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We were all new once. Introspection is hard. Acknowledging fantasies, professing intentions, setting boundaries, those are hard as well. Monogamy insulates and contains, what is inside becomes familiar and safe. Once that insulation becomes porous, weakens, and cracks, those inside are no longer contained...but neither do they enjoy the comforting protection. Your conversation required courage...for both of you.

If everyone got vaccinated promptly, the pandemic would probably end soon. But that would be too easy. A friend of ours told me he is not taking it because he does not react well to medicine. I asked him how does he react to ventilators?

We sure hope so ?

Yesterday after work, I WFH, went to the gym and my new friend was there. I apologized for not following up on getting together. I suggested a Starbucks after the gym. There goes the calories. Even if she told me before I wanted to get to know the real Why they wanted to meet us. I already knew about the attempt with their friends that she stopped, I wanted to know the real reason. She said they never thought of swinging, never. When her friends opened up to her she thought it was a crazy idea that they were having sex with others. The others were Alan and me I’m thinking. Her friends told her how freeing it was, having been married 25 years and only being with one person. She mentioned menopause has changed their sex life, something new ignited a newness. They questioned the why and the why nots. I asked why she wants to be with a woman, I had asked her the last time. She explained she never thought of ever being with a girlfriend then all the lesbian relationships on TV and movies and her friend telling her she should open her mind. She said she was ready to explore two years ago, just couldn’t with her friends. Asked about her husband and seeing him with me, she hesitated and said yes she wants that. I felt like I was interviewing her, asked what she really wanted, her scenario. She said she didn’t know and wanted me to go slow like we did with her friends. I went home happy I saw her again, she is a very nice and funny person. The more we talked the more I liked her.

Thank you, Peter. I used those two instances as anecdotes supporting the point that, nationwide, there is not any agreement on the use of so-called healthcare passports. But, yes, the Executive Orders differ from state-to-state. However, the symbolism behind them is as much the point as is the actual order, right?

So sorry science became a political issue. It should be everyone against the virus, not some people against others.

With all the shutdowns and not going to the gym for what feels like forever I finally started going after my vaccinations. It was nice seeing some of the women who I had seen over the years, women and men who I only know in passing at the gym. My old gym friends who I would have very little conversation and mostly just idle gym talk. There are people you notice and say hello to and don’t know their names. I was on the elliptical, with my mask on, and not paying attention to anyone and then I see a woman two machines over having mask problems. I recognize her from classes we both took over the years. Feeling bad I motion that I have extra masks she could have. I now know she wanted to get my attention. She told me her name and said she knows someone in common with me. My heart blipped when she said who, a woman we met a few years ago. She said she knows we haven’t talked in years but she her friend knew I worked out in this gym. Don’t know how she knew or how she would know I would be there at that time. I didn’t know to react when she said if we could talk after our workout. The couple she knew were one of the couples we met on a site who were just starting out. The couple lived not close to us, something we did for many reasons. Now I have someone who is in our everyday life asking me questions about swinging. I couldn’t get a real answer of how she got my name or why her friend would bring my name up. Her friends are swingers, they have met others after us. Her promise of discretion is gone, I’m not sure how to handle this new friend. Her and husband have not met anyone, even if they are friends with swingers. She told me that they have talked and knew her friends met us and for a year her and her husband talked about what it would be like. Her friends refused to be the first for them, too close they said. So much could go wrong and jealousy could ruin the friendship. She asked if we would just meet with her and her husband for drinks. Her and her husband have been vaccinated and have been monogamous in their marriage. She showed me a picture of her husband who I recognized from the gym. They both workout and she said they live a healthy life. In the years we have met others we always kept our lives separate from our play. Not sure if meeting someone who knows more about me, maybe stalking me, is someone we should get involved with.

Paused out of an abundance of caution for a one in a million blood clot risk, while birth control has a 1 in 1000 risk.

We will not be playing with anyone until we have been vaccinated and most definitely won’t be playing with anyone else after that if they have not been vaccinated! We really don’t care how long it takes either. There are more important things in life then getting some extra on the side.

In Florida, Caliente and Paradise Lakes are within a couple of miles of each other. They are located about 45 minutes north of downtown Tampa. We’ve preferred Caliente lately.

Absolutely. We are restricting future partners to those that have the covid vaccine and the HPV vaccine.

What I call an interview was fun for me, looking back possibly uncomfortable for her. She came across as educated, health conscious and I would consider attractive making our chat enjoyable. We talked about women talk, and how she is handling changes. Her reason for wanting to enjoy others was much different than ours. We were looking for a woman, I wasn’t interested in adding a man to the equation, it just happened to find that unicorn we ended with a couple. I told her my fear was my husband watching me with a man. She said her husband is fine with that and she is looking forward to the complete experience.

Reading between the lines: I'm only a wannabe but I imagine that swinger events aren't like they are in the movies. Like being at any other event, you’ll see people that you find attractive and a lot of people that you don’t. In your dating years, if you didn’t find someone suitable, you’d sensibly call it a night and try again another time but I get the impression that your husband 'has to get laid' and that if he doesn’t, he feels he’s missed out. You like quality. He likes quantity. In light of this, maybe you can talk it through together. Maybe you two can work on finding more attractive partners for you, be they part of a couple or in MFM or Hotwifing scenarios. Finding a group of attractive swingers who party together more exclusively might help. You and your husband might also enjoy meeting swing friends in non swinging environments. You certainly seem to have an interest in swinging but right now, your individual needs are not being met… yet. Finally, if you were to give up swinging altogether, would you mind if your husband were to be a ’third’ for Hotwifing couples? There are many permutations available. If you love one another and are both enabling each other to have your needs met a happy ending can be achieved. Every good wish,

Yes. Truly a tragedy. But it's not limited to the subject science. We've entered a bizarre time in the world where literally *everything* has become politicized, often to the point of complete absurdity. I could rant at length about this topic, but I'll spare everyone! Lol.

I'm sorry this is where things have ended up :( Like GCC said, swinging is a magnifier, which can be great, or can be horrible. To me, it seems the heart of the issue here is boundaries. Perhaps not enough of them to start with, and then the ones there were, those got blown past. I think at this point you need to decide if you are now willing to have any level of swinging in the relationship. If the answer to that is yes, then you need to qualify that yes with what the boundaries are going to be. Number one is no more basically living with play friends, and then always stay together play together, and so on. It sounds like there were some good times and good things that you both enjoyed. You can get back to that if both of you are willing, but it will take both of you. If your answer to that is no, then he has a decision to make. Even at it's best, swinging is a fleeting thing, not a 24/7 thing. Hopefully he will realize that.

Hope you get vaccinated. It’s beneficial to both of you and your community. Other than rank speculation, there is no valid cost benefit analysis reason not to get it. We know people who suffered and died who wish they had the opportunity to get it.

One point of clarification on your excellent post AndrewandAnna, I believe Greg Abbott‘s executive order effects only businesses “doing business with the state of Texas“. Also, a lot of executive orders issued by governors and presidents (Of all political parties) in the end don’t stand up to litigation. But, that’s probably beside the point from the perspective of Abbott and DeSantis; I suspect these orders are largely in service of political theater.

Swinging is and will always be a team sport (something that the two of you do together or not at all). Swinging will make a great relationship even greater but it will also take a weak relationship and destroy it. It magnifies the relationship and will make any cracks bigger. Him working and staying at one of the other couples that you were with is (as you already know) a terrible idea and something that shouldn't have been allowed to happen from the beginning. Does he stay there because of distance or just because? It's time to have a serious sit down talk about this and you might already know what that outcome is. all I can say is that if either of us wanted to stop, we would both stop and never question why or look back. I'm sorry to hear this and hope for the best for you. Please let us know what happens.

this is not an unsusual situation. it's Ok to give things a try before you decide whether or not you like them, and if your hubby loves swinging but you don't then it's also understandable that you stuck with it for him... but it's not fair to be expected to continue to participate in activities you really don't enjoy. Rule #1 for us (and most ppl we know in the LS) is: Nobody does anything they are uncomfortable with - and that is a non-negotiable rule. But I also understand your husband's feelings. Marriage is often about compromise. Maybe there is a compromise somewhere in the middle you will both be happy with.

This is the wife of a bi man who told me early on in our relationship that he wanted another man's dick orally but, was will to go all the way. He didn't know what my reaction would be. Consequencely my reply after some thought was, the subconscious mind and one's fantasiese are cosely related and meant to be explored. This was an open door invitation to our first experience. We immediately signed up for SLS and planned to meet a single bi-courious man at his apartment for some afternoon delight. He was a nice looking man, very gracious and made us feel right at home. We started by take off our clothes and laid naked on the bed with all six hand's exploring each other. I saw my husband going down on his hard dick and I got on the other side. We sucked him to completion. It was a rememberable first time and now we've graduated to an ongoing relationship with another couple. They're both bi. I think bi guys are hot.

Since you seem to be so worried about this, repeat after me: "I have no idea what you are talking about." If that doesn't work, add "you sexual deviant, please go away"

U guys seem great. Honey just goes to the honey pot when we are with a first time player.

I have some clarification on how our contact happened. Contrary to what I thought was stalking she told me she has been too nervous to approach me for over two years, one of those was during lockdown. Her friends confided in her how they were looking to find a couple, and approached her and her husband. She said that her and her husband were not into anything like that. What happened was her friend telling her how they finally met us. She swears it was coincidence that she belonged to the same gym I belong to. I still don’t remember telling anyone I belong to the gym, possible? Maybe. Things changed after her friends met us. They kept telling her that the experience was what they needed. The way she explained it to me, her husband agreed to play with the couple we met. She backed out several times. She couldn’t go through with it, being friends was a bigger problem. She said the closest they got to playing was her husband encouraged her to play and he wouldn’t do anything unless she was comfortable. The night she was prepared to go all the way our friends husband got as far as putting his hand in her pants when she froze again. That is when my name came up. Better to try with strangers than friends. I explained we are more open to women who are curious and that our focus would be on that if we meet. She said she understood, she knew that is what we did with her friend. Is this the real story, it sounded feasible. She sounded sincere in wanting to get involved with any pressure and without a friendship that could be ruined.

We were with friends this past weekend. I credit her as my first, my first threesome and my first bisexual experience. She was my introduction into swinging and give her credit indirectly for me being married to my wonderful husband. She came with her current boyfriend, not the guy who she was with years ago for our threesome. I had seen her many times at parties on football weekends up at school. This is the first time in years that she has come to visit us and it was fun to talk about that first time when we shared a bed in a hotel because of a snow storm and I woke up with her nudging my legs apart and her mouth attacking me.

I would say this is a Win-Win for you. You don’t need to look for a willing couple who has never been with anyone. They already know you and made the first move. She must find you attractive and you acknowledged you know her friends. I think your secret is no longer a secret.

I got a text response but I needed more so I called her. She claims she told me about her friend when we met, something I don’t remember if she did 2 years ago. She said she had a friend who went to my gym, again I don’t remember. I asked why didn’t she and her husband play with her friend and she said she tried alone and it didn’t work out. Her friend, the one at my gym, couldn’t do it. We then got into a discussion about turning 50 and changes we go through and the pandemic and what we have been doing. I told her we keep our private life private and I hate that too many people know what we do and she apologized and said she should have reached out not knowing both me and her friend would be at the gym at the same time. She swore nobody was stalking me, she thinks her friend just built up her nerve to approach me. Then she thanked me for being so nice when we met knowing how scared she was. Alan suggested I talk to the gym friend.

Stalking is probably a bit of a leap, but caution is always a good thing. Meeting for drinks is safe enough, but I’d definite be having words with the “previous couple.”

I think if you love someone you want to see them happy, I love watching my husband suck a dick, it does it for me.

I don't trust the government either. That is why I don't take hydroxychloroquine, ingest disinfectants or have UV waves shot up my... I also will not get a hastily approved vaccine that will be waved through to help someone's election. I try to read medically accepted information that is the best that we have at the time with the understanding that it is a novel virus and information is subject to change.

With some people, you can explain it to ‘em ... but you can’t understand it for ‘em! ?

Talk about people falling for conspiracies. The whole world, almost every country has conspired because they had a secret meeting to put forth an agenda. Countries that can’t get together on anything else all figured a way to kill the economy of the world. They all said you know too many people are swinging so let’s say there is a pandemic so men keep their dicks in their pants. Oh, and let’s make sure to close schools, there are too many smart people and we need to level the field. Didn’t we hear Covid is a hoax and will go away in the heat of summer, all the greatest minds agreed. If you want to play that is your choice. Don’t downplay the risks, don’t put forth a false narrative. People played during the HIV crisis, I was too young. HIV is still not eradicated, still no cure, but there are therapies to treat. Your body, your choice. Something makes me think this your thought too, but only for men.

It's unusual for a woman to be all into a man. It's even more unusual that her husband isn't showing any interest in you. Finally, if a couple came up to us and wasn't engaging BOTH of us we would consider that rude and find another couple that was more polite. Next!

I really identify with the situation you describe. I am actually new to this community....this is the first post I have read, and I could have written most of it! My husband and I have been married almost 10 years, and have had some swinging experiences off and on. Our first experiences were with other couples, more same-room sex than anything else. It was a good way to feel out boundaries. My husband is really turned on by seeing me with others, male or female. At first I was reluctant to interact with another man, because I felt the same way that you do about it being unfair that I was not comfortable seeing him with another woman. But he basically said that he finds the experience to be a huge turn on, and even if I never felt ok with him having sex with another woman he was just fine with that. We had some threesomes with other guys, and it was amazing. I think it was a combination of things that finally made me feel ok about him having sex with another woman. The first thing was definitely that he never pressured me, and just enjoyed the experiences we had together. It sounds like you have that, which is great! Part of it was definitely just having time, not moving too quickly, sort of easing into it. When he started interacting with other women, it was small things at first, and I always knew I could stop it if it was pushing my boundaries too far. I never did have to put a stop to anything, and I think that was because we had pretty clear boundaries and expectations going into each situation. I think the next really important thing is having a level of trust with the other people you are with. Recently we got together with one of the couples that we had been with years ago. We were friends with them for a long time before we became "naked friends" and I found that that really helped my comfort level. My husband and I agreed ahead of time that while we were each free to have sex with the other couple, our primary focus would be on each other. I think every couple is different in what swinging brings to their relationship, and for us it is about an experience we have together, so this was important. The first time he was with someone else, it was fine. I still don't find it to be a huge turn on the way he does seeing me with someone else, but I don't find it upsetting either. For me, it helps to be otherwise occupied. So for example he can be kissing me while he is with her, or I can be with the other guy...there are lots of fun options when you are with another couple :-) I focus on the experience as a whole, not just on him being with someone else. My best advice for you would be not to rush anything, and don't put too much pressure on yourself. If you think it is something you want to try, take baby steps. And if you decide it isn't for you, and you guys are having fun swinging one way, then thats fine too!

I was one of those "never in a million years," until a fairly recent encounter with a couple I had known for some time. She wanted to see her husband and I do oral on each other. We did. She loved it, a lot. Turns out we did too. Partly for what it was and partly because of her enthusiastic enjoyment. I don't feel any different about me or them. It was simply another one of those very memorable things that can happen in this lifestyle.

Hubby and I are just now talking about the whole bi male experience and the more we talk and the more we see, I am totally turned on about the idea. We are looking for our first experience. Hopefully soon.

I think I relate with a lot of guys who've written... in 7th 8th grade did a lot of sex play with guys (which always involved a playboy or two). Strictly girls only until we found a couple that we swing exclusively with now. I personally don't think of myself (or the other guy) as homo sexual, but we are definitley are not homophobic either. We see each other on average once a month, always at their farm--private farm. It's always a little funny to break the ice again to get back in the swing of things. But Friday night, we'll always begin with a group activity... often a 3 on 1 massage. But the baby oil gets to flowing easily, and generally our bodies are all slick before the end of the first massage. All I can say is, we're all touching each other in every way from Friday, and we're all enjoying it enormously. And in the mix of squirmy bodies, we can all end up in some pretty interesting, intimate, and purely sexual tangles. I believe the word would be orgy... and it's really great. Now, I am not attracted to guys in any sort of sexual way, I don't dream about guys and making love with them... I am attracted to girls, and very attracted to my own beautiful wonderful amazingly sexy wife. But we do like to have sex fun...

Well personally, I've lived a hetero life for 37 years, and have been a practicing bisexual for 9 years. Strictly talking Kensey Scale, I'm split right down the middle as a "3". In practice, there's nothing I wouldn't do with an attractive man that I wouldn't also do with an attractive woman .. although spiritually, I lean toward the woman as a life mate. Hot or not? Who cares. I'm happy and that's what counts. I do run into some prejudism and ignorance in swing society tho. Some people confuse bisexuality with being gay and that irks me. They are NOT the same. In some ways, being a bisexual male is kinda like being between a rock and a hard place in today's world. I go chat to heteros and they say "you have sex with guys?!?? Eww!". I go chat with gays and they say "you have sex with women?!??" Eww!". My only consolation is that there are enough bicouples in the area that I usually can stay pretty busy and not have to think about it too much. My dream wife would be the one who accepts me for who I am. Unfortunately, all the women that do are currently married! At least that doesn't mean I can't have sex with them. God bless swingers! haha

I had similar experiences growing up. With male friends as teenagers and earlier, 'pleasuring each other'. Mainly just sucking or jerking each other off, while sneaking dad's Playboy's or whatever, no kissing, touching, penetration, or anything like that. But around 14 that stopped. Fast forward several years later. Wife and I had a pretty wild time w/a friend of ours. We had had 1 swingning experience previousely, a few years before. We were staying w/this friend while we found a new home, we stayed there for almost 2 months. After a few weeks there we were drinking and having fun one night. Well one thing led to another and we all ended up in his bedroom, and had a threesome. This continues, almost EVERY night. And it just got better, one night we were fucking for like 4hrs. Anyway after the first couple times, we all relaxed quite a bit more. I was on top of my wife, and he was lying next to her kissing her, sucking her tits, and I kept feeling his cock rubbing against my hand. So I thought he was trying to give me a hint. I started stroking him. So the next couple times we were doing this to each other. She caught on and it was turning her on. So one night one thing led to another and we went down on each other while she watched. Then we actually ended up taking it further and went all the way. She really got off on it. I would've never thought in a million years she would get turned on by that, but she did. Now fast forward again, and our marriage is in the toilet (not because of this), and I'm kinda wanting to try it again, w/another guy. But in no way could I ever imagine wanting a guy over a woman, or doing anything "affectionate" w/a guy.

Well, our two cents worth is stick to your guns. The way we approach our fun or swinging for lack of a better word, is definitely not a lifestyle, and we both agree if we aren't both on the same page we won't do it. Participating in this swinging is definitely not worth it if there's any trouble brought into your true lifestyle. Here's hoping your husband gives you the respect you deserve and allows you to make up your mind with what you want to do. If there's one negative from either of us, it's a no go.

My spouse and I have been married for 21 years, we joined LS last year.. at first I was all for it.. we would go have fun together.. I was more of the sexual pull out of the two of us and i liked the attention his and the others, but he started looking for his own attention which spread into full blown conversations and the “us” has turned into me being with others for me to look up and he is gone.. I don’t feel we are doing this together anymore and I have stopped all going and communication while my husband says they are his friends and now works for one of the couples. He now stays at their house Monday thru Friday while I stay home with our kids. Sex is not good and he said he just not have the drive with just me.. I think my marriage is over so.. I hope for you it works out