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Until one of the women hubby was playing with allowed me to watch and join in, first with him then with her, I not only considered myself straight, I was straight - had no sexual interest in women. I touched her breasts because I wanted to feel something that was more "normal" than my small tits. I went down on her because I wanted to reclaim the semen my husband had put inside her. But I found that I liked a woman's body for its own sake. Later, another woman, Clair, who is now part of our poly family, gave me not only great sexual experiences but love as well. After Clair and I had babies around the same time and cared for them together (later Clair, Lora and I repeated the experience) we bonded more closely than we had ever with our men. My attraction to women, both emotionally and sexually, wasn't a new orientation it was an addition to my strong attraction to men. I would say it is like being bilingual, one supplements the other, it doesn't create an entirely new entity.

I have always thought that the advent of the Pill was the green light, the go-ahead for women to safely indulge their sexual urges, within the marriage and non-monogamously. Those of us in our 70's, the Baby Boomers, were the first to achieve our peak sexual years at a time that pregnancy was not a constant worry.

Two observations from a woman in her early thirties living with two other women and two guys similarly aged: As time has gone on the libido of women goes up and the libido (or at least their performance) of a man goes down. I don't mean to zero, but from several times at one go to a limit of a several times a day. My desire for sex sometimes goes up and down, but even when my interest is zero at the moment, when one of the others comes to me for sex, I politely give in and by the time he's starting in me or she's down on me, I'm at 100%. Which brings me to: Women have an advantage in that regard because a little lube and you can always let a guy in. Men have to get and maintain an erection. So if you need to be going to get going, like I said in the previous point, it's an advantage to be a woman. (OTOH, magic can be had in sucking his dick. ? )

I've always considered it an orientation. Some people are, some people aren't, just like men attracted solely to men or women attracted solely to women, so that makes it an orientation to me. Things get a little more fuzzy when you get into the bicurious zone or doing it just to "put on a show for the guys". Those I don't really thing could be considered an orientation.

Good question. I think it just depends. I can become aroused and start to feel some tingles and hardening before my mind has even decided if the source of the arousal is something I desire or not. The other pathway is you desire someone, so you start thinking about that, and that leads to the arousal.

Yes the word discreet is over used and unnecessary! We have not meet anyone in the lifestyle yet that doesn’t want to keep this part of their life private. HWP does not bother us, because that is our preferred option for play friends in general. Anything on a profile related to cock size is a pass for us! BBC, BWC or anything else that says something about your spectacular penis. Could give a fuck less. Doesn’t make someone attractive in anyway for her. Does the opposite. We are an attractive couple and we are professionals are also on our list of annoying things on profiles. Also if they have drug free on their profile we avoid, because we are not and even in today’s society pot seems to make a lot of people uptight. We don’t like being around uptight people.

Depends on the woman. Among those who we play with, one woman I have a desire to see, to be with, even before we're together, even if we're not planning to be together. Even when we're not going to fuck. We trade texts and emails. The other women I like, but don't get aroused until sex is happening soon. I would say my wife is the same, there's one guy she has real desire for, the rest arouse her in the moment.

Is this a chicken or the egg question. Desire first, but arousal comes close behind it.

Well, we made the right call coming back from our vacation a week early. It's gone from "no toilet paper" to "no frozen vegetables, no frozen fruit, no meat of any kind, no apples, only the worst brand of frozen pizza, bananas are rationed...", but we're pretty well set. We are curfewed like little kids and nearly everything social is closed, as is Ms. E's workplace. On the upside, I managed to get a new set of adjustable dumbbells before they went out of stock so we can work out at home together, we picked up plenty of red wine, and I have what works out to 240 mg of Cialis stockpiled courtesy of my insurance plan, enough for Mrs. E and I to bang more or less continuously for the...60 days, give or take. We'll be alright. Maybe we should self-publish smut or something while we have all this free time.

Jeeze Gold, we use h/w/p in our profile because we ARE and because that's what we look for in playmates. Mrs Doc is 5'8", about 145. Im 6' and 195. If a woman is 4'2 and 145 and the guy is 5'2, 195 and call themselves h/w/p we'd certainly notice!! We too believe "discreet", used in the same sentence as "single male", is code for cheating husband.

One of the many things I like about this forum is that you are not necessarily going to get the answers you want, but the answers you need to hear. With that spirit in mind, and understanding I am in no way meaning to convey any negativity against you or your wife; I feel the lack of discussion about what each of you doing or has done is a non-starter. There are very few couples that make this work, and for good reason. You are inexperienced in this lifestyle. You're basically giving each other a hall pass to go cheat, but with permission. Imagine the insecurities that can develop, the jealousy in wondering if the other has had sex with somebody recently? This is a very real possibility. Further, most swingers approach the lifestyle as a team; they rejoice in each other's successes, relish hearing about their experiences, and want the best for their spouses. Personally, I find it incredibly erotic for my wife to tell me about her escapades. This often happens in the context of us making love while she tells me about her evening out with another guy. NOT talking about it removes each other from that portion of each of your lives. It's exclusionary, and begins to build walls. This is not good, not good at all. There is also a very serious safety issue. You've said no sex in your home. This means your wife is going to be going off with guys somewhere not at home, and you won't know where or even why she is gone...or if she is gone if you're not at home and don't know she's out. Ok women go on dates all the time, but this is different. If you value your wife's security, then knowing where she is going and with whom is very important. My wife goes on many solo dates. But, I always know where she is going, even what room number at a hotel, and if I need to contact her she will answer the phone. Let's face it; there are some serious creeps out there that may take advantage of the situation and your wife will be at risk. Safety first. Also; the one and done rule plays against the safety issue as well. I feel considerably less comfortable if my wife goes off on a solo date for the first time with someone and I haven't met the guy. She has had a couple of long term boyfriends, and I've felt no qualms at all with her going off to have sex with them. I know she's safe and is going to have a good time. I'd find it less appealing for her to be going off on first time solo dates all the time. Also, as others have said, sex with someone gets better the more times you have sex with them. They learn your likes, dislikes, what feels good, what doesn't. For my wife's part, being able to play multiple times with a guy means that eventually she'll get to play with him without a condom. For her, it feels a lot better and she really enjoys men cumming inside of her, so it's better for her to have a partner with whom she's played many times. Also, this idea that she will play alone and so will you; be prepared that she would be getting a LOT more sex than you will. Finding men to play with a married woman is relatively easy. Finding women to play with a married man, not so much. For every 20 times she plays, you MIGHT play once. MIGHT. Would you be comfortable with that? To be brutally honest here; I'm seeing red flags pop up on this one. Playing alone when you're first getting into this is something that couples do (though it is uncommon), but I don't hear about it happening successfully with couples who don't talk about it. Communication is an absolutely critical key to success in swinging. The _lack_ of it will undermine where you want to go with this. I strongly, strongly advise against it.

Ditch the 'one and done' rule. Sexual experiences improve with repeat performances. Partners learn each others wants and wishes and develop trust and comfort over time. And, frankly - the one and done rule heavily favors the men. They are going to get off, guaranteed. First time for ladies, much lower percentage.

What an interesting question, Sun. I took some time to think about this, so here goes. Consensual non-monogamy, or the LifeStyle, has been around as long as there have been humans. I have no doubt the real-life characters of the Flintstones and Rubbles swapped occasionally just for fun. Solomon had his concubines. The Romans had orgies. Lord Nelson had a public ménage à trois. Whenever social mores have been accepting, it’s easier to find historical evidence of swapping, hotwifing, etc. Whenever society has clamped down, the behavior has gone underground. But I doubt it absolutely stopped in any society, even the most fundamentalist ones. So, to ask where The Future of Swinging goes is to ask where our social mores are heading. Our society took a big hit during the Victorian era (mid 1800's tp early 1900s.) At that time all ‘improper’ behavior was castigated, in England and Europe and in the United States of America and other places around the globe. Then, in the post World War II era, the pendulum began to swing the other way. First and foremost was the popularity of the automobile. It became relatively easy for girls and boys (and consenting men and women) to get away from prying eyes and do what comes natural. Then came the twin inventions of penicillin and the pill. Once the prevalent diseases of syph and the clap were done away with, and when women could have sex without the fear of becoming pregnant, we were off to the races! Finally, the aura of ‘weird’ sex lost its forbiddeness in the ‘sexual revolution.’ (It wasn’t a revolution, it just crept out of the closet.) The Summer of Love (1967), the Stonewall Riots (1969) and the publication of Cosmopolitan by Helen Gurley Brown beginning in 1965 brought alternative sexual patterns into the sunlight. So people had it on their mind. The biggest problem facing a married couple that wanted to swap was where to find partners. The process was made much easier with the invention and popularization of the World Wide Web in the late 1990s. With websites acting as hook-up agents, it was now possible to easily find willing partners. And that brings us to today, and the future. Social Mores At this moment, the social mores of this country (USA) and other enlightened societies are conducive to the LifeStyle. Other than your family and close friends, many people who are interested in opening their marriage are no longer much afraid of other people finding out what they do on Saturday night. Organized Religion has been losing much of its cachet since the 1960s; there are fewer members of the traditional religions, and even Evangelical churches are beginning to attract fewer people. Reliance on the rules of your particular religion is also slipping; as an example, most Roman Catholics in the United States believe in the Pope, but criticize his stance on a celibate priesthood and abortion. In short, religion is a much reduced check on sexual freedom. The Media is displaying a more and more positive view on alternative lifestyles. Evidence the swinging-based commercials of Slinger, more articles in mainstream magazines and newspapers, and the appearance of swinging in sitcoms and mainstream documentaries. In all probability over the next twenty-five years the social mores will continue to loosen, and a larger of percentage of committed couples will consider opening their marriage; more will wind up experimenting. Of this, a predictable percentage will make it an on-going hobby. But . . . if something occurs that tightens the social mores, we might creep back into the woodwork. Impossible? Oh, no. A catastrophe such as a nuclear war or truly devastating pandemic will do the trick. To see just how close we might be to such a situation, watch The Handmaidens Tale or read If This Goes On by Robert A. Heinlein. It could happen, although I think it’s somewhat unlikely. Disease Sexually transmitted diseases will have an impact on people’s willingness to swing. Currently we have three to eight common diseases that can really screw you up. In the 1960s through the 1980s most people didn’t give STDs a second thought. Syphilis and Gonorrhea were the most prevalent at the time, and both could be easily cured by antibiotics. Then AIDS and HIV became a real threat in the mid 1980s. (That was a true boom for the condom industry!) Since then, other serious diseases have been added to the mixture. The fear of disease leads many people to deny themselves extra-marital sex. If cures for the current diseases are found, there will be more swingers. And my prediction is that there will be cures. However, I could be wrong about that, or new diseases could crop up. In my mind, it’s a wash. Birth Control At this time there are a number of relatively effective methods of birth control, most of them for use by women. It's likely that a birth control pill or other solution for men will be developed. But improvement in this area won't have much impact on the number of swingers. Getting together with like-minded individuals. For most people, particularly newcomers, one of the vexing problems is how to find someone to swing with. There are currently two basic solutions. The first is on-line resources such as Adult Friend Finder and SwingLifeStyle. The usefulness of any particular site depends on developing a large number of clients. Over time, this will get better. Imagine the possibilities if SLS and SDC merged? (And hired professional web developers . . .) This will depend upon market and financial considerations that are difficult to predict. The other is the prevalence of swing clubs. At the current time, there are relatively few operating clubs. Others will open if and only-if it becomes easier and more profitable to do so. If the number of swingers increases as I predict, more clubs will open. But, one of the restrictions on a swing club is zoning laws and political influence. Few mayors are likely to get behind a new swing club as committed Christians are much more numerous and likely to vote. And zoning laws are predicated on the whims of these voters. However, I predict that at some point in the future, the denial of permits to swing clubs will be tested in the courts, as the discriminatory zoning of blacks was done. If the courts rule that it is unconstitutional to block swing clubs, there will be a large increase of places to have fun. In that case, I can see market forces that will impact them, just as there are different bars for different crowds. There will be clubs for the young and pretty, some for empty nesters, and all over Florida clubs will be popping up for the elderly. (They’ll open at two for early-bird specials and by 8:00 the action will be long over! The music will be smooth jazz and classic rock.) Patterns But one thing that won’t change will be the root patterns of swinging. There will still be foursome swaps, orgies, hotwifing activities. Some people will continue to participate in BDSM and other kinks and perversions. The percentage of people who like each category will probably remain relatively constant, Of course, it’s possible that someone will invent a new way to put Tab A into Slot B, but I doubt it.

Yeah swinging isn't just centuries old, it's millennia old. Anything we can imagine doing in sex was being done before there was written history about it. :)

50 years ago in high school my g/f and I would often double date with another couple to the drive in. Sometimes there would be 2 cars and 4 couples There was often a lot of watching and flashing between the couples and maybe even reaching over the seats for a bit of touching. We had a 5 minute game too where the guys would switch seats and make out with an other girl for 5 minutes or maybe till intermission was over. There was never penetration on these dates, these were catholic school girls but damn! did we ever steam up the windows!. Boomers didn't invent swinging. I think the modern version was developed by our parents during WWII and later in the 50's during the cold war and that was probably built upon what their grandparents had explored and learned in the 20's. The developments of the late 20th and now the 21st century has made access to and participation in swinging (clubs, resorts, websites, etc) way easier than it was in the 20's and 40's or the 50's and 60's. Our parents and grandparents were the greatest generation without doubt. Maybe Boomers could claim the title of the greatest sexual generation. We have brought swinging much closer to mainstream than ever before in America.

I would not at all be surprised if sex androids become readily available. We're getting towards that now. In 100 years, I think it will be common. We might think of it as just another appliance. It won't be something that most homes have, but it will have a stronger niche. I think perhaps remote sex devices will become more common as well. They might not really catch on big, but for partners that are apart they may become more mainstream of a sex toy, and better developed. Socially, I think non-monogamy will continue to rise in popularity and acceptance. By some reports, consensual non-monogamy has been tried by 1/5th of the population in the U.S. I think this will rise. It might even be a majority in 100 years. I think non-traditional parenting units will become more common, with FMF and MFM triads becoming more common. I think we'll eventually see some lawsuits about these non-traditional parenting units and the rights thereof. As non-monogamy becomes more common, I think we may start to see a decline in swinger clubs, as people won't need such places to find what they are looking for. In the UK, there's been a mass "die off" of traditional pubs as society has changed. It's possible we may see that with swing clubs as well.

No. And I don't think I'd want to either, IMO, it's not sexy or hot. Again, traditional swinger-clubs are historically female-centric and male/male sex or even a man taking a strap-on in his ass is not the norm. My guess is that most women would not be "offended" but I don't think they'd be interested either. The best analogy I can make is this: think of a swingers club like straight porn -- men getting pegged in the ass would be a different category or fetish porn. ?

One other thought: Seeing a new couple at a club...the 'regulars' never know if it is just a couple of thrill seekers checking the place out, a couple where one of the two didn't really know where they were going, a couple that isn't ready to swing, a couple that thinks that swinging may save their doomed relationship, or a couple that has talked about this and is emotionally ready and secure enough in their relationship to be successful with swinging. After several visits, that ice may be broken, but nobody wants to take the risk of drama. You need to show them that you are a couple that's ready for this and is going to be drama free.

While this is true in the most general sense, it seems that different men age differently. Partially this is attributable to comorbidities--diabetes, vascular disease and so on. But equally there is a use it or lose it phenomenon. You are surely correct that PDE5 drugs (Viagra and successors) facilitate erection. But they do nothing for libido. And absent desire, erections are not going to happen.