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It wasn't at a club but a high school reunion where Laura met my high school sweetheart. Laura volunteered to pick up our kids at Grandma's, but urged Jill and me to stay and dance. Jill agreed to drive me home later. We had gone to the same dance school so we danced well together. We had never "gone all the way." During a slow dance, Jill whispered that she thought that was a pity. I told her I'd talk to Laura about Jill and I "fixing it." Jill was shocked that I could ask my wife such a thing. She thought about the idea and me and decided it made sense. We agreed to ask when she took me home. Laura was enthusiastic but stipulated that she could do her (also previously not fucked) HS Sweetheart if she got the chance. Jill and I spent the next afternoon in a hotel room, with a "Tryst Kit" prepared by Laura, a bottle of wine, two glasses, and a tube of flavored KY. Laura wasn't as lucky. At her HS reunion, her former boyfriend was there and they danced. He never seemed to quite understand. His wife was a "clinger" and a lawyer. I think he was wise.

Hell, the way you describe her, I think I'd like to meet up with her in a club some day too.

I think the experienced members will all tell you the same thing, that we will be blunt with what we think about a post. It's no service to you for us to tell you one thing and think another. So, I'll be blunt here. I'm seeing red flags; not enormous ones, but fairly big. I don't think your wife is being totally forthcoming with why she wants to sell her used panties. It obviously isn't for money. There's another reason. That the two of you aren't talking honestly and openly about it is a big red flag to me. Swinging demands honest and openness between you, else it will lead to disaster. ? Your wife's experience is also apparently leading to her progressing this far more rapidly than you are quite ready for. It's a common piece of advice around here; always move at the pace of the slower spouse. It's ok to be slow. It's not ok for the other spouse to rush ahead and leave you in the dirt. This, too, is razing a big red flag to me. She has to want you to be fully onboard with this, and both of you will enjoy it far more if you're both on the same page, in full communication, and in full support of each other. ? You appear to be very conflicted about how much you do or don't want to know. It's a dawning realization that your wife is a very strongly sexual creature. That can change your view of her, and if you're not 100% open with each it could be for the negative. There's nothing wrong with her being so intensely sexual. It doesn't make her a slut, and doesn't mean she's less of a person for it. Give her a safe environment to open up her deepest desires to you, without judgment, without criticism, and you will find yourselves becoming much, much closer. Same goes for her giving you that environment. I don't see that environment right now. I see both of you holding back from each other. This is a major red flag too. ? I don't see a huge problem with your wife's sexual experiences overlapping with your relationship with her, in that you weren't serious with her yet. Ok, you were staying at your place, but by your own admission it wasn't a serious relationship yet. It would have been nice if she'd been more open with you about it, but it's water ten years+ under the bridge now. Let it go. Work on the future. Communicate with her. Your wife obviously has a very high sex drive. That's perfectly fine. Swinging is a way to satiate that desire. If your relationship is otherwise very loving, very close, then swinging can be a great release for her to have all the sex she craves. If your relationship isn't that way, then swinging will cause great harm to your relationship. As for your desire to have another man have sex with your wife; there's nothing wrong with that. For me, I can tell you this; I absolutely love watching my wife have sex with other men. I love seeing it, hearing her reaction, seeing her reaction, and if she's giving me head at the same time _feeling_ her reaction. It's intensely erotic. Probably the most erotic thing to me is when my wife had a regular boyfriend (two, at different times) and she played with them without condoms. When we had threesomes I really loved making love to her right after her boyfriend came inside of her. Early on, this was very confusing to me, like it seems with you. I tried really, really hard to understand how I could want and enjoy my wife having sex with other men. Nothing in our lives prepares us for understanding why I as a guy would want to have sex with my wife right after another man came inside of her. I gave up trying to answer that question. I came to realize it's not a logical question and doesn't have a logical answer. It's purely emotional, one that feels fantastic for her and for me. It's ok to want to see your wife having sex with another man. You don't have to explain it to yourself. It's ok to just relish the thought and enjoy it if it happens. It's great that your wife gets that wet. My wife occasionally does that with a swing partner, where she starts to (what I call) cream on her partner. You can see it on his cock as she's fucking him. Delightful It also lets me know she's thoroughly enjoying him, and having a great time. As for having 4"; stop worrying about it. Virtually every woman will tell you it's not about the size. That said, my wife has enjoyed a wide array of penis sizes and enjoys having it all. I've seen my wife have sex with men about your size. I've seen her have sex with a man whose penis was absolutely enormous, both in girth and length. She loves it all. You aren't insufficient; the proof of that is your wife is married to you after these ten years and chooses you. It's ok if you have little interest in having sex with other women. That might change, but if it never does it's ok. MFMs are lots of fun, and if that and variants (MMMFMMM, etc ) are all you ever do, it's great. In general; I'd say the two of you have quite a bit of talking to do before going any further with this. Feel free to keep asking us questions. We're a helpful bunch and will be happy to answer.

Rlrose, sounds like you're on a good path; both of you are interested, and both of you are considering a zillion questions and what ifs. This is all a healthy process! My wife and I did very much the same thing. We spent many months talking out all sorts of questions and what ifs, reading this board, asking things on this board, and went over many questions multiple times before we took the plunge. We've never regretted it, and have been doing this for 12 years now. Rules are very normal, especially for new couples. There is _nothing_ wrong with wanting rules. It helps you to have borders, some sense of control in what seems like a potentially very chaotic event. My wife and I had a lot of rules at the beginning. It helped us get our feet wet. The only rule we really have now (well, aside from condoms) is the 'golden parachute' rule; if either of us feels something is wrong and wants to bow out, we tell the other we need to leave. We would both get dressed, make our apologies, and leave without further discussion until we got back to our car. It allows either one of us to be in control of what's going on, and have a quick out if need be. We've never had to invoke that rule, but it has been a comfort knowing it's there. Everything is fair game now. As we became more comfortable in the lifestyle, we began to understand that the rules did give us comfort at first but then became limiting as it no longer felt chaotic. You may find the same. That in no respect means that rules are bad. Quite the opposite! It can seem bizarre to want to engage in swinging. All our lives we're raised to think of monogamy as the goal, cheaters are bad (they are! but cheating with consent isn't cheating), desiring people other than our partners is wrong, and your partner desiring other people is even worse. It's hard programming to overcome. But, programming it is. Did you know that more than 85% of mammals are non-monogamous by nature? Stands to reason humans are likely non-monogamous by nature as well, and certainly the rate of cheating seems to indicate that. Embracing the desires of your partner to want to have sex with someone else can be very opening, and very powerful for a relationship. There's an old saying around here about swinging; it's a magnifying glass. What it finds, it magnifies. If there are problems in your relationship, it will magnify them. If there is real love, real closeness it will magnify those. I imagine even considering swinging is having this effect on you and your husband based on your comments; you're likely making love a lot more, and feel closer to your husband. What do you think? :)

You're welcome :-) Yes, for those willing to forgo the concessions and other modern conveniences, it is a great place to unwind and break quarantine.

In response to njbm: Did we see other people on the beach? Yes, a handful. Did we talk to anyone? This isn't a particularly social activity. Between the nature of sunbathing in the nude, and the pandemic, people tend to keep to themselves and maintain significant distance. Think sixty feet, not six. Mask? Well, I did drape a towel across my midsection after a few hours in the sun, if that's what you're asking ?

My daughter Has spent the lockdown in our apartment in Manhattan, but was with us at our home 100 miles north of the city for about two and a half weeks late last month and early this one. The guest room downstairs was unavailable because it is being used for storage, so was in the bedroom across the hall from us. Early the lockdown, starting in March, my wife and I were having sex at least once a day, as orgasms helped her deal with anxiety around the SARS-CoV-2 virus. Lucky me. ☺️ it was lovely in many ways having my adult daughter with us, but my wife is unable to stifle her loud vocalizations when the cums without also diminishing the power and enjoyment of her orgasms. The upshot was that we didn’t fuck once in the time my daughter was there. (I can be a quiet cummer when I need to and my wife likes to be ejaculated on — below the neck — so I kept the edge off my horniness by jerking off on her, but she was happy for the privacy when my daughter went back to the city.)

Law, you make a good point . . . I'd vary in only one small detail. You say, "which (set of lives) is more authentic and which feels more contrived." Both the 'vanilla' and the 'lifestyle' lives can be authentic, neither needs to be contrived. They can both be 'real,' even if they are separate. For us, yes, what we do between the sheets with others, we love our swinger friends. But we also have a very satisfying vanilla life. Just two separate things.

Numex, you might be thinking of Woody Allen’s “Annie Hall” which has a scene like that.

My little bits of advice: Don't drink, not even a little. Don't have sex at least 24 hours beforehand. Engage in non-penetrative play (oral, hand jobs, etc.). If she's willing, have her put a lubed finger in your ass.

This thread reminds me of a scene from a movie, I forget which one. A husband and wife are seeing a marriage counselor. He asks each of the spouses alone at separate times, "How often do you have sex?" Husband replies, "Hardly ever, twice a week." In a jump scene, the wife says, "All the time, twice a week."

An interesting sensation, and it gets to the heart of the dichotomy between what is generally referred to as "vanilla life" and "swinger life". At the outset of exploring the lifestyle. just about everyone keeps those two lives separate owing to the 'taboo' aspect of the LS. It's not uncommon, after making that switch a few times, to ask oneself (or, more accurately, for a couple to ask themselves) which is more authentic and which feels more contrived. At least some couples end up embracing the idea that their swinger life is simply a part of their lives, their swinger friends are authentic and so on.

Vibrator recommendations always break the ice.

For what it's worth, our first attempts were "same-room" swap, first soft, then full swap. I don't think that in either case we felt like it was impersonal, but it was also far from an "orgy" situation, and we knew the other couple reasonably well. When we've done one-off MFM, it's never been with a third we knew well, it's often a casual pickup situation. The type of chemistry with the other people will determine more about the vibe, I think, then the configuration of bodies. It's relatively rare for Mrs. E to excitedly want to include a stranger, but when she's game, I want to take advantage of it. She tends to have much more fun with people she knows well, which can make finding new partners a challenge but also was a big deal to getting her comfortable enough to explore. As others have said, let her give you the signals about what she wants to think about and talk about further. She may want you to take the lead on being confident and showing her that her ideas are OK if she has some difficulty with the taboo, but her comfort level is what's going to make it a success.

Basically, if jealousy isn't an issue, treat them the same way you'd treat vanilla girlfriends. You should be polite to those you don't know very well, chummy with the ones you're close to. If jealousy is an issue, perhaps you shouldn't be swinging.

The approach of letting your wife decide on how to start would certainly send the right message to your wife that she is in control and you will make it fulfilling for her. It's all about her comfort, so ask her (without trying to tip the scales) what experience she finds most comfortable. It may be a same room or separate room couples swap, an MFM with you participating or maybe just being there, or maybe even an FFM if she has some Lesbian desires. You need to not only let her decide which arrangement she prefers, but also choose the person/people involved. Hubby let me be non-monogamous on my terms with no expectation of reciprocity. I appreciated it tremendously, but it took me two years before I wanted him to play. He was/is a very wise man - it work out well, including for him. ?

it's just nerves and they will subside as you get more accustomed to these situations.

We don't personally know any couples who met through swinging, but I have read accounts here and on other sites of people saying that is how they got together, so I'm sure it happens. I think the interesting part to me there is the sex part already has its box checked, where in the more usual scenario sex is happening simultaneously with attraction growing toward love. Although that's the way it usually happens, I think some breakups are caused by that too since the good sex may drowned out some quiet voices in someone's head whether this person is "the one" for them. Then over time, the sexual excitement initial peak starts to fade back to baseline, and those voices are still there, they can just be heard now, and things go downhill from there. I would agree with this, it's almost inevitable really since the more feeling connection, the more sex, and the more sex, the more connection. After that though, it turns into a "what feelings?" and "what is love?" sort of question. That's where I think swingers differ from married non swingers. They see sex at sort of a binary thing - sex just for sex sake, so like cheating spouse having one night stands, and then in love sex, like married couple. Swingers see a lot more room between those two, and it's more of a continuum.

I met my SO and present bf during a swing play. But it is not like we had played several times before developing a feeling for each other. The swing just became an initial meeting point, just like meeting for coffee (!), but they later pursued me to develop the friendship and fell in love. Bf came into my life much later.

If you're ever in Ontario, you should visit any of our clubs; smoking in restaurants and bars has been against the law here for many years.