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Two things: The first is that since the pictures were vanillish if a bit wild and intended for non LS friends to see, how did you friend make the leap to you being swingers? The second is , after all these years how did this finally play out? I ask this because there was a time when my wife was shocked by finding out that her best friend was a Lesbian. She was confused and heartbroken. She considered just ending the friendship. Fortunately she thought things through before saying anything. She decided that this friend had gone through some of my wifes transformative moments and my wife through hers ,and through that all they had held firm to their friendship. This lady hadn't changed anything about herself. All of her admirable traits were still there. My wife just had a bit more information. She decided that she needed to adjust her view point . She went from an uninformed person as far as same sex relationships into who she is now. They remain as they were, friends for longer than the forty years that we have been together. This friend is the only non LS person that my wife has felt free to share our LS choice with.

Well for someone that feels its not there place to butt in I feel like she kinda bull in the China shopped it. So I had something like this pop up once, they say my picture on a swing site, to which I replied, curious, so do you visit swing town often? Are you a member there, you little minx you never told me you were into swinging! She did not have an answer just denied being a swinger. I then asked her if she had known before seeing the picture, to which she said no. I proceeded to say that is because you are my friend not my fuck buddy. I know how to have an appropriate relationship with my friends and family without having sex with them. And I know how to talk respectfully and I know when to mind my own business. Currently you are talking about something that you have no right to talk to me about. Who ever showed you that picture is a member of swing Town and if they aren't swinging yet they want too. So we can be done with this conversation and go back to a normal friendship, devoid of sexual references, or you can take your judgemental ass out that door and never darken it again, because I am a grown adult and I'll fuck whomever I want in the privacy of my own home. She left but then returned two days later very apologetic. Don't let them shame you, your grown ass adults.

Wow, so that is a loaded question. Honestly,, the answer is "it depends." By that I mean it depends on what is happening in the room, what is happening to the dick I am sucking on? Like is he getting hard, if he isn't I'm trying to troubleshoot his cock, if it is I'm probably proud of myself, is the dick big and getting bigger, or huge and getting super huge? I might be getting excited or I might be thinking about prep I can do to minimize the soreness I will experience later. Is it just me and him, or is there a crowd or an audience if I got an audience I'm wondering if I look sexy, am I putting on a good show, is there anyone getting jealous, should I share . If there is no one else present, I am probably focused on sucking that dick, and wondering how his Cum tastes. I like oral activities after all.

It is said that porn is the world if a man was able to design the world. It is also said that people who are addicted to porn have to keep going to more extreme types of porn to keep the 'thrill'. It looks like he forgot that porn is pretend and that there are penalties for breaking the rules. I think that this is similar to the Janet Jackson/ Justin Timberlake Super Bowl fiasco. They had surrounded themselves with other people who were of the same mindset that a 'wardrobe malfunction' would be fine and would open the doors to opening up sexuality on television. This may have been true in their circle of people, and even in the LA area...California is much more liberal with things like that. But the Bible belt was, and still is, nowhere close to being ready to accept that and it exploded. Years later, we are still not close to having topless women on television (unless you have a pay channel). Murder, death, killing, drug abuse, etc. is just fine, but nipples, NEVER! In the world of porn, no doesn't always mean no. Ron is about to learn that the real world isn't like the porn world (if he is found guilty). There are not many hard rules in swinging, but even here no means no.

Mine's blue. Didn't you get the memo? Or maybe it was me who didn't get the memo...hmm. There's someone else in our neighborhood though that has exactly the same make, model, year, and color SUV. Maybe I should go talk to them...

Cheating is a woman or a man fucks around with another person while hiding it from their spouse. Cuckolding is when the wife flirts with other men openly and has sex with them openly, the spouse here knows and the wife does not care. Often this comes with some humiliation for the husband. Some husband's want to be cuckolded some don't. The term does not mean consent. It just means he knows and is powerless to stop it and has no say in how or when it happens. A Hotwife has permission to fuck around, think of it like a hall pass from her marriage. Some men like to pick the other man, some allow the wife to decide. So for instance, I travel for work, while I am traveling my husband and I have an agreement that I can fuck whoever I want. I'm honest about my sexual proclivities, I tell him about the guys I date. Sometimes I even send pictures, videos and texts giving him details of the evening.

What area do you live? What is her Madison profile name? Wife here....gangbangs come in all shapes and sizes. We've found that getting guys to show up isn't as easy as you'd think. Many men will respond to requests and not show up. We tried craigslist a few years ago and it was flake city. We've posted on the swinger site we're on and have had better luck. Try to keep the number fairly low (3-6) unless you're going to have a fluffer on scene to keep the guys up. Make sure your significant other screens they guys and the rules are known. I'm not into humiliation or rough play. I wanted sex with multiple men, not get slapped around, spanked, etc. He made sure that guys followed the rules. Expect some soreness afterward, the next day. Again, depends on the number of guys.

My brother had a VW microbus, complete with 8 track deck, flowers on the side, etc. However, I can't say I've ever knowingly spotted him on this forum ?? ?? ??

I remember being told that people who had a VW van were pot smoking hippies that believed in free love. I don’t see many of them but I’m always looking to see who gets out of one.

Mrs Doc doesn't like to floss while giving a BJ so initially, I trimmed close because I absolutely LOVE her blowjobs. After our first toe dipping experiences into swinging 15 years ago, we noticed that most couples we saw were at least trimmed. I shave cock, balls and pubic area clean twice a week. Mrs Doc shaves but leaves a landing strip. We prefer our partners that way as well and we've found that it does tend to eliminate any lingering mustiness.

I have intimidated men, but not with my sexual past.

Looking back we did move fast. I’m sure it looks from my posts that everything went perfectly. There were bumps from the very start. Some of it was my guilt complex. Funny it led to marriage lol. You can say my cheating on him and then letting him be with my girlfriend led to us talking about our relationship. Talk led to marriage. All of our play was based on my friends. He went along with my wants. He had no place to discuss what we were doing. He begged me to let him tell his closest friend. I said absolutely not. Again it was my guilt that gave in. It led to much more with him. It was much easier doing it with guys not in my everyday life. My first time with him is burned in my brain. I can’t say I wanted him in that part of our lives. I needed to put myself in my husband’s head. I was controlling our play. He had fun for sure. I think I took something away from him. I shared my husband he wanted to share what we have with someone who meant something to him. Don’t get me wrong, I liked our friend very much. I had to wrap my head around that he is in our everyday life. And it’s not that my husband needed to watch me have sex, he had watched for a year. Ingrained in my memory I was not very active that first time. He was very nervous even if he was encouraged. From that first time things changed. I got very comfortable. I used to say my husband was happy because he knew where I was when he traveled. Yes I feel safe when he stays. We are not poly like you. I don’t have two husbands, I don’t have two lovers. We do have a special bond that is too complicated to explain.

You and your husband have accomplished in a much shorter time what took me a several years to achieve. You have my admiration. Your husband's friend may not be your lover, but I'm sure that your husband feels more secure having him there than you being alone. And the same for him/her/you. Something could happen to anyone of us at anytime, and it is best not to be alone. I find it even more important now that we have children to have a family of more than just a husband.

My husband has encouraged me to have his friend stay over when he travels for business. He asked why would I want to be alone at nights. He doesn’t stay as often as he first did even if we do enjoy our nights together. He is not my lover, he is a very good friend who I have relations with. I also have a girlfriend that stays over. My husband has a woman that he sleeps with on business trips. I am happy he isn’t alone all the time when he’s away.

Overnight stays solo are not on the table for us, although we've talked about it being a possibility with the two couples we both know and play together with fairly regularly. A little too much intimacy for separate play as far as we're concerned.

I have made trips overseas to spend time with old boyfriends. However, I recognize that this can be dangerous. I have definitely rekindled strong feelings towards them. My husband and I have to work very hard to maintain and gore our primary relationship with each other.

Well thank you for all the posts. Where it stands now we wrote her a short email basically saying we are sorry she feels that way about our lifestyle but hope that in the future she can accept it and that we have enjoyed her as a friend. She responded by saying such a short email proves to her that my wife hasn't changed and won't change so that basically she doesn't want to be friends anymore. I guess all in all this is the way things should be, this friendship seems to be getting toxic. Secondly for those of you asking about the pictures. The pictures are not on a lifestyle website. They are on a normal social networking site and only my wife's friends are able to view them. We have since made the restrictions even more. Additionally, the pictures are nothing more than us dancing and having cocktails. There is no skin shown or anything raunchy

I tend to agree with LikeMinds here.. expecting that you will go on forever as friends is expecting a LOT out of people. I think a few pieces of information would be helpful here... 1. How long have you all been friends? 2. How did they end up finding out about your lifestyle 3. Is this a vanilla site that you are posting swingery pics on (it sounds like it). From the way the email was worded I'm guessing MySpace or even Facebook (or something similar). The truth is when you come out to your friends you have to expect that you will lose some of them. A real friend/ a best friend that is really your friend should (in an ideal world) love you no matter what. But, what you have to ask yourself is how good of friends were these people really? Did you purposely come out to them because you really thought they were THAT good of friends? or did they find out accidentally? If you did not intentionally tell them then I'm guessing the reason for not doing so is the same reason most of us don't share this side with our vanilla friends... because we don't expect them to accept it. Somewhere in the back of your mind you had an idea that if they found out they might react this way. LM pointed out that you are young (24 I believe she noted, from other posts), so I'm guessing your friends are in your same age range. Unfortunately, at that age people THINK they know who they really are... but are really just learning. I say that because I still remember what it was like at that age... and I can look back now and know the truth of where I really was. We are all pretty idealistic at that point. You are no exception and neither are your "friends". She obviously had an idealistic view of you and your wife and now the you that she thought you were is not the true you. She says you've lost sight of the real you... the truth is that she never knew the TRUE you to the extent that she thought she did (although she does admit that you were always more open-minded than she is) and she is now angry to realize that and she feels like she's been duped into believing you were someone that she created in her mind. As for how to respond. I think that comes down to your decision as to whether or not you want to attempt to keep them as friends. If you don't, then I'd go with Its'so's response. If you do want to keep them as friends then I would latch onto that one key piece of what she said... that your wife was always more open minded than she is. Go with that. It honestly sounds to me from reading her email that she is trying to wrap her mind around what you guys are doing and somehow thinks that now that is all you are and therefore completely not the people she thought she knew. I think it's important to remind her / them that you are still the same people that they knew before. You just happen to have a hobby that they don't share. They may not find it morally acceptable and that's ok, it becomes up to you to explain that you do. They can either accept you as you are, or they can move on. Let them know that you want them in your life if they want to be there, but if they are going to continue to judge you (which they are doing) then you won't put up with it. There is no reason that this needs to be even be an issue between you or come up in conversation again after this is settled. The messages you got remind me a lot of the discussions (via phone and email) between my mom and I when I accidentally outted myself to her almost 10 years ago. We went back and forth in a similar manner (including her discussing it with my at the time husband) and our basic response was "we are adults this is what we have chosen". Eventually, the topic was completely dropped and has NEVER been discussed again.

Agree 100%. Don't get nasty or defensive, or again, feel the need to defend your choices.

A reply like that would certainly make you feel good in the moment. A bit of venting, a bit of retribution, a bit 'sticking it to her'. Unfortunately it would also just feed into the drama. It's not going to make her rethink anything, it's going to make her respond with even more passive aggressive 'non-judgmental' behaviour. She'll play the victim, she will talk to all your friends about how she tried to support you as a friend in a non-judgmental way and you responded in an aggressive manner that used to be "out of character". I'd also expect she would start to let slip your swinging as well, as further signs that "you've changed". That's a bit of mind-reading there. Might not happen, but a response like that would increase the likelhood of a situation like that manifesting itself. Much better to either not respond, or to respond in a nice way. It won't feel as good to you, but it's better for you.

I certainly agree with the majority here and my reaction would be to send a stiff little reply saying something along the lines of "Thank you for revealing yourself as judgmental, narrow-minded and intrusive, otherwise I might have continued to think you were someone I might want as a friend." However, if you are at all desirous of keeping a relationship with this person, you need to go into educator mode. She's taking the standard morality of our culture, judging you and coming up shocked. You can't really say "don't judge me" because that's already happened. All you can do (and I stress, you don't NEED to do this and she doesn't sound worth saving to me, but you may wish to try) is get together with her (I wouldn't try this over email) and express that you understand that she might be shocked, but you'd like to explain some things. Then give her a summary of the swinging ethics and rationale, as well as a chance to ask questions. On the plus side, this gives you a chance to salvage the friendship and expand her world view. It also makes you the much better person. On the minus side, it's annoying and she might end up even more upset than before (you've THOUGHT about this horrible betrayal of marriage and decided it was OKAY!!!!). But I did want to point out the option. Mrs. Ivory, who wants every situation to be a learning situation.

Part of me wants to agree with you but I think the reality is that a lot of people will be taking hikes around you if that is really how you conduct your affairs. (I dont' mean you you knb, I mean people in general) Unfortunately this isn't just a vanilla phenominon either, people in the lifestyle will judge and disavow you too for your lifestyle activities. There are people that are actice swingers themselves that will decide at some point that you swing "too much" or "too little" and will turn their backs. People have lost friendships over swinging too much or swinging with the wrong crowd or with the wrong color or because they screw single males or because they don't screw singles etc etc etc etc - the list can go on forever. It may be wrong and it may not be fair but everyone judges and everyone is judged by others. When someone does something or becomes something that someone else finds distastefull they will severe the ties whether it makes sense to anyone else or not. My question still stands to the OP, How was this gal able to see your pictures? The reason I ask is any pictures you put up anywhere is your billboard and people will judge you based on what they see and even though that picture may be a nanosecond frozen in time out of your life that is what they are going to base their perception of you on.

Ouch, I sure that had a little sting to it and perhaps even A LOT of sting to it. the first thing I have is a question, if she is so saintly where is it she is seeing your pictures???? Anyway, here are a few thoughts. Some people do find some things morally objectionable and are so turned off by them that they cannot continue a relationship. As an example if I found out one of my friends was a child molester I would not be able to morally rectify that enough to maintain a relationship with that person no matter how much enjoyed that person up untill the time I found out. Unfortunately some people hold swingers in almost as high esteem as child molesters and murderers etc etc. From the tone and the terms this gal used I would say that she finds the whole concept of swinging totally distastefull and offensive and her opinion of you is now in the gutter. In reading her message I get the tone that she is saddened that you are not what she perceived you to be and that she is not able to morally rectify her distaste for your swinging activities and allow herself to maintain a friendship with you. That is her call and there really isn't anything you can do about it to change her views. Her views may change over time as her own life and her own moral beliefs and values change but that is out of your control. This is one of the realities and one of the facts of life of the lifestyle. some people find it offensive and distastefull. This is exactly why so many people value privacy and discretion so dearly. Friendships can be lost over it. Anyway, my advice is don't argue, don't get mad and above all don't try to change her mind or her values. As she expressed how she felt about your activities but did not appear to try and get you to change your beliefs or behaviours I think it is fair for you to express that you are saddened by the loss of her friendship and companionship but as she did not try to change your moral beliefs you should not try to change hers or attempt to defend yourselves or defend your decisions made as consenting adults. You could say you are saddened by the loss of her friendship but understand that some people will not understand or agree with your lifestyle choices. I would also state that you will leave the door open for any future correspondence should she ever have a change of heart and then leave it at that.

I like the advice of just a short, simple response. Don't go into details trying to defend your decisions of entering this lifestyle. After all, they were YOUR decisions, not hers. Then just give her some space. She'll have to decide if the friendship is worth overlooking, not necessarily accepting, your choices. The ball is in her court. A true friend will overlook your decisions in the lifestyle. They don't have to agree with them, but they respect you enough to stay out of that part of your life and keep the friendship where it belongs.

"Advice on where to go from here with this?" I would send a short reply saying: "We will both miss both of you". And that would conclude the message. Signing it is optional.

I think the belief that you should be "friends no matter what" is unrealistic in life and I'm always perplexed by how many people think this. There are always reasons for a friendship to end. Not all friendships are meant to last forever. Yes, she is judging you, and it is okay for her to do so; saying she is "not one to judge" is silly, but people are so hung up on being nonjudgmental that they often feel compelled to add that overused statement to their criticism. Right now, you are probably judging her...what kind of person she is, whether you want to remain friends, etc. We make judgments in life based on the knowledge we gain, and from there we make decisions based on our judgments. From reading your other posts, I know that you and your wife are both about 24 years old. You have many years ahead of you and new friends will be made. Even though you are the godfather of this woman's child, I encourage you not to let it get in the way of how you handle your friendship with her. Don't feel obligated to maintain a friendship that may no longer be healthy. I think this woman is both surprised by what she discovered about you and maybe even a bit envious. The last thing I recommend is telling her to "shut up." That would only make matters worse for you. Make her angry and she is likely to say horrible things about you to others in your community. From reading your prior posts you sound like a mature, level-headed couple. Use that to your advantage and be diplomatic in your communication with her. Your anger is understandable, but you don't need to let her see it. Since I don't know the depth of your friendship I can't tell you what you should say to her. What I would say to my friend would depend on whether I felt it was time to break off the friendship. If so, I'd keep my e-mail succinct, I'd not go into my personal beliefs about swinging, or my relationship with my spouse, or how we play, or moral issues. I'd stay away from hot topics and would close the discussion down as quickly as possible. Please keep us posted on your thoughts and how things go. Good luck.

They don't pay your bills or write your paycheck... It's your life, live it the way you want to.

It sounds like your friend had an 'image' in her mind of your wife being someone to look up to and as someone to strive to be like. The fact that she has a child while unmarried yet acts this way sort of makes sense in light of this. Your wife was the what she wanted to be, instead of who she was. Now your wife does something she doesn't understand and completely shatters that image your friend had of your wife. She is trying to 'save' your wife in such a way that can reestablish your friends mental image of your wife. It is sort of like hero worship when you figure out your hero is 100% human. My guess is she now angry with herself for that hero worship and being what most weak minded people do when they are angry with themselves, she will take it out on and blame your wife for ruining her perfect illusion.

I don't know where to go, but she is judging you regardless of her statement otherwise. Just this quote alone highlights that: "some where along the lines, you lost sense of who you really are". That quote taken by itself could be non-judgmental. But, when put in the context of all the comments about morality and swinging, yeah she's judging you alright. Generic advice; A person when faced with something they can not change has two choices. They can either (a) adapt or (b) remove it from their lives. This person might be trying to do the latter, but in a somewhat polite way. For your own part, you have a choice too. This person does not approve of you swinging, and it's obvious it'll be a catching point between you. You can't expect her to be more accepting of you two as swingers. You can decide to either remain friends or choose not to. If you do decide to remain friends, I'd make it clear that your swinging activities are not up for discussion. You don't ask her to participate, and there's no reason for her to be concerned or otherwise even aware of your activities.