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I agree with Icmim. Be sure of the intended style of play up front. Make sure the other couple intends to "swap" (whether full or soft) if that's what you intend to do. So she's getting all the attention. Does it not bother her that you are left on the sidelines? You need to be doing this as a team and just as you are there to make sure she is safe and getting what she wants she needs to be attentive that you are getting what you want. If you are bringing this up and she's not getting that part they may be more discussion needed until she does. Also it sounds as if you may be a little timid and by your own admission you are insecure. That can lead to being easy manipulated by unscrupulous couples who want to get to your wife. I think it can also be a turn off for a lot of women in the lifestyle. My wife likes to feel desired and she likes to be told, flat out, that a guy would like to have some time with her. Be assertive in making it known what you want, not only to potential play partners but to your wife also. You can do that without being a jerk about it.

That newness is something that we obviously naturally lose with our SO and it's not possible to get it back. Familiarity can make for great sex too but it's different. We swing for the variety, the newness. Some people cheat because they want to feel that endorphin rush of falling in lust again. That rush can make sex feel totally different that familiar sex. It can be something you've never done before. It can be exciting because it's just outside of our comfort zone. It can be kinky or naughty or animalistic and our responses to those situations, if we aren't holding back for fear of what our SO thinks, will likely be very different than it is during familiar sex. I remember our first swap. I loved watching my wife go down on the guy. As they were standing and kissing she managed to get his cock out of his pants. She squatted down and started blowing him. He was bigger than me which was great. She ended up on her back with him going down on her and after a while I heard her tell him that she needed to feel that big cock inside of her. He didn't respond immediately because he was really enjoying what he was doing. She told him again, almost begging him to fuck her "with that big cock". It was hot to hear it at the time in the heat of things but it also stung just a little. She's never said that to me the way she said it to him. Later that night we had sex again and she told me my cock feels best. I think it actually stung a little more at the time. I thought about it over the course of about a week wavering from feeling a twinge of something, jealousy?, inadequacy?. But then I realized it was hot for her to have a bigger cock and that's ok, that's why we do this, for these different experiences. I want her to have as big of a cock as she wants, as much pleasure as she can handle and I want her to get totally absorbed in the experience. When I get to reclaim her the sex is rarely familiar.

It is reasonable to ask whether you, at first, did not understand the true interests of the other couple. If their focus does not match with the two of you, and they did not intentionally deceive then no harm no foul. If they did deceive intentionally then they are toxic. In either case the simple answer is play elsewhere. If they just need clarity and they are worth the trouble then work it out with them. Remember that you said you had to tell your wife, so they might be clueless. They might not be aware that you feel that way. Your wife can help direct them if you choose to continue with them. Last thought: (YOU)"BUT I am not the person that would in any way force anyone to do something they don't want to" I have the same problem and need to remind myself that expressing a desire is not the same as forcing anyone.

Lioness, I think you've answered your own question. -- Peter

I agree with all of the above advice. Establish what is expected with each person in advance. There have been times when only my wife played with a couple while I watched, but we knew this was the deal beforehand and we fucked great afterwards.

That's awesome. Have fun!

Crap... How could I forget to mention important info like that... No penetration has taken place and nowhere in the near future is that in our plans as we get more than enough satisfaction from the build-up and the soft play... Each evening has either started with a massage or games and has turned into a oral playground... what happened with these two events is that somewhere after things got hot attention from the other couple moves fully on my wife. While I enjoy this, by the time she reach climax, she doesn't have energy in playing for a while and I don't mind that because the smile and satisfaction I see in her eyes makes up for it.. It is more the fact that it almost feels like I am just there to help them get my wife naked and then they can take over and ignore me... Just to update.. we have discussed it again since doing the post and have decided to play with another couple before reading too much into this and if it doesn't happen again, then we know the gut feeling I had was correct. My only concern is dealing with the mind and emotions so that I don't create what I fear at the moment when we play with someone else!

I know I'm replying to an old thread, but it's a good one (and we were away from the board for some time, trying to catch up). Maybe the other man is better at a certain technique. I remember one of my former lovers: She and I had this incredible sexual position that drove us both wild. It never worked with another lover--it was good with others, but not the same electricity. There's a certain excitement about exploring a new lover, whether it's just sex (swinging, for example or making love for the first few times with someone who might turn out to be a significant other. If the lady of my life had an extra-wild orgasm with a man we were in a MFM with (I'm straight) or when we were swapping with another couple, I'd love for her to tell me later what the man did to drive her wild. I'd ask, "Is this something you'd like us to try? If so, please teach me." If we're sharing an MFM or swapping with a couple, I would hope we'd all have great sex. And yes, I'd be more than happy knowing what we just encountered was a shared sexual experience, not a looking-for-love experience. After getting home, I would love to cuddle. If that would lead to more--she might be too sensitive, or I might...who knows?--then all the better. Bottom line: If playing with moresomes, let's hope all have great orgasms! Geo

If someone disrespected you anywhere else, in any way, how would you react? I am in my 6th decade now, and a bit of a slow learner, but I have finally gotten to a place that if anyone disrespects me in any way, I move on. In some situations (like with family or co-workers) it can be a bit more tricky to not seem rude (like just ignoring them), but in any event, I send them packing, even it just in my mind. It is a self preservation thing. "Words may hurt, but silence kills." Timbuk3 - Shotgun Wedding

one less than too many

Thank you for all the advice. I’ve connected with a very nice older couple that knows it’s new to us and asked if they would be willing to meet and talk with us about the LS and the do’s and dont’s. We’ll be meeting with them next week.

Matt may not be ready to make a decision but if this other woman has reason to believe she is his one and only then he needs to clarify with her before what he thinks is swinging is really cheating. You don’t say if Amanda knows of this other woman, but trying to keep too many secrets can get messy and build more resentment later. When I first started swinging I found out my FWB had another long term girlfriend. I knew there were other women and that wasn’t a problem, but cheating is. I ended it, no ultimatum. He asked me to stay friends as he was leaving the girlfriend for someone else much younger. He cheats on her, chronically fears her cheating on him. I have new friends. My usual FWB had dinner last week with the partner of my new playmate. We are adults having a wonderful time.

I wanted to call out this portion of your post in particular. People who are not swingers do not understand swinging. It's a complete unknown to them and generally incomprehensible. It is almost universally reviled. I would refrain from discussing swinging with anyone who is not a swinger. All you will get is negative. Sure, that means discussing swinging with only swingers, who will only give you positive. Take your pick I guess. A story; there's a woman I know whom I dated many, many years ago. She and I were very close, and almost got married. The love remained, though the relationship itself faltered. She and I are still exceptionally close. My wife knew about her early on, and has always been in the loop about her. She lives quite some distance away now, and from time to time I've gone to visit her alone. My family has visited her as well. Nothing untoward has ever happened. Now, over the last couple of years my friend has been maintaining an on-again-off-again FWB situation with a guy she knows. This guy is married, and is cheating on his wife. He and his wife are living hours apart from each other, but are not separated; they are still together, and notionally husband/wife. Somewhat recently, sparks started to re-emerge between my friend and I. It's always been banter, and light hearted. But, it's there. We both feel it. My wife and I discussed it, and she was quite agreeable to me pursuing a physical relationship with my friend in addition to the love that was already there. So, I approached my friend about it and let her know that we are non-monogamous, and opened the door to having a physical relationship. She rejected it out of hand, with disdain, shock, sorrow. She could not imagine doing that with me, a married man who was playing with permission, but could imagine it (and was doing it) with a married man who didn't have permission. Surprisingly, this is typical. Our society finds cheating spouses to be far, far, far more acceptable than spouses who are playing with permission. Go figure. But, that's informative in regards to discussing swinging with people who are not swingers.

My advise is to go with the other side that is telling you honesty is the best policy. He needs to figure out what he wants out of this new relationship. I think you need to cut him loose to allow him the space to do that without complications. Make the decision for him because he probably can't when his little head is doing the thinking. Amanda should too but since she's not asking... I had a similar situation when I was a single guy. I was seeing a couple on a regular basis. Their relationship was one of the ones that made it so intriguing for me to find a woman that had an interest in building a relationship that could allow swinging. When I told the woman I was talking to someone she had some of the same feelings, we had a great time together and it was just sex, fun and no extraneous bs. After a couple of dates and filling her in on the status she finally told me that I should devote my time to my new girlfriend and that if we ended up in the lifestyle she would love to meet us together. It has felt kind of weird to me in a way so I never looked her back up. I guess more than anything I think the two women probably wouldn't have the best chemistry. Bottom line is I appreciated kind of being dumped because, at the time, I was having a blast but it wouldn't have worked out in the end and I would have tried to keep both options open which meant I wasn't completely honest with my new woman or myself about what I wanted. My little head was doing the thinking. I would have had to come clean and probably wouldn't be in the great relationship I have today. Yes, my wife knew I had been in the lifestyle as a single guy and had played with couples but she doesn't know many of the details. She's never asked.

This weekend sort of brought me back to the weekend where it all began. Two years ago after a football game the weather was so bad I ended up sharing a room and a bed with my college roommate and her guy friend. So much has happened since that night. I got married, found a side of me I never knew existed and found a new lifestyle. I am so happy that I found this board and had a sounding platform for some of my deepest thoughts and experiences. Thank you all for helping me through some dark thoughts and directed me to a much brighter time. I look forward to sharing my experiences that might help others on their journey.

OK, another thought. The next time it happens you might just say, "As I've said before, I'm not a swinger. But, honestly, even if I were a swinger I wouldn't play with you."

That's bad behaviour - whether it comes from a swinger or not is irrelevant, it is inappropriate and inconsiderate to keep making advances to someone who's not interested. What to do? Step 1 - a polite no, step 2 - a pointed joke, step 3 - tell him to fuck off, but if all else fails - just find new friends. Most swingers are actually quite used to hearing no and deal with it very well, I'm sorry that's not the case with your friends.

Babies come out of there. Just let him know of your concern (he'll be flattered), go easy, and all will be fine.

Thanks, all. I really appreciate the responses. I guess I have to remember that if he were thinking about something similar for a long time and it was new to me, it would take me a while to wrap my head around it, as well. I actually probably wouldn't have taken it as well as he did! I also think my first reaction was, "We'll try this soon!" And after reading these responses and other threads on this board, I'm realizing that for many, the conversation happens over a matter of months or YEARS even before anything takes off (if it does at all). So I guess I really need to be patient and start small. I like the idea of pointing out other potential partners and things of that nature. Just to get comfortable talking about other people and things like that. I respect my husband and would definitely never do anything to make him not trust me. As many of you said, we just need to keep communicating.

DP is still on our bucket list, and this is a great guide to giving it a go and hope to get to put this advice into use some day.

"Better" is a relative term. As said above, I'm not the best at anything (there will always be someone better, no matter who you are), but having sex is and never will be 'making love'. Without the love, everything else is 'just sex', and we love each other. I don't mind if someone is better at some aspect of sex as long as she teaches me what it was he/she did to her that she enjoyed. We're never too old to learn and (maybe) teach someone else a thing or two.

I just wonder if other men get jealous if their wife is enjoying too much. I don't think that we've ever encountered "too much" fun. Good sex is simply that, good sex! If Mrs Doc is having fun, being treated with respect and affection and having orgasms, how could I be jealous. This is recreation and fun for us. On the flip side, she notices when I connect with a partner and really enjoy the woman, she'll even offer, "ohhh, he LIKES that" when she sees something is really working for me. The first time we played with a particular couple, the woman and I got busy and finished before the Mrs and the husband did. I don't know why (other than I really like this woman) but I stayed hard and we started round two immediately. Mrs Doc noticed and stopped boinking to ask "that never happens, tell me what you're doing"? Maybe it was because of this….there was NO jealousy!

We agree with that statement ? % In our opinion there is a big difference in sex and making love. Even if my husband is fucking me hard, we are still making love to each other (you can’t separate that connection). If another man is fucking me even harder...it’s not the same (we have no connection in the heart, could be awesome but never the same) By the way my husband always hopes for someone to fuck me harder...He looks forward into reclaiming what will always be his.

Never better always different!

Male response here: Depends WAS it better? If yes how and why? If it was just better this time I would say your "frisky" response was adequate. THIS time it really worked for you. Next time maybe not. This has nothing to do with your husbands ability and would not be a problem with me. IF this is a big issue for you in that you truly prefer this guy. or IF this guy is just generally superior in some way your husband can not or will not match, then there is need for an honest , all cards face up discussion. I could probably deal with a bigger equipment issue more easily than "I like him better" If you are happy with your husband and could walk away from the other guy for keeps then an honest and functional answer would be " He rocked my world this time. You guys really got me worked up."