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You are entitled to your rule(s), if she wants to continue - she needs to meet you, plain and simple. If she wants to fuck your hubby she needs to own it and be able to be open about it with you. You are the gateway to his hall pass. And, once she does, as far as you and your husband are concerned - she IS in the lifestyle. And, as such, there are rules, agreements, boundaries, etc. A part of this meeting is about educating her of what is in and out of bounds, and how ethical monogamy works. Don't be shy or afraid of taking control - or you may find out she will. I am assuming you that are not interested in becoming a cuckold queen.

We do not give each other hall passes. We are “conservative “ in that regard. The red flag that I see is that the other woman has had no exposure to the lifestyle. Not that it’s rocket science, but there are protocols that are unfamiliar to the uninitiated. I think it’s a good idea for you to meet her. If she is hesitant, she may not be ready for open, lifestyle relationships. She may be looking for an old fashioned affair. We think hall passes are playing with dynamite, but others do it successfully.

Kinda along the same lines as others have said...the 'hall pass' for the husband with someone who isn't in the lifestyle, and says "I wish you weren't married" is very risky. Your husband, with 3.5 years of LS experience, has a different via of their interactions than she does (a woman who wished he wasn't married). This is a recipe for disaster. I imagine he'll love the side, one-on-one sex. She'll want more and more of him and you'll end up with a rabbit on your stove. This is why we only play together.

So, I may have opened up a can of worms, I'm not sure yet...My husband and I have dabbled in going out solo here and there but only with established partners of couples we have played with. A few months ago he was approached by a female at his work who has flirted and shown interest (customer not coworker). He mentioned right away that he is married with kids, which eventually led to the, "I wish you weren't married." After a few encounters, and sharing with me, I told him to tell her about the LS and that he has his wife's consent to go out with no expectations except to feel it out and have fun. They went out. I ended up sending him a full hall pass halfway through his date. He was completely honest with her and explained our boundaries, and how we operate as a couple and he showed her the text. They ended going back to her place and had a great night. Awesome! They both had an amazing time and I was cool with it. Now for the tricky part...because she is not in the LS and had never really known anything about it, she is extremely vanilla and weirded out about the idea of meeting me. She doesn't want to feel judged, which I totally get. I definitely don't want to do that! I just want to meet her and have an honest conversation and to talk to her openly about separation of sex and friendship. I want to get a feel as to whether it is an ok idea to endorse them going on dates (they both want another) or whether this is going to turn into her creating more of a boyfriend experience. I'm not 100% comfortable with this idea, although I can't pinpoint why. I don't feel threatened or truly jealous, but I am worried about turning jealous because she sees him every day at work and brought him cookies, if that makes sense. (*fuck my husband all you want, but bringing him cookies makes me feel weird...ha, the irony!!!) Given everything I have shared, can you folks help me figure out risk/ reward here? Have you had similar experiences or concerns? How did you deal with it? A little bit about us: We have been in the LS for 3.5 years and still learning, but have been together over 20 years and have a solid and communicative relationship. We talk about EVERYTHING! (Aside from play by plays of fun...unless asked)

Side note: when it's the man and not the woman having sex with the wife knowing about it - it's called a cuckquean (yes, quean, not queen).

While I agree with the above, you also need to remember that she isn't part of the L/S so her motives are DIFFERENT. Most people in the L/S are couples looking for a good time (either just sex and done or FWB with established couples). She is probably not looking for either of these...she's most likely looking for a relationship and knowing that she is looking towards TAKING your husband, doesn't want to meet you (easier to hurt someone you don't know). It doesn't matter what your husband has told her, I'm guessing that she is still thinking she is going to steal him away. This isn't going to work out well. At some point she's probably going to figure out that he isn't going to leave you for her and suddenly EVERYONE is going to know that he had an affair...with your approval...that you are both swingers that have sex with others. This will blow up and everyone is going to know what you both do in the bedroom. Personally, you both need to run, not walk, from this future drama.

njbm and Fitlakecouple are spot on. The only thing to add is trust your Spidey sense. It doesn't sound like you have a problem YET, but the lady does need to be brought up to speed.

Maybe I used the wrong term, trying to use terms that I misunderstood. We are not that type of people who would hurt others by not saying what are intentions are. We keep in touch with many of the people we have met over the years. I even check in to make sure nothing has hurt the relationship of those who we were the first. I am happy to give advice if asked, we just never wanted to continue physical relationships too long where we become the major go to couple. We want others to grow and not use us as the crutch. I certainly don’t want this to be another Covid post, we had decided to cut back on the people we meet. Meeting people we enjoy being with happened at the right time, not that we hadn’t met equally nice people before. Maybe because they live close, and go to the same gym made it easier to break our rule. I apologize for using the term Ghost, that is not intended and not our modus operandi.

If they are not interested in being a little bit more eloquent when contacting us, we are not going to be interested either, same for couples that don't put a little bit of effort into their profile.

A lot of nudists are prudes when it comes to sex -- or at least that's what they want others to believe.

I agree with those saying this will end bad. You've allowed him to wander outside the lifestyle, blurring the line between his fun "hall pass" and her interest in him not being married. She'll likely end up with feelings because that's what she wanted when she said "I wish you weren't married". He'll back off because he is married. She'll then respond to her hurt feelings with telling everyone you two are swingers. Hopefully you two can handle her outing you.

The fact that this happened at work and that they disclosed that they swing really sets off a flag for me. Maybe they don't care, but if she goes haywire emotionally, she has every reason to damage him professionally, and now a gun to do it with. That cat is out of the bag. It's just a risk we would have avoided. You can't know who's going to turn out to be an enthusiastic adulterer as long as everyone agrees to lie to everyone, but thinks swingers are going to hell or whatever.

Thanks everyone for helping me sort it out emotionally. I've decided to hold the rule that if she wants to go on another date with my husband, I need to meet her. He has told her as much. I'm definitely not interested in a cuckold situation. We have a loving and sexually active relationship together, our extra curriculars are just that, extra. I believe that in meeting her, I will get a feel for whether or not she can handle that dynamic. If it works out, then great, if not, flirting at work is fine and it would have to end there.

Going to agree strongly with the above that you are the gatekeeper to your husband and have a right to meet her. There is a recent incident with a submissive I work with that really cemented the importance of this in my brain. She may feel weird but you can make her comfortable. You can educate her through a good, if arm's-length, friendship, and if she isn't cut out for that, then she isn't suitable for your husband. Without applying the principles directly, it might be worthwhile to read up a little bit about dom/sub dynamics in other types of multi-partner relationships, like cuckquean and cuckolding and how power is expressed. Establishing the hierarchy of the relationships and who has the say-so in your minds might help to ease some of the confusing "how dare she bake for him" feelings, or at least clarify whether or not that's the real issue. Also going to point out that while that ship has sailed, in our relationship with a single woman locally, we made a very deliberate decision not to tell her a thing about "the lifestyle". She is entitled to assume or guess anything she wishes, but the facts are compartmentalized to her having an open invitation for FMF because she's Mrs. E's treasured friend.

We met a couple on a lifestyle cruise that had a “three and out” rule. They would have sex with other couples on up to three occasions and that is it. They were afraid of romantic attachments. I don’t know if they told other couples about their rule. It would seem fair to disclose it.

Communication is the key: Communicate, communicate and communicate all the time! Check in with your partner every single step you or he makes, review together your feelings and impressions. Later on, your desires and fantasies will open up and you guys will have tons of fun.

It is easy for us to not break any rules, because we only have one! We are in this for shared experiences only. We do not chat, sext, cam, meet or play with anyone unless we are both present. This rule will not change and we both do not want it to. When it comes to play time with others anything each of us wants to do they can! Having to worry about stepping out of line with your partner would take a lot of the in the moment fun stuff out of it and that isn’t a whole lot of fun. We each have things we do not want to do with others so we don’t. As for ghosting people we have had that happen a couple times with people we played with more then once! I can honestly say it doesn’t bother us. People move on and that is there choice. We are not poly in any way and are not looking for anything, but fwb situations. We are not looking for long term relationships. Just short term fun.

For some swingers, it's just sex and the other couple doesn't matter much, to others there needs to be a bit of a connection. We are connection people too. That's what makes it harder since there's no telling if there is a connection until you actually meet and see. It can be frustrating and it can be difficult to find, and sometimes you may find that connection only to find that they didn't feel the same. Once you do find that four way connection, it is amazing and all the time, effort, and frustration will instantly be worth it.

Really?? Without so much as a heads up? (Strains of the song Lemon tree come to mind.) That seems a bit harsh to me. I can see "We have a one month limit so lets have fun now". Just ghosting can cause stress on the other couple. I can see it if there is cause, but just because of your rules doesn't strike me as one of them. I hope that I am misreading you on this it seems out of character.

Superb reply. Also, on the subject of vaccine politics and hypocrisy, you forgot to mention the people in power today are the very same people who were guilty of fomenting distrust about the vaccine from the very start. That's right. The people who demand the firing of nurses, doctors, cops, firefighters, pilots, teachers, etc. for not being vaccinated, are the very ones who were undermining public confidence in the vaccine from the onset. Search then Sen. Harris' comments about the "Trump" vaccine. And you certainly could have pointed out the glaringly inaccurate predictions that thousands of fans attending college and professional football games, and other sporting events, were destined to be COVID-19 "super-spreader events!" In reality, there has been no meaningful spike in COVID-19 infections related to any sporting events, even where tens of thousands of unmasked people are standing shoulder-to-shoulder for hours on end. We know these statements and policies are all political in nature because, even when they fail spectacularly, we never hear or read any corrections or redactions; we never hear Fauci, or one of Biden's other lackeys, simply say, "Gee. We sure got that wrong. Maybe we've been over-reacting a bit?"

I'll take your numbers are accurate (didn't look them up). But what is missing is context. Example, if your chances of surviving Covid are 99+% because you're in the 18-40 age group and someone in the 65+ group has a 97% chance of surviving, the headline will read that the elderly are three times more likely to die from Covid (3 of 100 vs 1 of 100). So you write that deaths for the unvaccinated are 6 times more than the vaccinated...age group, other factors? And the big question that will never be answered because politics invaded Covid starting in March 2020 when the prior administration was labeled racist for saying it came from China, how many people are dying with Covid vs dying because of Covid? There is a 95, 97, 99% (whatever it is based on age group, etc) chance of survival using statistics exaggerated because of politics. We saw daily Covid death numbers throughout 2020 on every news broadcast and every newspaper but they're nowhere to be found today. Yet, more people have died "of Covid" under the current administration than the prior even with vaccines. Per a news story last week, California went from highest to lowest in Covid cases and Newsom should get all the credit. The same news source mentioned Florida showing extremely low cases but DeSantis doesn't deserve any credit. Politics have eliminated any chance of a consensus in precautions, in accurate numbers and any approach to the next pandemic. Mask, no mask, physical distance 6 feet, no wait...3 feet, no...12 feet, protest without a mask if your cause fits a certain agenda, spreads via surface contact, doesn't spread via surface contact, gator is worse, gator is better, gator is the same as a mask, cloth masks don't work unless you wear two, must wear N95, cloth masks are fine, remain at home unless you host a wedding at your house and fly to Mexico for a party, must wear a mask standing at a bar but if you sit you can take it off, wear a mask outdoors, wear a mask if you are unvaccinated, get vaccinated so you don't have to wear a mask, wear a mask even if you're vaccinated, wear a mask indoors unless you "feel the spirit" of the music, wear a mask unless you spend $500 a plate at a fancy restaurant...Huh?

We are not poly in anyway and make it a rule not to give our personal phone numbers to anyone in the lifestyle. All chatting happens together and if someone doesn’t like that they can get bent. If you are not comfortable with it then it should end! Your wife should know that is how things work in the lifestyle. If one person isn’t happy with something then it should stop. It doesn’t make you the weak link at all in our opinion. Her saying fine I will stop, but then we should just stop the lifestyle all together sounds to me like she doesn’t want to stop and will throw that out there to get her way. I would totally call that bluff myself, but the lifestyle just isn’t even close to how important my personal relationship with the missus is. If you don’t want to be poly you don’t have to be! Lots of us live this lifestyle without having that kind of connection with other people and are doing just fine.

Two of most important rules of swinging: 1) communicate, 2) move at the speed of the least comfortable person So, first you should tell your wife how you feel. Don't accuse her, or this guy, of anything. Just tell her how you feel. (In pop-psych speak they call it "I" statements.) It doesn't matter if she doesn't think there is anything more serious going on. It doesn't matter if he thinks nothing more serious is going on. It doesn't matter if nothing more serious IS going on. What matters is that you are not comfortable. Which brings us to point two - you are not comfortable. Therefore, at the very least, you - as a couple - should not play with this other couple until you are comfortable (which might be never). You may ask ask your wife to either stop messaging him or change how and when she messages him. Again, don't accuse. Just be honest and say it is making you uncomfortable. Talk to her. Listen to her and, gently, ask her to listen to you. Honesty, trust and communication.

Fortunately, you do have the good ones. Be upfront and tell potential partners that you are weird in this way, that it doesn't always work, it's you. If it were me hearing that, I would take it as a challenge and try to do it right by you and please. Part of the fun of swinging is addressing the individual quirks we all have.

Hot - they are pretty up tight about sexual activity where we go but things still happen. On weekends large groups form and will create a space where people can play.

We are swinger/nudist outliers as well. Fortunately the beach we frequent has a wonderful representation of all types. The trick is to read them well if you want to "go there." Last weekend I couldn't take my eyes off of an amazing looking man that was there with another couple. After some innocent talk I began to hint that we were both swingers. As he seemed comfortable with the conversation I "went there.". I told him he had a beautiful big penis and asked him if I could see it nice and hard out in the parking lot. We all left together and ended up in our room. Being naked around a hundred other people is a sexual experience for me and many other I expect. I'm not going to lie about it or hide behind it. I love watching guys look at me, I like seeing their naked bodies and I love the feeling of being naked outside. Not sure what that makes me...

I suppose my impressions of the nudist resort and all that happened were grievously wrong. Nudist resort members have pure minds and view other members as wholesome minded regardless of their physical attractiveness. It's like the Garden of Eden, where both genders romp around enjoying the natural beauty that surrounds them without distortion. Where males view female athletic and mental ability over all else, and females would never eye a male below the belt to consider what he has to offer. Where all conduct themselves with a modest outlook and as equals since their status in life is not on display. How absolutely lovely it is. Swingers who dare visit and associate with these pure minded folk, would never consider polluting the minds of such a fine assembly. When visiting such a resort, they safe-guard their personal lifestyle so as to not divulge their personal interests. Although they may allow their eyes to evaluate the physical characteristics of another member, bridging the moral barrier simply wouldn't enter their minds. Said another way, what I thought I saw and experienced on my first trip to a nudist resort was simply a mind fuck - a fantasy of demented proportion that is offensive to nudists and swingers alike. Even voicing such a distorted view of the mingling of these two lifestyles has set me aside as a freak of nature, What more can one expect from someone raised of the other side of the tracks?

We started as nudists, much later became swingers. While there is a big overlap of the two interests, there are many nudists shocked by swinging and swingers who do not want to walk around naked. We have a parlor game in which we try to guess who the Swingers are at nudist resorts.

We went to hedonism and decided to take the plunge. We watched lots of open sex, tried it ourselves and ended up playing with other couples.

I have an IUD, hubby has had a vascetomy and we use condoms.