question before deciding what to look for is what is it that you are both looking for? Is he ok with you being with another guy? Do you want to be with another guy? Is he just wanting the FMF threeasome experience? Are you looking for just girl/girl play? All of those factors really determine what you should seek. I get your point on feeling like a couple has as much to lose as you do, where a SF might not. I also get the theory /worry that a single would be more likely to develop feelings / get attached / cause problems, etc. In the end, those risks exist just as much with a couple as they do with a single (of either gender). I've seen couples who lack discretion far worse than any single (of either sex), and I've seen halves of couples who can't understand boundaries and want to communicate with half a couple when it's been expressed that they shouldn't. I say all that to say, deciding whether to look for a single or a couple should not be based on worries, but on which one is more likely to provide you with the type of play you are looking for.

This would be my thought as well. Granted there are all sorts of options in this situation, but should you not hit it off with this couple it would leave you guys feeling "odd man out" of sorts, since everyone is there to play and the other two couples are good to go with each other, and you are only good with one couple. If they couple is too far away to arrange a face-to-face meet prior to the weekend, then I'd suggest a skype chat (with the 6 of you) and then depending on how that goes with just you and the new couple to get a feel for your attraction to them. If they totally turn you off then I wouldn't waste the time doing the weekend thing as a 6-some. As to your original question (which has already been answered) there are endless ways to meet others, and you should find ways that feel the most comfortable and natural to you.

For me personally if I thought too hard I'd probably say no, too many people, but if like you say we throw caution to the wind.......I guess it might be fun?? Both of the new couples are attractive, which definitely helps, but yes it would probably be nice to say hello first and see if we connect?

Where to go from here: work on improving your communication and trust with each other. Nothing bad can come from making them better and maybe the next time there won't be any misunderstandings or problems (if there is a next time). It's better to not have crossed this bridge than to have crossed it and found out that he wasn't ready for it. Take your time, you both have the rest of your lives together and you never know what tomorrow brings. I suspect you will eventually achieve your goal, but you just need to be patient.

Well, in our case, it turns out it was because the lady of the couple was texting with me (we were looking forward to my first bi experience) and he felt like a third wheel. He recognizes he should have said so up front - there's that communication thing again - but when it came down to the wire he just wasn't up for it. I don't know where we are going to go from here. Remains to be seen. Unfortunately, there are no clubs closer than about 7 hours away, so makes it harder to make that our thing. Not to say we won't, but it's up in the air for now. While I'm really disappointed that we didn't get to try it, I of course respect his choice. Just wish he'd been up front from the start ( which I've told him).

We are both on here under different names, (she posts more frequently than I do) Our intrest in the lifestyle occasionally wanes but we always enjoy this site. Have a great New Year.

For the first time last night we have been with another bisexual guy whom I have been seeing for a short while. This was the first time that the wifey watched me with a guy in person. She joined the action and we both took turns fucking her and me and wifey sucked the guy, she was riding him while sucking me and he was licking her while I was sucking him off. It was a great experience. We are meeting the guy again tomorrow.

A guy goes into this situation with a set of expectations, even if he doesn't think so. We think we know ourselves and we expect our bodies to do certain things without even thinking about it. Erections are usually something we are trying to NOT get. Going into a very erotic situation, ED isn't even a thought. So when this happens, it's usually a bigger deal that the guy can vocalize. Now, as he is going into the next erotic situation, he has only one thought. This can cause a snowball effect. That's why he's trying to not think about it. The best cure seems impossible but he has to relax. Also, communicate to the other couple that this may happen. If they have ANY experience, they have probably experienced this. There are many ways to enjoy each other without a hardon. Once he can relax and start to enjoy the person and put the situation to the side, it will rage.

Thanks so much for reply! It's funny because our first time was exactly planned and like you didn't work out so well. I agree...not thinking about it still thinking about it! Lol... All I can do, I guess, is take him at his word and jump in...see what happens! I agree too, with the build up/nerves things. I get those whoops in my stomach (like when you're on a swing?) when I think about the fact that it's getting so close! Nerves for sure but also a serious turn on!

We're still pretty new and although our actual first time was exactly planned, there were problems. Theres never been a problem in our bedroom, quite the opposite, but there we were both extremely excited and no matter what we seemed to try.....well it wasn't happening. Anyway the other couple was pretty good about it and if I'm honest it was probably me that was annoyed. Not at my husband, but because I'd been concerned that I wouldn't be able to go through with it. Well after some time my husband and myself got together and after a fair bit of kissing and touching.....things went up and a few moments later we swapped back. Well they moved pretty quickly and everything worked fine. Although things haven't always gone smoothly since, this hasn't been an issue again. I think trying not to think about the upcoming swap is still thinking about it and lets face it communication is definitely part of the build up and although I find the nerves terrifying they also turn me on. Good luck

Some of our close swinging friends were met in church. It was/is amazing just how many swingers you can find in a church setting. Our view is cool comfortable of sharing together, and only sharing with married couples in the same marriage. We do not covet their relationship or one of them. We have a relationship that is deeply committed and has been one in marriage and in church as a union for 50+years. With our church friends in certain conversations (more than once), adultery became a discussion point with the "coveting" driver as the root sin. So when the actors perform sex without the underlying driver of "coveting," it can open up discussions that yield tell tale body/facial/word responses that suggest paths for deeper conversations with some. Of course, the response of someone messes with my mom ole lady gets shot really is a conversation changer (LOL)

Thank you Fundamental law, that was quite an interesting read. Really never knew that Samuel Clemmons was such a Hedonist. He certainly seemed to march to the beat of his own drummer, but certainly provided some food for thought.

At a hotel take over and meet and greet 300+ miles from home, we ran into our former Lutheran pastor and his wife. Initial shock but was fine and fun. We didn't know pastor's wives had that kind of lingerie. LOL. Julie

So we have been soft swap for several months now, and have had several FMF threesomes, but hubby was always scared about the thought of sharing me with another man. I told him I understood and would stay at his pace, but I did want it to eventually get there. He would love to talk about me and another man while having sex, but when it came down to doing it he always pulled back. I was starting to think he would never be ok with it. We discussed his reservations, and strangely, his biggest concern was for the first time, he didn't want it to be a friend or someone we would ever see again. He was scared he would feel jealous afterwards. So I came up with the fantasy of being at our club with door open, and him blindfolding me and me not knowing when he invited someone in to join us... We went out of town for the weekend and visited a club a few hrs away with the idea of finding mr stranger to join. We had a great time meeting new people, and hubby was asking my my thoughts on people all night. I thought we were finally gonna go for it, but the night ended and hubby still didn't commit to anything. I was a bit disapointed since we went thru a lot to get there to not actually do anything, but I tried not to let it show. I guess hubby noticed anyway.... I went out for a smoke before we left and hubby stayed inside. We left and went back to our hotel room. I take my makeup off and go lay down while he says he forgot his phone in the car. I read while I wait for him to get back. I hear the door open and he walks in and pulls a blindfold from his pocket. He demands I strip in that naughty voice of his and I hurry to comply. He places the blindfold over my eyes and says don't move. Its then that I hear movement thats not coming from him. There is someone else in the room with us! He positions me with my legs handing off bed with me on my tummy and tells me to open so I can suck his cock. I start sucking and I feel hands on my butt. Even though I knew someone else was in the room it still made me jump. I start to pull away and he tells me he didn't say I could stop sucking and pulls me back down. I feel a mouth on my ass, then my pussy. I'm being licked while sucking him, holy fuck we are actually doing this! A few minutes later I feel his cock. He starts to press in, has a little trouble sliding around because I am so wet, so hubby reaches back and holds my ass/ pussy apart. Hubby has his hands in my hair guiding me, and other guys hands on our my ass fucking me doggy style. Imagine my surprise when another set of hands finds my breast. This whole time not a single word has been spoken expect for my hubbys commands. I'm placed on my back, and i'm still sucking and being fucked and now my tits are being sucked. I can tell from touch its a women, even though I can't see and she doesn't speak... She end up licking my clit while her hubby fucks me. Then her head is buried in my pussy while he fucks her, I can feel her head pressing harder every time they rock forward. She's moaning and i'm moaning and I can't see I can only feel and it feels fucking great. We ended up fucking side my side on the bed, him fucking her and hubby fucking me. They finish, Her hubby goes to bathroom I guess to get a towel to clean her up, and she spends a few min more licking me while I am being fucked. Then I hear the rustle of clothing. Hubby says he will be right back. I feel a light kiss on my cheek and a whispered ''thank you'' I am still blindfolded but I giver her a hug and says ''No, thank you''. Then the door closes. Hubby rips the blindfold off and proceeds to eat my pussy and fuck my brains my out. Finally a hr later (where is this strange new stamina coming from?) I finally admit i'm sore and beg for his Cum. I worry that he will be upset or regrets, but he is smiling and says it was hot. He told me he really want to do this for me. I asked him which couple it was from the club and he wouldn't tell me, he just smiled and say's he explained that this was for me and we weren't looking for a full swap type thing tonight, that he wanted to blindfold me and do a MFM, and they agreed to follow us to hotel. I had no idea any of this occoured, it must have been while I was smoking. I trust hubby completely and know he wouldn't have invited anyone I didn't express interest in, and even though the night didn't go exactly as planned, it was hot as hell. Hubby finally shared me! The next day we talked a little bit about it on the way home. And while hubby still likes to talk about the sex part, he still wouldn't share anything else about the ''Who''. I don't care enough to press him on it. I am excited we made it this far in our adventures, I never thought hubby would really ever share me, much less like that, and much less enjoy it. So to the mystery women who so selflessly shared her hubby with me last weekend, thank you again. You guys are awesome to have been a part of this, and to never have spoken a word the whole time and somehow make my hubby comfortable enough to go thru with it. I hope all your fantasy's come true too!