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Cleve, I invite you to read history. The pilgrims were not rejected from England, they voluntarily left to go to the Netherlands and then to Plymouth Colony. Their underlying rationale for this was economic betterment, not religious separatism. In fact, the colony had a number of people who were not Pilgrims called Separatists who were tolerated. I'm not saying that the society was always the most tolerant, but to blame our present problems on a mistaken view of a long lost people seems problematic to me.

You've had NO swinger experience. So you're not a swinger. I can walk into a hospital in a white lab coat and consider myself a doctor but what I am is NOT a doctor. I'd be a poser or a wannabe but I'd certainly not be a doctor. See where Im going with that? Look in a mirror, Im sure you have one in every room. BTW, Im grateful that you don't think about me while you're on the site but I knew that, you're too busy thinking about yourself and trying to enhance your false narrative that you're some kind of wunderkind when you're actually a weird, socially awkward little guy who is trying to hide his insecurities behind a lot of uninformed bluster and half baked opinions backed up by made up statistics. You're actually kinda pitiful.

I have news for you Nappy, going to a swingers club doesn't make you a swinger. It just makes you someone who can afford the price of admission. To be a swinger, you need a deep appreciation for women, you need to be playful and caring and giving. Buying your latest squeeze a ticket to get in the club isn't giving, it's you meeting your own selfish need for control and to instill envy in those who see you. Probably what you didn't like about the swinging atmosphere is that swingers tend to recognize one another and they saw you for what you are, selfish, insecure and more than a little weird. No pal, you're not a swinger and trust me when I tell you, you never will be.

I don’t know how Nappy considers himself a swinger, no group sex experience, may have multiple partners but there is no interaction. Once upon a time his posts carried mild entertainment value. Now they are just boring and repetitive. None of his “girlfriends” have posted here. My next step is the ignore button. I recommend it, having used it before on another poster.

I was just looking at my latest follows on twitter and it's always rather interesting to see who is there and what they post. I noticed one recent follower that has the following in their twitter profile: Nothing, really obvious there, but then when you look at their twitter image it says "swinger escort couple". We've had a few topics around here about the option of using an escort to fulfill a threesome fantasy, but this got me wondering, how many couples would pay for an "escort couple"? Then my thoughts wondered over to the idea of how in so many ways people have jumped on the "swinger" as a way to make money, whether it's the new swinger dating site that seems to pop up every day (my twitter follows are full of those as well) or a couple that decides, hey instead of just swinging for fun, we could swing for profit. So, what are your thoughts on this?

This non-judgement how-to article is currently up on The NY Times website: New York Time Magazine: How to Propose an Open Relationship Don’t report me for copying and pasting the text so you won’t have to deal with the paper’s paywall. “Don’t bring it up during an argument,” says Terri D. Conley, a professor of psychology at the University of Michigan who studies sexuality. If you’re in a monogamous relationship and want to explore making it nonmonogamous, raise the topic gradually. Conley doesn’t drink, but she thinks these exploratory conversations might benefit from the loosening effects of alcohol. Start hypothetically. For example, ask your partner to name the most attractive famous people. “You could then say, ‘Oh, that person is so hot, if they propositioned you, I’d be fine if you had sex with them,’ ” Conley says. If your partner looks horrified at the suggestion, it doesn’t bode well. Once you decide to make your case outright, be explicit about what you want, and say it clearly. Listen carefully to what your partner wants. To make what sex researchers call consensual “extradyadic involvement” work, you need to be willing to communicate often and with empathy. Monogamous couples move into nonmonogamy for all kinds of reasons — unmet sexual desire, boredom, illness, curiosity. Open arrangements tend to work best for couples with lower inclinations toward jealousy and, in the case of heterosexual pairs, less rigid gender norms. Just the suggestion of romantic permutation can be stimulating. The psychotherapist Esther Perel has found that when monogamous couples discuss the possibility of nonmonogamy, it often increases sexual desire between them. “You’re asking yourselves, ‘What would our relationship look like if it changed?’ ” Conley says. If you can afford it, take this negotiation to couples’ therapy. Be sure to choose a provider who is amenable to the notion of open relationships; Conley’s research suggests many are not and that some core psychology theories of attachment, commitment and psychosocial development presume monogamy as the ideal. Since Conley first began publishing academic papers on nonmonogamy more than a decade ago, she has been attacked by other researchers in the field. Their anger confused her. “It was like I shot their dog,” she says. Her methodology wasn’t the problem, she says; it was that she’d dared to suggest that nonmonogamous relationships could be healthy and satisfying. If both parties appear willing to try an open relationship, give yourselves a trial period. “If your partner is still miserable after two months, it’s probably not going to work,” Conley says. “In which case you need to decide if you’re going to stay with that person and be monogamous or leave.”

We're with Fitlakecouple, ViSexual, cplnuswing, and Chris&Suzanne ... our first experience was full swap and it's still our preference. That said, we've told at least one new couple that if they're interested in playing, we'll play to THEIR level even if it's not OUR level.

We found our early experiences exciting and neither of us felt jealous. You have to do it to find out how you feel. Give it a try. You don’t have to continue. It’s a life experience!

Soft swap is a great starting point...let it grow from there

It’s amazing how someone can post a long diatribe with one hand. I for one will not pay any attention to any troll on this site. I will not play into a troll who is looking for confrontation and as others say adds nothing to the conversation. My recommendation is ignore ignore ignore. It’s the best answer.

@Hazeleyes. I'll flirt a little too! We met a couple ay a party last winter. The woman was built much as you describe yourself. In her heels she and I were eye to eye and Im 6' tall. She too had relatively small boobs but that didn't matter, she was very pretty, confident and playful. Once the clothing came off, she was an AMAZING partner. Your body type is generally not the norm but I think a tall svelte woman is incredibly sexy. Back to the question: Mrs Doc is 5'7 and she generally looks for men taller than she is but it's not carved in stone. For her, sex appeal really depends on the guy and his approach. If he's 5'6, smart, good looking and attentive he'll get her attention and maybe get very lucky where as a 6'2 muscle head won't get a 2nd look.

Wife owns some very sexy clothes already, but if we have a trip planned the HEDO or Vegas I will usually buy her something, and when we go out she usually goes without underwear., and before we go in public I play with her for a while to make her and I hotter.

I read your other posts on the forum, you are not a swinger and from what I also read you have nothing of impostor add here. If you are who you say you are I would think you can reach more people by putting your name on buildings, planes, booze, schools and food products. Your posts here might reach many and most agree that you have a negative approach to our lifestyle. I see you already have a red mark next to your name. Opinions are welcome here, ever think about why that red square is there? Question is rhetorical, I am not looking for an answer.

Napoleon, I respectfully disagree. A single man who has a particular preference isn't shallow - he's welcome to not interact with anyone he feels isn't his 'cup of tea.' A man - or a woman - becomes 'shallow' when they actively disparage those people who they aren't enamored with. The old phrase 'live and let live' comes to mind.

We've done dozens of MFMs, and found our 'groove.' It usually starts with my wife Mary in foreplay with the other man. This can go on for anywhere from 10 minutes to an hour, after which time the two of them go into coitus. While this is going on, I'll watch, take pictures and often stimulate her in addition to the other man. (For example, while he's giving her head, I'll be kissing her tits, etc.) At some point, they'll slow down. About that time, I'll take over, Mary and I will screw and the other guy will either watch or help out, depending on what he wants. At this point, we'll take a break. Sometimes the other guy will decide he's had enough (or Mary's had enough of him, if he wasn't that good,) and he'll leave. But more often than not, I'll go get more beverages, dessert or coffee and we'll sit around naked in the bedroom and relax. Then it starts again, usually with Mary and the other guy, but it quickly gets very fluid. We’ve had guys in our bedroom for less than thirty minutes to more than three hours.

I liked that MFM was our gateway to full swaps with other couples.

A few years ago on another site we included only pictures of the wife for many of the reasons cited above. After a while we started to get a few complaints (suggestions?) as there was nothing to go on for the wife of the other couple. Since then we've added a few of the husband (nude) together with the wife - seems to have solved that problem.

Kids, even young ones, always find out eventually. We saw it as an opportunity to communicate with them and teach them to have compassion for those who think differently.

Too many males, and some women, like "vengeance porn." Then a few go out looking for their very own "bad guy" upon whom to bestow violence. I think that off-duty woman cop in Dallas who went into her neighbor's apartment "by mistake," shot, and killed him was one such person. She was just looking for an opportunity to shoot someone, otherwise why not back off and call the police? Her social media posts tell the same story. Same with the handicapped parking vigilante in Florida who was convicted of murder after starting a fight. So why does Hollywood make these movies? Like the NRA, it's about the money. More importantly, why do parents let their children watch them? I'd rather have my kids see naked people. Which brings up another distinction with European countries. In Europe, what distinguishes a movie sex scene (even with teens) deemed deserving of an adult rating versus one getting a mild PG is whether there is any violence or coercion. Consensual sex is fine, any use of force is not.

That doesn't consider me a swinger? You really are silly. And I do appreciate women. I have many women both in my personal and professional life. I'm just simply very clear on which women I will or will not stick my penis inside. And I'm playful, caring, and giving towards women deserving of my time. I'm not selfish. Selfish men cant get three beautiful young smart financially independent women to happily be with them in a relationship. And the women I'm with I give them orgasms and so much more in life. Their quality of life improves dramatically being with me. When they part ways with me they're doing so much better in life compared to before they met me. What all you do for women other than giving them orgasms??? Little man. And I asked my girlfriend if she would like to come with me. Had she said no I would have been ok with that. And I'm not trying to instill invy, that's stupid high school games. And myself and every other man and woman has insecurities. Little man. And you call me weird? I'll tell you what's a weird - me not even thinking about you at all when I'm on this site yet you responding to me more than everyone else combined. You're just a little Chihuahua with a big bark and not bite. You're not a swinger, little man. Now go see to that thing you call your wife. Stop bugging me, I don't even think about you when I'm on this site.