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I know this thread is old, but I just wanted to add a couple of things. I never thought of sex as being a "score". If it's great, it's great. If it's not, it's not. There's no objective measure of how 'good' it is. It's entirely subjective. I can have great sex with my wife. I can have great sex with another woman. I am not going to compare the two. How I respond to one woman is different than how I respond to my wife. It's not fair to compare, for anyone. I don't think I want to be in the position of telling my lovers "Sorry honey, but you'll never be as good as my wife" or something like that. In swinging we make comparisons to flavors of ice cream. If you like blackberry, cookie dough, fudge brickle, and mint ice cream...are you really going to compare them on some objective scale? They're all good. I'm not into swinging to replace my wife, nor she me. We're in it to have fun. We have fun with our lovers. That's the point. If someone is feeling insecure, they should say so of course. Communication is key.

Wow, is it quiet on this board this morning. To be expected, I guess, most of us are running around cooking the turkey and getting ready for all the vanilla folk. I hope you have a great day, and remember to thank God, Fate or the deity of your choice for everything you've got. But . . . this is also a special holiday for me. After three years of talking, considering, and screwing around, this weekend is also the anniversary of our entry into the LifeStyle. We were in our early 50's, sex between us was in that blah stage. If we did anything to heighten it, such as going to a bed and breakfast, it would work for a few days then lapse back to yeah-let's-get-it-on-nothing-better-to-do. We had nothing planned for the Thanksgiving weekend, and as we were getting ready to go over to the relatives for the meal, I said to her, "Hey, want to go to a sex club this weekend?" It was said mostly as a joke, but to my surprise she thought for a moment and said, "Yeah, why not." That night after we got home I got on the Internet (very slow at the time, dial-up modem) and found about a couple of swing clubs near us. She got very excited as we talked about it, had a million questions that weren't answered by any FAQ I could find. So early on Friday we called the club we'd selected, it was returned by the owner, he was kind enough to spend at least ten minutes on the phone with us, filling us in. (Thank you, Jim!) We headed for the mall in the Hot Friday shmush, got her a new bra and panty, and a new babydoll. That night we arrived at the club at 8:10, Jim had one of his volunteers take us for a tour of the place, make sure we knew the customs and more importantly the rules. We talked with other couples, watched a girl grind on the dance floor, danced with other people ourselves. Perhaps around 11:00 we got into the hot tub, I remember how excited I was as other men first got a good look at my wife's naked body. We found no one looking to play with us (we found out later it was because we were newbies,) and so we went into a room ourselves and started foreplay. We left the door open, a man came to it, I waved him inside. With our approval, he kissed my wife, felt her tit, exciting us both. I gave her the option to invite him to join us for sex, she declined, wanting our first experience to be a swap. I remember my orgasm was fantastic, all of hers were off the chart. As we drove home, we were so enthusiastic that we made love again that night and a few times the next day. And thus began our long and enjoyable journey into non-monogamy. Happy anniversary to me!

You left them alone. Expecting your wife to intuit your wishes is not fair. Our threesomes start out the first time with myself acting the role of "good host". That means that I allow the play between the playmate and my wife to develop how it may without interference. My level of participation is determined by what happens. I am there for her support and safety first of all. She knows this and always has a good time and lets herself go with the flow between them. I AM participating. It is just not in a sexual way all of the time. Her appreciation is expressed later when we are alone. The second and subsequent times my role becomes progressively more dominant until the playmate and I figure out our own particular dance in pleasing her. By the end of the second time you might be surprised how well we perceive each others signals. From the outside I think it might look like it was choreographed. (G) As a side note we always choose threesome partners together. One of the criteria is whether they have the potential to be called back for repeats. (This is even before any sex play at all. She has to like the guy enough that she would accept a second date on a vanilla level.) The first time is still part of the audition to see how well her responds to her "instruction".( By this I mean does he pick up on differences in her groans. If she says to hard does he instantly try to correct. etc.)

5 years for us. Before I met my wife, I was for a short time part of a poly triad. That helped set the stage for me mentally. I told my wife about this, and she was ...shocked is too strong of a word, but along the way to getting shocked. She said she'd never consider that, and was amazed I'd even tried. She was very black and white about it; it was never going to happen, even if I did suggest it (which, I hadn't...I was just talking about my past). Occasionally it would come up in conversation as our dating, and later married years went on, but it was never serious and was just reflecting on the past. Then, five years and a couple of kids into our marriage, she says something like to me one night; "You know, it would be awesome to have two guys massaging me at the same time" (she loves massages). That was the tip of the snow slide that turned into an avalanche, and resulted in us swinging about six months later. I would have bet a million bucks she would never have wanted that, or even begun to consider it. It's amazing. And no, I didn't talk her into it or anything the like...I would never. We came to it together. Now, she loves it.

That newness is something that we obviously naturally lose with our SO and it's not possible to get it back. Familiarity can make for great sex too but it's different. We swing for the variety, the newness. Some people cheat because they want to feel that endorphin rush of falling in lust again. That rush can make sex feel totally different that familiar sex. It can be something you've never done before. It can be exciting because it's just outside of our comfort zone. It can be kinky or naughty or animalistic and our responses to those situations, if we aren't holding back for fear of what our SO thinks, will likely be very different than it is during familiar sex. I remember our first swap. I loved watching my wife go down on the guy. As they were standing and kissing she managed to get his cock out of his pants. She squatted down and started blowing him. He was bigger than me which was great. She ended up on her back with him going down on her and after a while I heard her tell him that she needed to feel that big cock inside of her. He didn't respond immediately because he was really enjoying what he was doing. She told him again, almost begging him to fuck her "with that big cock". It was hot to hear it at the time in the heat of things but it also stung just a little. She's never said that to me the way she said it to him. Later that night we had sex again and she told me my cock feels best. I think it actually stung a little more at the time. I thought about it over the course of about a week wavering from feeling a twinge of something, jealousy?, inadequacy?. But then I realized it was hot for her to have a bigger cock and that's ok, that's why we do this, for these different experiences. I want her to have as big of a cock as she wants, as much pleasure as she can handle and I want her to get totally absorbed in the experience. When I get to reclaim her the sex is rarely familiar.

It sounds like Matt needs to decide if he is willing to be in a monogamous relationship with his new lady. You know the old "how you going to keep them down on the farm after they've seen Paris". Matt is your friend first and your playmate second. As a friend, I'd sit down and discuss all of this with him. You, Matt, your husband and Amanda are fine with what you've had. Who knows if new lady would be or not until she's asked? Matt should ask her if she's looking for an exclusive relationship and, if she says yes, then he has a decision to make. I'm wondering if he could give up the FWB situation he's enjoyed for quite a while now. And, if he things he could, for how long? He could end up resenting this new lady for causing him to lose wonderful friends.

Short answer, yes. I regard to establishing swing relationships, I have almost from the beginning believed, "fuck first; friendship often follows." Among friendships that have developed, it is very difficult to bullshit people with whom you are intimate and it is difficult for them to bullshit you. Makes for truly sincere relationships.

Well I went through with it, I love it and can’t wait for these to heal up so my husband can enjoy them.

Merry Christmas everyone. Thank you all for the a great present, your advice. I agree with all of you who said that talking is the most important thing in a relationship. Last night we stayed home. Just the two of us. Tired after shopping we decided we needed to just chill. We were just mindlessly watching TV. I felt it was a perfect time to talk. I said we need an honest talk about swinging. We talked about the different things we liked and we talked about some of what we didn’t. Then I asked him why he asked if I thought our friend was better than him. He said he didn’t mean it like that. I just answered Honest. Then he said he did think about some of the guys being better. Then he said I have to be honest. I said the sex that time was just great. I never thought of it as better. I just thought of it as great and that we have had plenty of great sex plenty of times. I asked him if he enjoys me having great sex, isn’t that what both want. I asked him if he has met anyone bettter than me. I think he understood where I was going. Talking is good.

More important is my original question and I think I have answered the question. Our guy friend is not better. I had my doubts about letting him into our bed the first time. He is too close to us and too much could go wrong. Being my husband is the one who suggested it I didn’t think of it as him being jealous. My doubts was I didn’t want to be used by our friend as something he could do when he didn’t have someone. He is a great guy and a great friend. I didn’t want to strain anything. Jealousy wasn’t the issue when we were with others. I tell him what was good. He has seen me orgasm with others. I do orgasm. I talk more about the girlfriends. I get a big excitement making a girlfriend orgasm and I know he loves watching that. Back to our friend. He is very verbal. He knows I am fine with most of what he says. No calling me a slut or whore. Pussy, ass even the C word is all in fun. I can be verbal and turn it up for him. My husband knows this and we have joked about it. Last week when my husband left the bedroom nothin changed. He knows I kiss during sex. We were going pretty strong I orgasmed and I got real dirty and asked for more. I was having another one and he was about to. It’s possible I was louder than normal. It was very very hot. I do know though that wasn’t the any better than we have a few times a week. I have been honest with my husband and we are a happy couple

I don't care if a guy is more handsome, more well hung, or better in bed than me. I'm the one she loves and I'm the one she's coming home to every night.

Never better always different!