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The great thing about this lifestyle is that there are couples that fits everyone's preferences. We prefer to play on the first date. The reason is that our time is so limited that when we are able to get out and meet people we want to play. Three or four dates? That could take months for us. We also don't look at our adventures as "dating" necessarily. We're looking to find a couple, two couples who want to add to their physical dynamic. Usually the couples we meet become acquaintances/friends but given we aren't about to get out that often we don't usually see people enough to find out personal details. Most of our continual communication is electronic rather than out "dating".

We wear these black rings and have had luck with them already! They are from Partners ID. Never heard about Tide boxes or blue flower pots!

or, in COVID era, upside down pineapple masks...

We actually say in our profile that we don't play on the first date so that there is no pressure or confusion and we want to make sure that everyone is indeed interested (no taking one for the team). We want there to be a connection since we are looking for friends first, benefits second. However, if everyone agrees on a second date, we hope that SOMETHING happens...doesn't have to be big, maybe even just watching each other making out (same room sex/petting/whatever). If that doesn't happen, it seems like the other couple isn't interested. If nothing happens after three dates, then we figure it probably isn't a match and we move on. It's fine not having much happen on the second date (or maybe even the third), as long as we know that the other couple is really interested. If you are just starting out and are being cautious, let the other couple know that this is what is happening. If they are understanding, then move forward. If they are not interested in waiting, then it isn't a match and saves everyone time by moving on.

I made my first post not quite a year ago while going thru divorce. That got final and after dating a few ladies, one captivated me. She was monogamous and that was totally fine with me. She's amazing. One of the times I picked her up for a date at her house, I laughed that she had blue flowerpots, which is a mythical "sign of swingers" in my community. I made a joke about how she must be a swinger. Well, that led to months and months of communication and discussion and reading and discussion and podcasts and more discussion until finally action was taken. We put up a profile on a site and began conversations with others. Once our state allowed restaurants to partially open, we "covid screened" another couple who had been careful in lockdown, met them for dinner, and it was on! Since then, we've had several encounters with other couples who have also been working from home and avoiding crowds. One couple took our temps at the front door as part of their protocol. We seem to be following a familiar pattern. I the male introduce the topic, we enter the LS world together with her nervous about everything, then she enjoys it a lot. And so we're in. Now we're in the process of moving in together permanently, and we will be marrying not too long after. After 10 months of knowing each other, sheltering in place together since March and working thru an entrance into the LS, we have never had a single cross word between us. We could not be happier! We look forward to learning and growing further and have enjoyed the wisdom shown on this board.

Maybe I missed it but why is this guy still your "fiancé"? He is obviously doing whatever he wants, and his actions are quite shady. I don't understand why you'd stay around. You're too young to to hook your wagon to someone who doesn't care what you have to say.

Sounds like your issues go way beyond simply swinging. Best to figure out if you two have a future before indulging in the lifestyle. The problem I am reading is that he doesn't understand the word no. Swinging is about the two of you, at all times. If he cannot respect how you feel, you probably already know that there is a serious problem in your relationship. Good luck!

Most important thing is to always keep talking...

Thank you all that have read and posted their thoughtful responses to this question. My apology for the delayed response, but vanilla life has a way of intruding and taking priority over the fun things in life. Wifey and I have been talking about playing after the second date while she is still hesitant she has at least agreed to consider it. Thank you GoldCoCouple, your suggestion of same room sex with your own partner as a potential starting point was a lot of help. She was more comfortable with that idea. We will continue to talk and discuss things as we gain more experience. Again thank you everyone for your thoughtful comments

A member of my staff sewed them for us. We did the usual searches for the origin of the symbolism, and came up empty. Same goes for flamingos, pampas grass, black rings, white rocks, blue flowerpots, ankle bracelets, white rocks... For us this was just a bit of humor

That's a cool mask. Did you sew it or buy it? btw, pardon my ignorance... why is the ls symbol an upside down pineapple?

My first wife was a virgin. I payed dearly.

Swinging is all about love, trust and communication. Right now, you can't and shouldn't be trusting him meaning no swinging at all. He obviously has a deeper connection with her than he should and it needs to STOP NOW. It's not being controlling, it's being smart, respectful, and loving. While we don't have many rules, our 'golden rule' is if one of us says no to another couple or single, then we both say no and move on...no questions or repercussions. It doesn't MATTER why we said no, we just move on. Ms. Gold is MUCH MORE IMPORTANT to me than some play partner and I would never want to even take the chance of loosing her. You have said no to this woman, he either needs to understand that talking to her, hoping that you might change your mind, is not showing you the love and respect he should always be showing you. He needs to make a choice: you or her, plain and simple. Continuing to try and communicate with her any longer...well, that then shows you what he chose.

We generally like the first meeting to be vanilla. I like to debrief privately with my wife. One of us may pick up something good or bad that may influence our decision. If both of us want to meet to play, we’ll try to set up a play date. If the other couple agrees, we do it. We make it clear to the other couple that we intend to play and make sure that they are on the same page. i don’t think we would meet three or four times and not play, unless all four of us wanted to be vanilla friends. I do not think many seasoned lifestylers would wait that long. If we are on a lifestyle cruise or at a lifestyle resort, we would want to have drinks or a meal to get to know people a little first, but we are much more likely to play right away.

Yes the same getting to know people makes it better and more fun and safer!!

I no longer have my virginity, but I still have the box that it came in.

From a strictly sexual standpoint, almost any "losing my virginity" experience has the theme of not knowing what you were doing or even how to go about doing it. So, if you remember feeling that way yourself, then why in the world you would think that a plus when it comes to a sex partner? Sex is like anything, the more you do it, the better you are at it. And hell no on the paying for it. I've known people to who the whole "she gave her virginity to me" thing seemed like a very important part of their relationship, but I don't really get that either. To those who seemed to still consider it a big deal years later, there always seemed like some darker undercurrent of control or possessiveness or something there that just made me cringe a little. Certainly nothing wrong with a couple being each others first, or one of them being the first, but I don't think it is any predictor of future relationship health or stability.

Since we think that swinging with friends is a bad idea, how do you think we will feel about swinging with your wife's SISTER. NOTHING GOOD WILL COME FROM THIS. Walk away...no run away.