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I do not want to edge into the political. But if a person goes to a swing club in a pandemic in which cases are rising, that is their risk and choice. But if that swinger contracts it and transmits it to five other people at work, at their home or at the grocery store, those five people did not agree to risk contracting the virus. Your freedom stops when it infringes on an innocent person’s right to their health. I don’t think that a swing club entails safe conditions. I guess we’ll hear how this works out. I think that I know.

Agreed, not far-fetched at all. I can see the headlines now "Sex Addict Swingers Trigger New Outbreak". And, it would be true. Same would be true if it was "Churchgoers Trigger New Outbreak", but that's sort of irrelevant, which one do you think is going to get more attention and the group as a whole suffer more blowback? The places there are swingers clubs, they are tolerated at best. Plenty of threads here on this site where clubs had their nailhead get stuck up, sometimes their fault, often not, and have been hammered down for reasons, legit or non-legit. Those sort of shutdowns are permanent. Yeah, it sucks, but swingers have to realize they are a marginal small group with no power and have to do their own PR if they want to continue to be tolerated, and that PR needs to demonstrate they pose no risk to the community in any way, shape, or form. Menages in Nashville announced they hope to be opening in some capacity within a month. One thing that was mentioned was no more than 50% of usual capacity. We'll pass, for now. Not forever, but for now...

I can wait until there is a vaccine, effective treatment or the virus peters out. Not in a rush to contract and/or spread a life threatening disease. Sort of like going to a gay bathhouse during the height of the AIDS crisis. You can do it, you can have your freedom, but the last ride wasn’t pretty.

I agree completely!! Which is why we will likely wait another month or so before we even consider a trip to the east coast to trapeze. We DO know more today than we did in February about this virus. I think that corona parties or even church services are a matter of personal choice. At the beginning, we would and did choose not to go in either direction. We'd still decline a large corona party invitation but we might go to church and, we'd certainly consider a small house party where we knew and trusted the guests. Would there be somewhat of a risk? Of course and if we got sick (or got an std…at the party, NOT church) we might ultimately regret the choice but it is ours and we think it would be a fairly well informed choice. The bottom line to me is that we in the US have a constitutional right to assemble and to practice our religion, to travel between states, and to engage in commerce. Distancing guidelines and masks are just that, guidelines. If it goes beyond that, such as telling people they must stay home, close their businesses and churches and bankrupt themselves or face governmental sanctions of some sort then our rights are being usurped by the state.

There are swingers from these clubs that have been holding private parties the entire time. I don't agree with their decision but my freedom is the choice to decline the invitations to attend. They argue that swingers are risk takers and they are not worried about getting sick. My argument to them was that I am concerned not strictly for myself, but for those around me that I could unintentionally contaminate. Apparantly this makes me a pussy.... These are the folks that are waiting for the doors to open. I agree in terms of the problems businesses are facing that we must reopen to avoid total collapse. Perhaps there is a way they can reopen for social purposes, not sexual... I'm laughing as I write this because I know that's impossible.

We are not challenging that position; rather we meant to explore the consequences of making the decision. It is not just swing clubs that are affected; it is the entire entertainment/travel/hospitality sector that depends on bringing people together. There is also the aftermath problem: social distancing kept many areas' healthcare systems from being overwhelmed. There have been serious exceptions: NYC; Albany GA, New Orleans, LA, ... Atlanta (Trapeze and also our hometown) escaped being overwhelmed, and partially as a consequence our Governor decided to be in the vanguard of 'reopening'. We are still too early to understand the consequence of that decision as it will affect health and healthcare. As for "knowing the risks", we might suggests that we have somewhat more clarity on risks than we had a couple of months ago. We do not have certainty. And our medical countermeasures are still very weak. We happen to work in healthcare, and have seen -- and directly cared for --several colleagues seriously ill with the virus. At least some of them had no apparent predisposition--age, underlying condition, and so on. We endorse your libertarian perspective--risk is personal. We think you will agree that the consequences of those risks also need to be personally embraced. We are curious to know your opinion of "corona parties" and other situations where persons have optionally (we exclude first responders, healthcare workers and so on who must put themselves in harm's way) and deliberately placed themselves in the path of infection? What do you see as their responsibilities?

No difference in my opinion. Except the swing club would be more fun.

I'm happy that they're reopening! A swingers club is for consenting adults. Let them do what they choose to do. We make informed decisions every time we meet another couple and every time we get naked. This is no different than deciding who to have sex with or if you're going go bareback or condomed. If you don't feel safe, stay home. It's every persons RIGHT to choose what they want to do. Im really tired of government attempting to limit my freedom of choice.

What could go wrong? Have sex six feet apart? Kiss and perform oral with a mask? Who would go? Not us. Hope they don’t start a huge cluster and wind up on CNN. Imagine contact tracing? The guy with the birthmark on his.... I wish them the best, we had fun in the Fort Lauderdale club multiple times, but it seems too soon to me.

Coming up to two months working from home. Like most couples we are spending more time together we ever had before. It has given us more time to talk about everything including what brought us to swinging back a few years ago. I was the one who held back and wondered why my wife wanted to swing with our friends. I was extremely worried about our relationship and the why’s of her desires. She knew I was hesitant yet I never said the reason. I thought I wasn’t good enough and had all crazy things in my head. When I finally agreed to swinging with her friend and her husband I subconsciously didn’t want her to enjoy. The trade off was I got to be with her friend, a very attractive person who I maybe had thought of sexually before. From the very first time I didn’t enjoy watching. At first I was taken back that she was having an orgasm in what might have been more intense than the ones she had with me. Since those first times I am still not a watcher except when she is with another female. I find that an extreme turn on. After swinging encounters we don’t discuss specifics. I’ll ask if she had fun. I don’t ask about acts or how the sex was. I never asked The was he better question. There is no good answer to that. I don’t want her to have a bad time. The more we have done this the more I want her to enjoy, yet I’m still not a watcher. I think for the first time I asked her for a truthful answer to why she wanted to try this. Was she attracted to her friend’s husband. I wanted to know the why. Her answer I think is truthful. Her friend and her second husband were swingers. Her friend told her stories of the fun experiences she was having. She told me the real reason was she wanted to experience a woman and a ménage. We had watched many threesomes on line. I thought it was for me and now she said she enjoyed the thought of being in bed with a woman. She felt it would be better if I was involved too. I hope that’s true. When questioned she does enjoy the other men too, not as a replacement, more as an addition. I understand that feeling as I do enjoy the women I’ve been with. My wife said she was afraid to watch me at first and now enjoys watching me have fun. Our talks this month have been very open and much more detailed. I think I feel more comfortable telling her my experiences rather her telling me hers.

THAT is my point….The government, city, county, state or federal, does NOT have the authority to tell me whether or not I can go to work, or have three naked couples in my spa (so much for distancing) or go to church or go to a sex club. Who determines if Im in good health? Will there be a selection process? Will we be issued a work permit or a health certificate? I can hear it now…."PAPERS, schnell!! We already have local tv station websites providing phone numbers for people to report "violators" of social distancing or mask requirements to the "authorities". If this kind of crap doesn't scare you, you have not studied history.

Compared to the risks of swinger sex, the virus is FAR more troublesome. Last I checked getting a woman pregnant via swinging didn't mean all the women would get pregnant nor their friends in their vanilla life. We shouldn't compare the virus to things that are self-contained like STD's, etc.

You won't catch me at Trapeze yet. I don't believe the question of opening up is either yes or no. It's about how to open the economy. It's about opening the economy using and being informed by that data we have collected which is some but not a lot to date. To be clear, we have done nothing to combat the virus. It is still around and it hasn't been stopped at all in any way. We all got out of it's way so that less people were infected, but that's all. We shouldn't kid ourselves that flattening the curve is somehow equal to fighting the virus. It is not. The virus is here and it's as strong as it was in February. We do know that certain populations are far more susceptible, have much higher incidence of death and therefore we should and can segment the population in terms of risk factors. Then an opening plan could be created for the low risk populations and for the high risk populations. Ultimately, the virus will be spread no matter how we open, we currently have no way to control that. What we can control or attempt to is the number of deaths associated with contracting the virus. Also, there is no information yet about building immunity by being exposed, so opening and getting infected may not help in the long term fight against the virus. The concept of 'herd immunity' is just that at this point, a concept. If we add social distancing and masks for the low risk population, we could expect to see a lower incidence of infections and certainly a low incidence of death. Those under the age of 50 in good health should be allowed to return to work, with precautions. Outside areas should be opened as well, again with minimal but clear social distancing and precautions. The difficulty is what to do with the high risk populations. Which according to the data I've seen are those over 50 years with 1 or more preexisting conditions or over the age of 80. Pre-exisiting conditions which have been highly correlated to death from the virus include but are not limited to: Diabetes, High Blood Pressure, Asthma etc. Those over 80 have an extremely high probability of death if they are sickened by the virus no matter what. These populations require guidance specific to their needs and different from the 50 and younger crowd. Then, once this plan is created then we can look at the economic needs. Until, then we are throwing money into a black hole which I would argue is bad policy as well.

Imagine the great publicity for the lifestyle if a big outbreak is contact traced to a swingers’ club? Not far fetched.

Disclaimer: We are not attorneys. We have sat on juries. We have testified as experts. We are not sure there is a distinction. This is why case law may be important. We observe that other businesses (and yes megachurches are businesses) probably have signage encouraging social distancing, advising patrons/worshipers to take some precautions and so on. In contrast, here is the banner at the Trapeze ATL website: "ATTENTION: We are reopening! Atlanta will open on Friday, May 22nd! Cum play!" One can imagine that on a 3'x 9' display in front of a jury where the decedent's family related how their loved one was unknowingly exposed to the person who attended (and caught the virus) on 22 May at Trapeze--and yes, it can be shown to a level of certainty that the virus was transmitted from the defandant to the plaintiff's family. So the next question involves "reckless endangerment" --the patron, the establishment, or jointly liable? Whatever you or I might think, what matters is what an attorney can persuade a jury to think. We are going to sit this out and see what happens.

That may or may not happen. However, shutting down a 1st world economy for 3-4 months or 6 months or a year is about the quickest way to reduce a country to 3rd world status. There are hundreds or thousands of business and millions upon millions of citizens who have been unable to work by government fiat. It Trapeze wants to open, that should be their decision. Those who choose to go and play, if they have a tv or internet, know the risks and going to the club should be their decision as well.

This highlights the contrast between public health and economics. Trapeze owners are making a calculated decision. It is likely that a swing club will promote transmission. It is also likely that there will be secondary infections. If that can be proved, for example by sequencing the nucleic acid from persons at the center of the club outbreak to secondary infected persons, it will open up not only a new world of contact tracing but also some new areas for litigation. Who, precisely, is responsible if the index case enters the swing club, infects half a dozen people, and those go on to infect a couple of dozen more--and the latter group includes two deaths? The index case for "you should never have come in"? The swing club operators? Those half dozen initially infected for failing to self-quarantine for two weeks following a risky event? There will new case law.

Couldn't agree more. Mrs CLT can flash me anytime!! Here or in person!

Good for them. Time to go back to living. We flattened the curve. That was the goal, not to stop people every getting COVID any more than we shut things down for the flu.

Adam I think he did say they don’t discuss their experiences. Mike likes to talk about everything. I make sure never to do comparisons to him, I might compare to other partners. Mike will sometimes mention size, length of time, my orgasm, even the amount of ejaculate. My comments tend to attractiveness of the other woman and her motions and techniques. The thing is we do talk after.

Trician, I don't think Finding was saying he and his wife don't talk; his point is that that this stupid time is leading to more investigation of their LifeStyle times together.

I’m not having sex dreams, I am having more dreams that I remember.

After years of swinging you are first talking? We find it is important to always talk. I can’t say how you should feel watching her but if your not comfortable you should be telling her that. Honesty is the first important conversation.

You guys are prudent swingers. We shared a very nice dinner on Zoom with lifestyle friends tonight. We like sex, but we prefer living. We do have LS friends who we consider to have a sex addiction. You may have such friends , too.

@MarniJohn agree 100% we have been invited by a few couples which we politely declined. Here's was one of our deciding factors: both kids are in the medical field. They are aware of our extra curricular activities it is referred to as mom and dad's cult meetings. When this 1st started I got a text from daughter (she is a CCU nurse) it said "Dad no cult meetings please? Be safe!" Can't wait for this to be over but we are going to be safe in the meantime. Live to play another day!

Not here. I have sexual dreams ALL THE TIME. I'm not sure if it's a sickness, pervert, sexaholic, depraved, or nympho. Back to the survey they include friends and made up people. Often the folks living on our block. I kinda get a kick out of that. When I'm chatting with a neighbor I often think of our dream encounters. Gets my heart racing and they are none the wiser. I know, what a pervert!

I know he had a problem the first time he saw me with a guy, he told me. Not so when he saw me with my girlfriend. I was the one who suggested him playing with my girlfriend and sure was nervous and then excited. He was more nervous than me. All in all we are both glad we got by those first times.

Note that I'm a male and my perspective is probably completely different. When Mrs. EastInWest and I met, we were friends first, then started meeting for coffee/drinks frequently. We got close, learned more about each other's personal lives, and eventually things got romantic and emotional. However, we didn't know if it could ever be serious, so we didn't stress exclusivity, we just thought one of us would move on eventually. It's a long story, but after we'd been carrying on like this for over a year, we had our one "experiment" where she ended up topless in the back of the car giving head while I gave the guy and his friend a lift to their hotel. It wasn't planned, but she'd had a few drinks and I'm a bad influence. It wasn't hard to see. It was, however, insanely intense. I don't think there could possibly be a drug that would do the same thing. At first we both struggled to give them a little privacy, but that didn't work. I was frustrated at how few stop lights I was getting until I finally just pulled over to join his friend in enjoying the show. He was working her with his hand and she was moaning heavily, constantly on the edge of climaxing, made prolonged eye contact with me a few times (wondering if I was OK, she said later) and I could have cum right there in the driver's seat looking at the way she was looking at me. The feelings were mixed and confusing but none of them were bad. I did have a brief impulse to stop the action when I realized he was going to cum, but I didn't actually want to. It was just a passing, instinctive thought, competing with the urge to masturbate (which I also didn't actually want to do, knowing I'd waste the arousal). I was as hard as I could ever remember being and what I wanted was to see her finish her good work and get her home to the hotel to take her roughly and unload inside her. When he finished, there was a lot of cum. I watched and listened while she gulped twice, but she didn't get it all. I saw her lift her head up, breasts in his lap, and a lot of it ran over her lips and down his shaft. She was on her own high, too, and just stared at the wet cock in her hand, breathing hard. It was completely obscene and very enjoyable to me. She told me later she was just in shock that she had even done it and didn't know what to do or say. A bunch of other stuff happened, but I don't want to turn this into a short story. The point is, none of this ever felt negative for either of us. I took her back to our room, she was in a daze, we went at it in the shower then finished in bed, she came very hard repeatedly, then we passed out, slept through our alarms. We ate breakfast like that hadn't happened, then finally we're drinking coffee and she says, kind of nervously, "I really had fun last night." We talked about it for a while, got her over her worries about what I might be thinking, and she expressed some shock that she didn't feel guilty or grossed out about what she did at all. We didn't talk about that again for years, until we started talking about the idea of actively getting into swinging a couple years ago. I think what made it so harmless (where it could have been an emotional disaster) is that we were on exactly the same page: I was already relatively adventurous, she wanted to be more adventurous, I was supportive of that and wasn't interested in holding her back at all from enjoying everything. She knew it and I OKed (and instigated) things as they went along, we communicated that we were OK and it was good to go ahead, so there was never much room for me to feel like my boundaries weren't being respected and get offended. I don't know if that helps. When I start describing that story it's hard not to be excessively detailed because it was a crazily vivid experience.

In a word, "no." My wife stopped a few years ago because of hormonal decrease and a herpes scare. I couldn't give it up and since have had three more-or-less regular partners (all with my wife's full knowledge and blessing).