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We kind of stay away from the clubs for this very reason. We WANT to go more often, but the closest club to us is 2 hours away and we are also morning people. We live on a ranch and I can't remember the last time we weren't awake by 7am (usually earlier) and really ready for bed by 10. Going to a club then means most likely staying overnight in a hotel (not a big deal but it does require a bit more prep and planning), but when we are already fading at 10pm (and the club only opened at 9)...well, by midnight we are DONE. If a club opened earlier...say 7pm, we would be there! Problem with that is most people have it programmed into their heads that the party doesn't start until late (midnight or later) and so they just don't go until late. We actually enjoy playing in the afternoon. This way there's no rush or time crunch. Laying around the pool relaxing, BBQ some dinner, just having a good time and good conversation without any pressure is the way to do 'it' (plus it's much easier to see what is going on ). Once you've tried this, most will find that this is a great way to play. Until our 'local' club starts having an 'early bird' opening, we will continue to not attend as often as we would like. We wish we could attend more, but our bodies say otherwise (I feel like we're asking for a Dennys senior early bird menu here...ugh!). Getting old does have some drawbacks (although neither of us would be swingers if we were any younger)...

First off (as already pointed out) confidence is very sexy...more than looks to some people. Work together on trying to become more confident and open. Second, don't waste a bunch of time with emails or texts online. If you find a couple that you think you may be interested in, set up a meeting with them for dinner or drinks. You will learn more in 5 minutes in person than you ever will learn about them online. This also quickly eliminates the flakes and fakes. We've met a bunch of couples where one of them were 'doing this for their SO to get it out of their system' or just didn't know what their SO was even planning. While couples like that are a waste of time, most won't ever agree to even meet (and the 'bad' couples do make funny stories to tell in the future). Don't just pick couples based on the pictures. Pictures can (and sometimes will) be old or misrepresentative of who they actually are. Plus, confidence is sexy. Personality is sexy. Humor is sexy. Lots of things other than looks are sexy. We have met some drop dead looking couples in the past who had personalities of a damp dish rag or just loved themselves more than life itself (everything is all about them). No thank you, next. Don't take lack of interest as a rejection either. If there isn't a spark, there just isn't a spark and pursuing things further isn't going to change that. They are doing you a favor if they are not interested. This can be tough since sometimes you will think a couple is perfect and you both feel a spark only to find out that they aren't interested. It's not personal, move on and think of the time they saved you. Finding a four way match is MUCH harder than finding your SO. You liked them and they liked you...simple. But finding another couple...you have to like both of them and they have to like both of you (4 squared instead of just 2). It's hard...but it is fantastic when you find that couple that matches up with you both. The effort is worth it when it happens. Sometimes it's good to take a break looking and come back after awhile. Putting too much effort into finding another couple can take away the effort you are putting into each other. Take your time, don't become too obsessed with looking, and just enjoy that you and your SO are even able to consider walking this path together. Very few people ever get to where this is an option. Take a deep breath and come back in a few weeks and see what you may find, or try visiting a club or house party as something different. There's not as many real frogs as you would think in the pond, but somewhere there is the perfect frogs for you. Sometimes you just have to wait until everyone is ready to hop. Good luck and let us know how things go for you.

Latest update!!! Yes First of all I like to thank everyone who put their thoughts and comments, greatly appreciated, yes we had been communicating a lot and I expressed my concerns regarding this specific SM experience,and all that went on, she agreed and did apologize for not being understanding, we agreed that this specific SM it’s just not fit for our kink/ fantasy, because of lots of things just didn’t match up to our liking, but we are still having fun and did had some other experience with a SM which we played once before and everything was just sexy and Perfect, so we put the bad experience behind and looking to have more fun to be had, Thanks again for everyone’s support/ Comments

I really feel for you. Meeting people on swinging and dating sites is incredibly hard. My wife and I have been on a site for a few years, and would offer a couple of observations from our experience - at least half of the 'couples' on these sites have no real intention of meeting or being with other people. They are there to socialize or are fakes. So when things don't work out with them, its not them rejecting you... they simply don't exist in the capacity you are imagining them to exist in - energy and openness is much more important than attraction. We've been to Desire (a 5 star lifestyle resort in Mexico) a bunch of times and one of the things that really strikes me about the lifestyle is how open people are to different body shapes and appearances. There are (of course) many who place huge preference on looks, but there seems be far more who just want fun, friendly, sexy people. - examine how you 'present yourself' . My wife is a master at this. Whenever she enters a room (vanilla or otherwise) she radiates a positive, friendly energy. As a result, people are absolutely drawn to her. Its not her looks necessarily (although she's lucky to be attractive) its the energy she puts out when she's in a room of people. You say you lack confidence... we all do to some extent. But there is training and tips to allow you to still present yourself as confident, friendly, open .. even if you are not 100% feeling that way And I final point... I was intrigued by you saying that your vanilla friends feel like 'half friends'. Have you ever thought about why that is? Its trite to say (but soooo true) you need to be a good friend to have good friends. Do you show yourself to the 'there' for your friends when they need you. Do you go out of your way to do ice things for friends. Are you 100% open and honest with them. These are the things that deeper friendships are built on

As I've said before, four of the five swinging partners my wife and I shared were couples who were already friends. And we didn't have any issues with any of them. For me, there's just something comfortable about a new sex partner being an old friend that I already found appealing. And, hey, the fact that I knew, and trusted, the other husband made me a lot more comfortable about him being with my wife. One of my favorite experiences was about the fifth time we played with one of those couples. We all loaded into a customized van and drove 500 miles together for a three day weekend at the beach. I remember how fun it was when I was driving and my wife and the other husband went to the back to play. His wife and I watched and coached them from the front seats. Then he took over the driving and my wife took the front passenger seat while the other wife and I had our turn in the back. Now with strangers, I'm not sure it would have been as much fun. After our little swap, we all laughed and talked about vanilla things we'd done together on the trip down. And, when we got there we had adjoining rooms. We drank and danced in the club with our own and each others partners. We slept in each of the rooms those three nights, sometimes with our own spouses, sometimes with the other spouses, sometimes in our own beds, and sometimes in the other beds. It was just four good friends enjoying an exciting long weekend together. I also, fondly, remember the trip home in that van. There was no sex involved and we played name-that-tune singing oldies together. The only reason that friendship finally ended was because we moved far away and, after a few years of seeing each other only once or twice a year, we just sort of lost contact. If you think about it, the best non-sexually friends you've ever had were ones you felt free to discuss sex with, right? Well, what better folks to have sex with?

I didn’t know what to expect when I visited a nude beach. I can’t respond to the fact that there is sex at Cherry Lane, I can say that on the beach I have gone to there were no outwardly sexual activity. People on the beach tend to be older than me and my friends. I do think people do gawk but for the most part nude is not sexual. My first time there I did look. Yes plenty of overweight people. I think even thin people can look awkward nude. I would say most people on the beach aren’t there to show off their bodies or even care what others look like. Once you are comfortable being publicly nude the experience is about feeling good. Who is this writer to judge the people she is gawking at? I think she has deep seeded problems. If she went to do an unbiased report then she failed. Maybe she is denial with her own body and sexuality. Who needs people like this “reporting” on other people’s enjoyment.

Guys, If you come out to a club on single guy night don't be a wallflower or a creeper. Engage, be charming and be able to perform. Women still want to be seduced and made to feel hot and sexy and wanted. It's frustrating that she has to do most of the work to seduce you then when she get's you where you she wants you it's over in 5 minutes. That is all.

Yes, Sure I'm reliving it. I'm thinking about and reliving the experience not thinking about a particular person so I'm not fantasizing about that particular person. I'm more fantasizing about the experience with my wife and how much I enjoyed seeing her pleasure. Whenever I think about the experiences we've had it always focuses on her getting pleasure from them. We are always within reach of each other if in a full swap and will very often touch or hold hands. While it's going on I will pay attention to my partner but what I remember more is about my wife. We don't look for multiple encounters. We like the anonymous aspect to an extent. Sure we'll get to know them a bit before having sex but we aren't trying to make friends out of them. I'll edit to add that we don't fantasize about an encounter every time we have sex. It happens but more often than not we are making love only to one another. The thoughts will sometimes pop into my head, most of the time they don't. When they do I can usually push them out and go back to focusing on her. Sometimes she'll bring something up during sex but it will be more a fantasy than reliving a past experience. She's asked me what position I would like to have her in next time we are with a single guy or what kind of woman I'd like to have next time. Things like that.

Most lottery tickets are not winners...Swinging with friends (IOHO) is like buying a lottery ticket. For some it has worked out great, but most of the time it will lead to disappointment. The price of the ticket (for us) isn't worth the potential winnings. Not saying that others will have the same result, but if you choose to travel this path, be aware of the potential problems from the start.

This is a great discussion and you have an incredible amount of insight to him as well as introspection. It's too bad you've opened Pandora's box by agreeing to something you weren't totally comfortable with. You've got to work through it together and you have to decide what you are going to be comfortable with. That's a very fluid environment though. As you progress you may become more excited about he prospects of just sex, you may enjoy the thrill of a flirty chase for an evening culminating in hot sex and even better reclamation sex. You may better understand that variety, even in sex, is the spice of life and you can separate it from feeling like you have to be in love with the person in order to have sex with them. If you are willing to accept those possibilities then he needs to understand that he needs to put on the brakes and let you catch up. Catching up was something my wife had to get across to me with a 2 x 4. I had some experience in the lifestyle before we met. When we met I made it clear that I wanted to pursue more. She was on board with that so I thought it was full steam ahead. Being on board didn't mean the same thing to us. To her it meant having an open mind, discussing my experiences, finding out what I wanted, reading about it and eventually dipping her toes in the water. All along she was getting comfortable with how I reacted to situations, did I flip out or was I supportive. Fantasy talk while having sex, getting to know what we both found appealing. Once, after expressing frustration with how slowly things were moving she simply told me that I had done this before and she hadn't. That made sense to me. I gave her time to catch up. I am that guy that sex with one woman will never be enough for. My wife understood this and better understands it now that she has had her own taste. It's about experiences. I'll never love anyone else but I damn sure like to flirt and tease and look at and have sex with other women. I want the variety. My wife is filet mignon to me. She is a great partner, a wonderful friend, she's beautiful, bright, sexy, and intelligent and she let's me have variety. Sometimes, though, I want some pasta, a nice salad or maybe just a sandwich. She can't be all those things and for me to put that expectation on her is unfair to us both. She is a great seductress and she has fun making guys squirm. I like watching her do that to other guys. She likes the feeling of being desired and she likes the payoff of getting a good fucking with a hard cock that's not mine. It's exciting. She has mentioned several times recently that she wants to fuck a black guy. Well, I certainly can't be that for her and I'm completely cool with it because I know it's just something different she wants to try. I think for her, being able to get out of her comfort zone and going down on a guy for the first time as I was watched was really liberating. There were no repercussions afterward. Nothing negative. It was just hot for us both. She sometimes asks me if I feel like I created a monster. No, not at all. I've just given her the freedom to explore what she couldn't before. To say there is no emotion involved is not exactly accurate. There is emotion. There is excitement and nervousness, there is pride in being able to overcome that voice our society has built into us that says it's wrong. There is desire and lust. I feel those butterflies when there is a mutual attraction to someone else and especially knowing there is a chance we'll have sex. It's lust though, not love. It's endorphins and adrenaline. It's physiological. It's like being a teenager all over again. Then when it's over that lust for her is gone as well. I know she's gone back to her man. I have the woman I truly love and the emotions I feel from that are indescribable. Anytime we swap or have a third join us the reclamation sex is amazing. Talking about our experiences and fantasizing about new ones gives us primacy and stability that someone else mentioned. It's not always gone smoothly for us but it has never been anything to do with someone else. It's been the two of us not communicating as well as we should have. working through those little issues has strengthened us and improved our communication. Knowing that we are giving each other these experiences makes us happy. Compersion is finding joy and happiness in someone else's joy and happiness. It's the opposite of jealousy and successful swinging couples have compersion.

Sexy people for me are those who are there to play, doesn't have as much to do with age or looks as it does attitude. I would think that finding a babysitter would be easier for normal hours(say til midnight) than someone planning on coming home at 4am. Now that you bring that up we did meet one couple who was looking for FF only. She and my wife played briefly mostly kissing and breast play then they said they had to go home because the baby sitter had to be home at a certain time. I guess the last explanation is the most logical. Things just don't get started because there are so few there. I think maybe that there's a "the girls all get prettier at closing time" effect going on where people don't decide who they want to pursue until they feel like all options have showed up and/or time is running out. I do appreciate everyone's reply.

Thanks so much for your replies. No worries at all, Introvert. It helps immensely to hear other’s stories. I’m sorry you’re struggling. Sucks that he worded it as such that he’s not ‘satisfied’, as I’m sure hurting you wasn’t his intention. What I learned in poly is not that we are not enough, it is simply that we can’t be expected to provide and BE everything to one person. The author Esther Perel has a great Ted Talk that explains the theory of why people cheat, that’s quite enlightening. We are the lucky ones, to have an open dialogue with our spouses on the topic. Perhaps your husband needs a lesson in how to present things, because beauty- you are definitely enough. Alexandsandra- yup. You’re right, I am the problem. Swinging wildly between ‘go, be free, do you!’ to ‘no, just say no, I’m all you need, just fuck me more!’ It’s childish and terribly confusing for him. I’m working on it. As he told me last night, I need to just take my mind out of it. It’s sex, nothing more. I am trying to believe him when he says there is no emotion in it for him. What a fucking robot. But I do know him to be a very tough cookie to crack, and he lets very few people ‘in’. He loves to please, he loves to provide pleasure, he loves feeling good at something (who doesn’t). I guess I just need to jump in. Sawman- I appreciate your idea, but choosing a playmate is a hard no for me. Far too close to poly for my comfort level. This has to be about pure fuckery, or it won’t work for me at this time in my life. As 1999 thoughtfully mentioned, the primacy aspect of our relationship is still so shaky. I feel it, I know it, but there are so many factors still at play that create a feeling of instability regardless of our commitment to one another. Your original reaction of deciding to be present is likely the best one for us. Well, the best for me. How selfish of me, really. Sigh...

Yes-- making me laugh is the easiest way into my pants other than feeding me! Put me at ease.

As I read your post, the words that keep going through my mind is 'primacy' and 'stability'. I read an article in Psychology Today recently that explained why - physiologically - people are jealous early in relationships. Its because they are not yet confident that they have stable primacy and acts that pull that primacy into question shake them. Your situation is tough.. you have primacy and you feel stability, yet it seems that this [pretty much unilateral] decision of his to seek another couple when he travelled, may be margin you feel as though you're not as primary as you think. I think the idea of only playing when you are together is a good one. It makes it a shared experience.

And one thing I'd like to add about that couple. Now I've probably said this here on some other thread but... This was a couple that we'd gone out with many times. We'd had them over to our home and had gone to their home many times. There was no secret that he found my wife appealing, she found him appealing, and his wife and I had always flirted a bit. Well imagine the excitement when one evening we were talking about people and a man's name was mentioned by one of us. This man happened to be a single swinger and there was no other way for the person, I can't remember which of us, who said his name would know him other than from swinging. There was a long moment of silence while the four of us digested the situation. Then the smiles began to creep over all four of our faces. As enjoyable as our conversations had always been, the conversations that followed were even better. We didn't have sex that night. But, talk about being on cloud nine knowing that we were all going to fulfill some desires with each other in the near future. I have no idea what they talked about after we left that night but my wife and I sure talked a lot about how we were looking forward to being in bed with them.

To be honest, it's all on you and your wife. Communicate with her and tell her how you really feel. If I have never met you and I can sense you're not into the fact they want to play alone... But you haven't voiced that to your wife... There's a problem. If you allow it before you're COMPLETELY ready to, it will create a world of mistrust, questions, anger, and ultimately arguments and resentment. Your mind will go wild while it's actually happening, if you're having these feelings and it hasn't yet. And more often than not your mind and gut feelings are correct (even if they're not... If you can understand that). My advice: imagine the worst case scenario for you, of them playing alone. Is that something you can stomach? If not.. tell her. If so... Fuck it. Let him fuck the wife alone and try to enjoy it.

Honestly, I get where this topic and content is coming from, but I can imagine it's a little bit of a drawback approaching a couple where the man is scowling around at all the single guys. On single guys nights, I'm sure it could feel like a sort of "meat show" to the single guys, where they might feel as if they're being judged on looks alone, and if not approached, no one is interested in them. I'd say on this topic... The candle burns at both ends. We as couple's should also try to mingle more, instead of sitting with our partners, drinks in hand, staring around the room like lost kittens waiting to be collared by the pussy catcher (lol). And as men, we should try to give our women space to mingle herself.Let her mix it up with a nice (or not so nice lol) guy and bring him back to you for an introduction. Because wether hes an Alpha or not, it's intimidating to approach a woman with her husband/bf sitting right beside her. Sorry to intrude. Just my thoughts

YES! We are early risers (generally by 5am most days). I require more sleep than most people, so we are usually in bed by 8pm. If I am out and about, I have a better chance at staying awake, but the clubs here don't open until 9pm. No one arrives or starts playing until after midnight. Even on the nights when the club opens at 7:30pm. It is so frustrating. Even outside the clubs, couples we meet want to do things late. I would much prefer to get the ball rolling earlier in the day. On weekends, mid day sex? Why not? Staying up that late really throws me off for a few days. I disagree about it being better than Netflix and popcorn. I am a homebody at heart. I'd rather just stay at home and do our own thing. We don't have much luck at local clubs anyways, but the husband likes the environment and atmosphere. I like the music (when they play good music) part of the atmosphere. And pretending that, (as long as I don't look around too much and spoil the illusion) there are people there that find me desirable.

Me and the wife had dabbled a bit and been to a few swingers clubs but mostly kept to each other and observed. Well last sat night had a nice surprise to it. We entered a club and although it was early we noticed that the crowd was a little thin. Not knowing anyone or how things operated we got a few drinks and settled in by the couch area where we mostly talked, kissed a bit and did some light touching. My wife looked hot as hell, decked out in high heels, a mini skit with no panties and a tight top that really showed off her nice breasts. After a few hot rounds of making out and fondling, we decided to check out the rest of the club. The room in the back consisted of several beds and couches, a few guys were getting blow jobs from their ladies and we watched a bit, but weren't quite ready to join in so we went back to the bar area where our night got interesting. We bellied up next to this couple, lets call them Steve and Amy. Amy was very friendly and we said hello, then asked if they frequented the club often. After some small talk I told them we were newbies, but we both had talked about trying our swinging, but that my wife was nervous. Amy took some real mercy on my wife and gave her the low down about the lifestyle and about how everything is ok if you do what you want and how you want in your comfort zone. We took to them right away. Amy went to ask my wife if she was bi-curious. Knowing that she was, she replied yes and Amy went over to her and gave her a hot kiss that instantly got me hard. My wife was shaking from it, but Amy told her to relax and calmed her down rather quickly. We then talked a bit more, and told them we were going to go and hang on the couches again, as I wanted to see how my wife was feeling about what just happened. She seemed okay with it all and we started making out again, she was so wet so I knew that she enjoyed the kiss. After a little longer I asked if she wanted to go play in the back rooms. She agreed and we went and found a couch. After some kissing and fooling around in the back room Amy came around the corner and started watching us go at it. We both caught a glimpse of her in-between kissing and I knew she was going to make a move. My wife looked at me and said we have company. Amy came in front of my wife and smiled at us both then leaned over to give her a kiss. The both of them made out so passionately I though I was going to cum just from watching them. Amy then leaned over and kissed me too. Then she got on her knees and asked my wife's permission to lick her pussy. My wife had no hesitation and she started going down on her. I went to work kissing her and sucking and playing with her tits. My wife was in heaven even prompting Amy to stop and say she is so wet. We both smiled and Amy said she wasn't stopping till my wife came. My wife orgasmed and then Amy stopped and the two of them kissed even more. My cock was now out and throbbing and my wife was stroking me as she kissed Amy. Amy left and went back to the bar area and my wife sucked me till I finished. We went back to the bar after and talked to them more and said our goodbye. We exchanged numbers and they want to meet us again for more intimate dinner and drinks the next time. I'd love to see my wife and Amy go further next time. The only thing is, we don't find her husband Steve attractive, he's a bit overweight and just not our thing. We don't want to judge but I am sure my wife is not looking to get involved with him. I suppose we will just have to tell them how it is and see what they say. I'm hopeful the ladies can play and then us gents can give it our own ladies good for the next time. Swinging is so much fun, can't wait to try it again.

Well said. I absolutely agree. Single guys roaming around a club or party can really come across as creepy and unappealing. I mean, seriously, make me laugh, tell a joke, show some of your personality. Prove to me your a human being at the very least. Jeez.

Congratulations! You have clearly described a common pathway in the LS. From the outside looking in (aka vanillas, interesteds, just about to dip the toe, breathless reporters,.. )the LS is all about sex. That's what is talked about, envied, disparaged, ... From the inside looking out, the LS is all about your primary relationship with your spouse or S/O, and how that journey unfolds. For a few in the LS, it really is "all about sex". For many others, it is about building relationships with like-minded couples. The friendship piece really does matter. Trust, intimacy, honesty in a space where no one is embarrassed to be having fun\. Compare that to the issues of ordinary life.