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Hi I don't think you will find the answer here - Don;t get me wrong we will all tell you you have more "worth " then you think you do - What your doing is for filling your own prophecy - you go to the club believing your unattractive and so you put that vibe out there and guys hardly do any thing with you. Then when you do get one - well lets just say he did not help lol. So here"s what i would get my wife to do if it were her in your shoes. I would stop swinging ( for now ) you don't need the stress of failing ( in your mind anyway ) I would be looking for couples bonding programs/ stays - things where you and your mate get back to basics after that / or at the same time - i would be looking at retraining your thinking about you. You need to understand that you are worth the effort and not just some thing to be rejected by others ( yes some will but we all get that ) Once on this path i think you need to then start exploring things that make you feel empowered ( and what that is only can say ) Honestly this is a long term thing - but you may want to start some type of swing while you do this but for now i would not take you to clubs if you were my wife - focus on smaller groups were you can get more comfortable with the people you meet. maybe soft swaps ( up to you ) So of course i'm just thinking out load with all this and i do hope you find some peace with it all. Good lick.

Did your parents ever catch you ‘doing it’ when you were a kid? Or, have you ever caught your kids? What happened? I got caught. It was probably 1966. I was 17, she was 18, we’d been boinking for months. The folks said they were going someplace, we took the opportunity and headed for my downstairs bedroom. We’re going at it, hear footsteps upstairs, we both know we’re busted ‘cause her car is parked outside. The footsteps are coming down the steps, she runs into the closet completely naked, I get my pants on. “Where’s Stephanie?” my bitch of a step-mother screams. Then she figures out what’s going on, yells for my father to come down. He stands there and demands Stephanie come out of the closet, I’m saying, “Aw, c’mon Dad!” He finally figures it out, I close the door, Stephanie gets her clothes on and just leaves, I’m there to take the heat. I basically listen to them yelling at me, just silently give them the ‘go fuck yourself’ look. Funny thing was a few days later my dad tries to give me the birds-and-bees talk, I say don’t worry, we’re on spermicide. He didn’t know what it was, I had to explain it to him.

There are two aspects here that are convolved. What you say, and what she thinks. Let's separate them. What you say: If you are not asked, say nothing. If you are asked,say as little as possible to arrest the line of questions. We would say, "thanks for the observation, I know, he knows that I know, and both of us would be grateful if this went no further". What she thinks: If she does not comment, say nothing. What she thinks is irrelevant. If she indirectly or directly asserts that she thinks your husband is cheating AND you want to disabuse her of that notion, you MUST directly refute the statement. We would say, "You are incorrect. I know my husband kissed so-and-so. He knows that I know." The risk is that she will ask you directly, "Are you guys swingers? Do you have an open marriage?". Here, we would demur and either ignore the question and say nothing or give a generic response: "When we married, we agreed that some aspects of our life would remain private." You might choose to lie. We are lousy liars. We simply do not tell all of the truth.

Have you considered using an app for STD testing verification / tracking ? Such as Healthvana, the Safe App, or another? Seems like there are some options out there. Just curious if any of these are getting a foothold in the community.

Not unless I was keen to send out that personal information to the world, which I am not. So, no, no way in hell would I use such an app. For the most part, apps are just data collection programs.

Alone play has two big advantages, it creates more opportunities for sex if you're not hung up on always having to be together, and it's different - it creates more variety.

Talese was, in my opinion, one of the finest observers of American culture in the 1970s and 1980s. I rank him right up there with Tom Wolfe. “The Neighbor’s Wife” was an excellent book. I’ve meant to re-read it.

I was not discovered "in flagrante delicto" but my Mom and Dad were presented with circumstantial evidence by the dog. While my girlfriend and I were alone in the house, the dog took off with the used condom in his mouth. Neither of us could determine to where the beast had carried the thing. Later that evening, after girlfriend had left, the dog put the condom at my dad's feet. My Dad said, "you and I need to have a talk."

Sun&Moon, thank you for your opinions on the matter. We have mulled over the possiblity, with new information that has come to light to us, that the couple (Bill and Ann)each had the following in their backstory: *Bill had been married before for 11 years, and he and his previous wife were in the LS. They divorced two years ago. * Ann has been a unicorn for a couple for 4 years ago, for a period of about 2 years. she then took a break from the LS to try and go vanilla for a bit. *Ann while she was a unicorn, was a sub to the husband who was her Master. *Bill and Ann have only been together about 6 months, they are not married, but are in fact GF and Boyfriend. With this new info we gathered from asking around, we realize that their issue maybe that being in a new relationship, may be their whole cause of why Ann was unresponsive / talkative to me in our chats. As you said "maybe she doesn't want to get too heated in the group chat so her own husband doesn't worry," in a new relationship with someone, I can see that being the possibility. We continue our search and continue to grow and love as a couple. Thanks to all for the responses.

Thank You all for the responses and advice. After some discussion last night, we decided to end it, and politely told them "we do not believe we are the couple for you. Nest of luck finding what you desire". For now my wife says to give her a few days to get over it, so I'm giving her her space. She keeps trying to rationalize it, believing still that no one would go to all the trouble to show up to a date to just concede to let their spouse have what they want. But I explained to her, from reading up on the LS, it can and seems to happen a lot. Eventually through time, she will get over it and we will continue to look until we find the right one.

Red Flags, we would walk away. If all parties are not that in to each other then someone is making a concession so the other can get what they want. That is a selfish act and we do not like being around selfish people, plus it sounds like the man is playing your wife.

One of our 'golden' rules is that if either of us isn't 'feeling' it, is that we will walk away...no explanation necessary. It's HARD to find a four way match but when you do, its AWESOME. Talk to your wife about this and that you just aren't feeling it with the other woman and start looking for your next couple. Going forward is probably not end up with you having a positive experience. Don't think that you are going to 'take one for the team'...never a good plan. Good luck and we wish you success the next time.

We've learned over a decade and a half in this hobby that we don't owe anybody anything other than general courtesy. A simple, "this isn't working for us" should be sufficient. Then block the numbers. You still may have a bigger problem if, as you describe, your wife is really enamored with this guy. He is clearly playing you both.

Red, RED flags everywhere in this post.