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That is one First Post! I wonder what made you post this odyssey on a swinger forum and not a marital problems site.

We distinguish between rules and boundaries. Rules of the LS are universal , example "no means no". They are laws. Boundaries are limited to one or a few people. Boundaries exist in the context of fantasies and intentions. Boundaries can change my mutual agreement. By extension of "no means no", it is a rule that you one does not violate the most restrictive boundary.

Most likely the same thing guys think about when giving a woman oral.

Hello all. Need some advice on my marriage. My wife and I were married in December 2018 after dating for a little over a year. She is my second wife. My first wife and I started swinging about 8 years into our marriage and we had some very fun times. When I first met my current wife, I was very honest with her. I told her that I was a swinger, and I also told her that I had bi experiences. I was surprised that neither one of those facts freaked her out. She is very vanilla, but, nevertheless, she liked to hear all about my stories. She even told me that, if I ever felt the urge to be with a man, that I simply let her know and I could either go somewhere or we could come back to our place and she would watch. So, it was a dream come true. I was dating (at the time) this very beautiful, very smart, very sexy woman. She didn't judge me about my past and she even allowed me to play around if I ever felt the need to, which I never did. I wanted our relationship to be different. Eventually, she would talk to me about some of her ex's, as boyfriends and girlfriends often do. There was one ex in particular that she would talk about a little too often. When we would fantasize about a threesome, she would say that he would "do it in a heartbeat just to be with me again" and "he has a monster cock that I could barely handle!" She even showed me pictures and, I must admit, he had a great cock. After a while, however, all this talk about this ex started to bother me a little. When I would mention something to her, she would always blow me off with "have I ever given you any reason to think that I would cheat on you? Remember, you were the swinger, not me!" and "he just wants what he can't have any more." None of these reactions thrilled me. I was hoping for something like "you have nothing to worry about, but, if it really bothers you, I will talk about him and to him less." Well, that didn't happen. So, fast forward a little. We broke up at one point for about 2 or 3 months. I was going through a bout of depression and I just couldn't be a good boyfriend to her anymore, so I left until I could get my head together. Eventually, we did get back together and things were great. One day she tells me that she hopes I don't mind, but her ex wanted to come to her place and hang out and smoke weed. She assured me that he was just coming over as a friend and that he knew better not to try anything. So, reluctantly, I told her it was no big deal. After all, I was her boyfriend, not her master. The next night, I went to see her and she told me that it was fun hanging out with him, but he was like a wild monkey. She eventually had to tell him to leave because he was being such a horny bastard. After that night, however, I noticed he was texting her a lot more. One morning around 4 am I heard her phone go off and I looked because I was curious about who could be texting at such an hour. It was her ex. He just said something like "hey, are you awake?" Being a guy, I know what 4 am texts to ex girlfriends usually mean. It's a booty call. The next morning I told her to check her phone because C, her ex, had texted her at 4 am wanting to know if she was awake. She went berserk. She asked me what I was doing looking at her phone and I had no right and on and on. I left for work. A couple of weeks later, she went out with a friend one night and I decided to stay home. I know this is wrong, but I was curious about what was going on with her and C. So, I took out her laptop and logged into her iMessages. Again, I'm not proud, but I just wanted to know. Well, he didn't just act like a horny monkey the night he had come over. From what I can gather, they did not have sex, but he definitely stroked his cock for her while she watched. She even gave him her lotion to use as lube. He did not cum, however. They were discussing it and he said that they should get together and jerk off for each other, because that wasn't cheating since they weren't actually fucking. She responded with "no, things are going really well with my bf and I don't want to risk it." So, I started thinking to myself that, if things hadn't been going really well, did that mean she would fuck him? So, discovering that gave me even more reason to be suspicious and I found a treasure trove. There was a guy, 10 years her junior, who she always referred to as just a close friend of the family. His parents, his name was G, knew her parents and the kids would all play together. Again, G was just a good family friend and that was it. I then found a message string between them and, shortly before we met, she gave him a blowjob and let him cum in her mouth. They were talking about it for weeks...for him it was how amazing she was at sucking cock (she really is, best I've ever had) and she told him his cum tasted like candy (uh, bullshit). Anyway, it went on for weeks after. The discussing it back and forth did. Then I found that she had sent him a picture AFTER we started dating. It was a picture I had taken of her very swollen pussy after I had given her oral. She made me take it on her phone, but refused to send it to me. Two days later, she sent it to G with the caption "what would you do?" At this point, I'm shaking. I cannot believe what happened with the ex and then I also could not believe why she would lie about the "family friend." I was sure she was still messing around with one or both of them. Before I put her laptop away, I checked a couple of more strings. One was with a "platonic friend" of hers who is 20 years her senior and she would always describe to me as the older brother she never had. Well, that prior Mardi Gras, she sent this older brother a picture of her tits. He responded with "wow. they are still magnificent." I looked at one more string and it was with some guy I never heard of and there were exactly 55 naked pictures of her in various poses. This was before we even met, but what got me was that she told me that, because she was once a teacher, she NEVER EVER sent naked pictures to anyone and never even took more than a couple for her eyes only. So, I quickly put the laptop away and she came home and everything went back to normal. I tried my best to forget about it all, but it drove me nuts. Especially if we would fight and she would throw my swinging history back at me if she thought I was suspicious of her and some guy "friend." She barely has any girl friends, maybe 4, and she has a boatload of guy "friends." She just loves hanging out with guys more she says, She also says she has never done ANYTHING to make me suspicious of her. Little did she know... In any event, we stayed together. Despite my discoveries, I really do love her and I do believe, in her way, she really loves me. We would end up getting married in December 2018 and things were awesome in the beginning. We got along, we had tons of sex (including blowjobs after a long day at work), she would cook for us, clean for us. She is and was amazing. Well, every once in a while, I would keep checking her laptop just to see if it was all bullshit. That she was treating me well just to keep me around to take care of her. One night I found that a mere week after we got married, she took pictures of herself in various poses in very sexy red lingerie and sent them to the ex! I was floored, again. So, once I discovered that, I just sort of gave up for a bit. We started fighting a lot more. She would keep telling me I was never talking to her anymore and that she couldn't understand what was wrong with me. One night it all came to a head and I told her I had seen the pictures she had sent to her ex a mere two weeks after we got married. She went berserk again. She kept calling me a piece of shit for going through her laptop and how dare I and I had better leave or she was going to go sleep at her Dad's and tell her whole family what a liar I was. I kept asking her to explain why I was the liar when she sent the pictures and then she told me that I was psychotic and what I think I saw didn't really happen. Before I left, I showed her that I had forwarded the whole conversation, including the pictures, to my phone. She just told me to get my shit and get the fuck out. I was gone for about 3 weeks when she called me one night and asked me to come see her. She begged for forgiveness and told me how sorry she was and how it was horrible and that if I wanted to get a divorce, she understood, but she wanted to work it out. It was her first marriage and she just didn't know how to act, as she put it. In the end, I decided to come back believing that she was sorry and that it would never happen again. Now, her phone goes off like a bell constantly tolling 12 noon and it's always guy "friends." I have just given up. Finally, I get to my dilemma. Despite all of her faults, I still truly love her. She is a fantastic person and wife despite her shortcomings in some areas described above. She clearly also wants to stay with me. Recently, we have been getting along much better. We are back to having regular sex, oral and otherwise, and I don't even flinch when her phone goes off anymore. My dilemma is this, I used to be a swinger. I enjoyed it while I was doing it, but deep down, I always thought I wanted a vanilla relationship. She clearly cannot give that to me without some kind of flirting with other guys. She obviously needs to find validation from men, and her marriage is not enough. When we first got together, we would discuss threesome fantasies with other guys and they would always get us both off. Since I do love her, and I want it to work, I am thinking about offering her an open relationship. I would tell her absolutely everything I discovered in my "investigations" and that clearly she needs to flirt with men and maybe even fool around a little. If that is what she needs, I would explain to her that I am willing to have that sort of open relationship. My only disclaimer is that she has to be totally honest. No more shenanigans behind my back. If you want to send sexy naked pictures to guys because it gets you off, I will take them. I really don't think she would ever have sex with another guy while she is with me. She will flirt and get naked and maybe even mutually masturbate, but I truly don't think it would turn into fucking. I did swing before with my first wife as I mentioned. She would literally go out on "dates" with other men, with me knowing and they would usually end up with me getting a picture on my phone of her sucking the guys cock. It was hot. I can't be hypocritical now and let the wife I truly love not have what she wants. If it's just flirting and getting naked, I don't care. I would even suggest we try a mfm threesome at some point since we would talk about it in the beginning. My worry is that I am afraid she will get so pissed off at me for spying and finding her out that it would be the end of our relationship. I want to avoid that. From what I described here, sorry it was so fucking long, does she seem like someone who would be into an open relationship? Or does she seem like just a cheating whore who just wants as many men as she can have? I figure, that If she wants fuck around, why not fuck around together? I think it would be hot to watch her use her blowjob skills on some unsuspecting guy until he couldn't control himself and end up blowing his load in her mouth or on her tits. I welcome advice from women and men. Please and thank you. If you all think this is a lost cause because she is just a horrible person, speak your truth. I can take it. It's just that from where I sit, we can kill two birds with one stone. She can flirt or whatever she wants and I will know about it and even join in as a couple. What do you all think? Is it worth giving it a shot and approaching her with this? Or do you think she will be so pissed, she will just make me leave again? P.S.: One last thing. I'm interested in what people think about the snooping and discovering things issue. Is the person who snoops more to blame for not being trusting of the other, or is the person who messed around more at fault, or are they both at fault, the one for not trusting and the other messing around? When I was in my 20s, I was caught messing around after my then girlfriend snooped. I didn't make a big deal about her snooping at all, I just kept apologizing for fucking around. So, this question has shown itself twice in my life. Anyway, thank you for reading my epic swinging question. Love to all. Have a good night! R

Here my 2 cent on this. I am not a fan either of incest porn but, but from most "stories lines" all people are willing to do it and have sex with one another. The porn I hate is the ones that glorified rape and that. Not a fan of Kink for that. I think rape is no joke. The endless stories we hear from rape from hear real people, the stories we see from Law and Order SVU and the countless tv and movie we have seen. Rape is no joke and should NEVER be glorified.

I'll chime in. Everyone involved in swinging tends to agree that communication and trust are two key features to a successful swinging life, and it sounds like both are a little lacking. You have to open and honest with each other before you can introduce another person into the picture, otherwise your fantasy would become a nightmare. I take issue with the fact that she seems to be sneaking sexy behavior with all different characters, and then getting defensive about you snooping. It's not the sexual nature of the acts that are problematic. I would find it sexy if my wife found the confidence to share a few sexy pictures, but she would be open it (maybe even have me take the sexy photo session or at least share the product of said photo shoot ). It's the sneaking and then the defensiveness afterwards that makes this a red flag issue.

Vibrator recommendations always break the ice.

I'm going go try a different take on this question. Although jealousy has never been an issue for us, my wife has sometimes had difficulty interacting with the other women present at lifestyle clubs. She sometimes finds it hard to know what to speak about with them. Her theory is that women, when they are getting to know one another, often talk about kids, family, etc. For lifestyle friends, this is not as comfortable, so she's sometimes found herself trying to think of what to talk about.

Some people we used to play with are more friends than playmates. If there is jealousy, you are in the wrong hobby.

Perverted Petra here: I'm really into sucking dick after intercourse, whether it was with me, or Lora or Clair; tasting her and his fluids gives me all kinds of emotions and gets me excited. Seeing what had just happened makes me jealous, sucking his dick while they're playing with my hair and breasts makes me feel submissive, but also powerful - like I'm taking control of the situation. Once he's erect again I want to be taken doggy while I do oral on her. Again making me both submissive and dominant (like she wasn't enough for him); doing my best to please both a woman and a man and getting please myself. IDK, I just like it.

We finally did set up a lunch meet as she could never get the video to work. The Lunch meet happened, she was very nice and sweet, but she wasn't interested in me, just the wife. So we passed.