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My public service announcement which I’ve made before: if you are under 45 years old, get vaccinated for HPV. One less thing to worry about. We are too old for it.

I was right there with you until the sentence above. This is not true. As I wrote in a different thread, cheating is not a victimless pursuit. That's why it is called cheating. There are other human being(s) harmed, knowingly or unknowingly, and his/her feelings matter, too. The OP admits this behavior is not consistent with his moral compass. For this reason, he should discuss this immediately with his girlfriend and explain they need to tighten down the rules of the game. Playing solo does not equate to having illicit affairs with people in other relationships. Lastly, it appears to me there is quite a bit more to the story. A romp in the sack here and there is one thing. But spending an entire day together once every week? That doesn't pass the sniff test. There's more happening between these two than simply sex.

Our first MFM will always be special in our couple memory. Not only because it's been a very erotic evening, intense, full of pleasure, but also because... well... a first is a first! We will probably tell that story soon in a post, but first we would like to read from your first MFM. How did it happen? What brought you 3 together? Was it planned? What happened? Make us dream... tell us everything about that special night... 😘😘

I apologize if it has seemed that I was pushing too hard on some of this topic. I was really very interested in others thoughts. There are times when I suspect that I have too much belief in my own logic, and bouncing things around with others is a good check. These are all questions that we have asked ourselves about this subject. I find it reassuring that the responses thus far mostly run parallel to our own answers and concerns. The one point that I hadn't thought about, which lit a lightbulb, was EastInWest's comment "but the truth is that we are probably less active in terms of partners than many vanilla singles.". That observation probably holds true for many of us.

The use of condoms is always a relevant topic in the lifestyle. As was pointed out earlier, there is no such thing as having safe sex in the lifestyle. Swinging is, by definition, a risky behavior. However, that risk can be mitigated. How? Unfortunately, we believe many people start this discussion with asking the wrong question. Here's the way we approached it: What steps can we take to mitigate the potential of being exposed, or exposing someone else, to an STD/STI or similar disease? We *strongly* suggest discussing this with your respective doctor prior to engaging in any lifestyle activity. We did and it was eye-opening. And we continue to discuss it, every year, during our annual check-ups. What level of risk are we reasonably willing to accept? If one is not willing to accept at least some level of risk, they should not engage in the lifestyle. What steps are we reasonably willing to take to mitigate the risks? We arrived at the conclusion that the best course of action for us is to use a layered approach as follows: Group? Closed. Number of partners? Small. History of highly risky behavior (i.e., use of illicit drugs, sex with prostitutes, bisexual males, anonymous sex, etc.) among the partners? None reported* Regular testing? Without exception. Condoms? Every time, with the exception of sex between spouses or their partners/significant others. We realize not everyone is willing to take all of these steps. However, this approach works for us and is no big deal. It's easy to dismiss risks when you're 30 years-old, your dick is harder than quantum physics, and your life seems like it will go on forever. In time, your perspective changes. Frankly, as we have grown older and our own mortality and the general frailty of human life becomes more obvious, caring for our own health and the health of our those in our circle of partners, has never been more important. *It's an Honor System. No way to be certain if someone is telling the truth, lying, or simply does not remember that long ago Saturday night with the two strippers in Tijuana.

Yep covid vaccine and hpv vaccine are our conditions for future partners. Which surely cuts the number of potential partners. However as we are mostly looking for single males these days there's still far more out there interested than there is time to simply message them much less hook up with all of them. 😆 Those conditions + a recent STI test and we're good to go bareback. The completely random hookup scenario where a flavored condom or a dental dam may be called for with oral is likely just a scenario we wouldn't engage in(anymore).

I do have performance difficulties with condoms. Viagra and Trojan Double Ecstasy (lubed inside and outside) greatly help. But I feel the pain of men whose performance is impaired by condoms. But one doesn’t want warts and/or sores on one’s pecker.

The medical risks I understand. I have seen others HIV that take into account the state of oral health with blood to blood as far as receiving the virus, but that is nit picking for the purpose of this discussion. I'd like to focus on the quoted text. A persons lifestyle and habits are important but without a comprehensive history they are only a snap shot. Who I am today is not who I was living in a commune in the 60's. I am wondering how many of us ask for recent STI checkups. If so how often. How often is reasonable? For us , one or the other of us at 6 month intervals, with a fairly low turnover in partners.

All of this is true. Yet it's also a difference of degree. The CDC rates the risk of HIV transmission by oral sex, on a scale of "per 10,000 exposures", as simply "low" - too low to measure. While there is absolutely a theoretical mode of transmission, the risk is also often described as a statistical zero, because researchers are frequently unable to find an actual case in their data to count. As njbm notes, condoms are much less effective for certain other incurable (though treatable) STDs. I have seen less research on herpes infection that attempts to measure risk by sex act, possibly because herpes is so prevalent that it's very difficult to trace transmission to specific encounters. It's also infectious enough that the risk of transmission from an asymptomatic person may only be half that of a symptomatic person, and condom use may only reduce the risk of transmission from an asymptomatic person by about half of that. We're not talking about 99.9% effectiveness, here. That doesn't mean throw caution to the wind, just that if you're going to work your way through a significant number of partners over time, exposure is probably unavoidable to the point that it's a genuinely questionable fun-vs-safety tradeoff. Mrs. E is one of the most meticulously clean people I've ever met, yet her take on it was that she'd never sucked on a condom before and wasn't going to start. If there's any doubt at all about a person's lifestyle and practices, or anything unusual at all like a skin ulcer, that they seem potentially high-risk, we're simply not including those people in play, condoms or not.

There are tons of guys who have issues performing with a condom for various reasons, sensation , a break in concentration. Both can be dealt with. Picking a different brand, incorporating suiting up into the sex play by having the lady do the honors etc. For these guys it is not just another indifferent factor. Just doing a cost vs benefit thing here.

Why a bummer? We all know that there are risks involved, health wise both physical and psychological, to our relationships, if we misjudge, to our finances if our work lives get compromised. We have all made adjustments to our actions to lessen the likelihood of repercussions. We have all the proceeded with whatever we consider acceptable risk scenarios. This is not that much different than casually driving on the freeway, but not on New Years Eve. The specific condom question is driven by wondering if that, once I have accepted driving my face into a ladies vagina, how much good does a condom do later on? The open area of my penis is far less than my eyes. They are exposed to exactly the same fluids. I am all in favor of effective means of prevention. Playing with people whose status is recently verified for instance, or a closed group. Replacing real precautions with theater does not make sense. Distinguishing just exactly was IS theater is a problem.

You are not wrong. But, it's a gesture toward 'safety'. And, some like the psychological separation it creates. Lots of things we do makes zero sense. Stand in line 6 feet apart waiting in TSA - then - cram yourself into an aircraft where 9 people are within arms reach... Yet we do it none the less / go along to get along.

Maybe I’m the only one who felt I cheated in front of my wife. I had her blessing and assurance it wasn’t cheating, yet life and upbringing gave me doubts on the correctness of sex with another woman. I think most people have cheated in other aspects of their life and some even cheer on people who lie on taxes, business or finding ways to get more and never think it’s cheating the way being untrue in sex.

What was she thinking the first time she had sex with another woman? I am guessing she was thinking yes this is finally happening, because it is something she wanted to do for most of her life! I was thinking I am really happy for her to get to experience her full sexuality with no guilt or remorse. I have seen her with women many times now and can honestly say it isn’t a big deal to me as it was not my fantasy in the first place. I mean it is always great seeing her having sex with other people, but I actually enjoy seeing her have sex with other men more.

Baseball 🤣

Kinda my thought on all the above. If this were a man from one of the couples we have swapped with or a guy that has been in the lifestyle I think I would feel differently. Thanks for the comments. Have to find the proper approach to address the situation.

Swingers have to play with swingers, not cheaters. The lifestyle has a code of ethics. Cheating is based on duplicity and lying. Swinging is based on truth and disclosure. Swinging separately requires a higher level of trust. It’s not going to work with cheaters. They are different approaches. That is why you feel uncomfortable. Your wife is involved in an extramarital affair, not a true swinging experience. That’s my take, others may disagree or find this arrangement a turn on. But only your feelings and those of your wife matter.

We're both to see the other guy cum inside my wife since I love to enter her creampie pussy while she always prefers bareback without condom since she she hates rubbers.But under one must condition if the guy can prove clear.

I Googled bisexual as being attracted to both sexes or not having an affinity to one sex over the other. I never thought of myself as a bisexual as never having been attracted to another woman. I don’t remember what flicked my curiosity of what it would be like to touch another vagina. I asked Rocky if vaginas are all different or closely similar, knowing full well vaginas are as different as a nose or a penis. Long story brought us to swinging and me seeing a vagina up close, touching and eventually having oral sex. Swinging and bisexuality was extremely more difficult versus my first sexual experiences. What both had in common was it was me that wanted it. Bill let Debbie talk it out, don’t push. I needed to work it out in my mind that the only thing holding me from trying something new was what others would think, people don’t do that. Why should I care, it’s my thoughts my body. I wanted affirmation from only one person, the person I could hurt if I had sex with someone. The first time is the most difficult part, no pain is involved. My curiosity has opened my thinking and our pleasures. It has also brought us closer to a long time friend who took her curiosity forward because of me. Even though my first was not my friend and I wasn’t hers, we now enjoy our great friendship even more. We already have so much in common, now we enjoying in new ways.

We've kind of wondered how we'd address this if it ever really came up. Mrs. E enjoys women's bodies, possibly enjoys breasts as much as I do. Yet she just likes some playful kissing and touching, sex acts are a bit much for her. No idea how you really categorize that. "Bi-Curious, But Not That Curious"

For the longest time Ms. Gold would say that she was 'bi-friendly' meaning that she didn't mind touching, kissing, etc. the other woman, but has always said that she isn't bi since she isn't interested in having a romantic relationship with a woman other than playing. Out of simplicity, we list her as bi on our profile because she doesn't mind (in fact, she enjoys) playing with the other woman but if the other woman isn't interested in playing, she (we) are fine with that as well. Playing isn't a requirement.

You are doing everything a newbie should do by talking before and after as well as giving much thought together before agreeing to going forward. The problem with any sexual adventure as you called it, is there is no going back, you will always have that history and memory. Talking out things afterwards corrects any mistakes you feel were made. Our contacts usually begin where your wife feels your first went. All of the women know there will be touching and more between the women, no surprises as I always prepare the woman before I go forward and wait for a signal that says she is ready. I love that the wife kissed her husband and your wife after, it shows she approved and everything is good. When I see couples give this after kiss I smile knowing there are no bad feelings. Girl play seems to becoming a normal part of swinging but I can’t be the one to say how common. Our swinging was started with girl play being the focus. We only meet people who think they want to explore that pleasure. It is not always a successful thought, too many times the man is urging the girl play, not the woman looking to explore her on sexuality. Tell your wife to consider what it will be, don’t push. It already sounds she is curious if she is talking about it and not shutting down the thought. It sounds you are far enough away from your friends that you can’t just hop in the car for a quick play date. It’s giving you time to think and talk and you stated the talk is fun. Just a thought, they are friends, you know them as people not only as sexual partners, speak to them about your thoughts and your fears. If your wife can speak freely with her friend it might give her more to think about. Let your adventure continue.

Thinking about it, I achieved having sex with more women after marrying Daniela than before, 12. But she is unlikely to exceed her number, around 60, because we now play within a closed group. As my wife has pointed out, however, I had a lot more sex than she did, albeit with with only one woman, my ex-wife. We had sex just about every day, and sometimes even during and after our divorce. Although Daniela's number was five times mine, she didn't live with anyone so she had sex only two or three times a week. Since we got married and especially since we started in the lifestyle, she's been making up for lost time. Ten times a week maybe, five with me (I'm older now) and five with one of her play partners. And to think that when we got married Daniela said that she was ready for monogamy after living a life of overlapping lovers. She didn't need much convincing to go back. I'll need to do some calculations to determine when her total number of intercourse exceeds mine.

I started my husband with my fingers and he soon graduated to a strap on and he loved it. He says if I had real cock I would fuck 5 times a day! I agree. Next we had a threesome with a guy and I sucked them and rubbed their cocks together and he sucked the other guy with me and we swallowed his load! The next time with him he fucked my hubby and I sucked him as our stud came in his ass he had an orgasm. Now he can’t get enough cock and it so turns me on!

My wife got to see it, she says she LOVED it. It just kinda happened. Certainly wasn't planned, I didn't know he was bi and he didn't know that I was bi-curious. But when he asked me to do a DVP with him and his wife, I just had to ask him if he was bi? They both answered in the affirmative and my wife and I just looked at each other. Well from there his wife got off off him and joined my wife over in the jacuzzi bubbles and played with each other while he and I played on the bed. The next morning I got to eat his cum out of his wife's pussy. We are going to be seeing them again this coming weekend at the same club we met them at last time. It was really hot and I am sure we will do it again and probably go beyond oral, but the next time I am hoping we get to put a little more emphasis on the ladies and our play will be strictly for their entertainment.

What a hot thread. Glad it resurfaced. For me the best bi sex is mmf or mmff, a woman & I pleasuring a cock together. Some wives like to watch, others prefer to get down with me on their husbands cock dropping hints or showing me how he likes it. Some times her & I will be fucking and take the husbands cock together. Having a couple share my cock as they fuck is both red hot pornographic and draws me into a another level of intimacy.

While being straight but always trying to fulfill each other's fantasy my wife reminded me what she did for me. While talking she seemed extremely excited about the idea of me and another guy. So I indulged her finally. I must say I was extremely nervous but here we go. After a great blow job and seeing the arousal in my wife's face I began sucking him off and moved to giving up my anal virginity while eating my wife. She got off so many times, as did I. It was rather exciting to service her while being serviced. I will say it was an experience to remember. Look forward to our next session.

I do not participate in Gang Bangs, nor is it a fantasy of my Mr.'s but I can empathize with your wife. I think a Gang Bang is a different kind of swinging. To me it is more of a fetish, and although your wife may appear to be disrespected during the bang, she is probably getting a lot more out of it then she will ever tell you. Although these men are ravaging her, she is the ultimate center of attention. And she has the ability to be very, very naughty in the process. She is getting a different kind of respect from these me. It is not societal respect, it is respect from the standpoint that everyman wants her, and everyman there wants to play with her, and every man can play with her. I think she is actually in the position of power more than anyone else there. I would imagine that can be intoxicating. Now that you know why she wants to do it..... you need to figure out why you don't want her to do it. I read your post a few times, and the only thing I can figure out is that you are uncomfortable with it because it is not your fantasy anymore, and your wife hasn't met your comfort level by helping establish rules for the bang. I still think that there is more to it than that. What exactly makes you uncomfortable? What exact activities during the bang would you like for her to avoid? Are you having any jealousy issues with the other men because she is becoming more open to other acts? (Like Blow jobs and Anal Sex) Do you have a hard time respecting her because she is acting, in your opinion, slutty? Are you feeling left out? Now in our relationship, if Mr Indy asked me not to do something I would stop immediately and be with him. We have a good set of rules for almost any circumstance, and we are both very comfortable with them. To a certain degree I can understand where your wife is coming from. It sounds like from what you have written so far, that you guys had some rather liberal rules to begin with, and since you have been in the lifestyle for more than a decade, I think that is reasonable. But now, it seems to me you want to make changes to the rules, that maybe didn't exist before, or without reason. I am not advocating that there has to be a reason for every rule change, but I do think that since this is such an important issue to you, and clearly an ongoing issue between you two, you need to have reasons. If I were your wife and truly enjoyed something, and you allowed me to do it for a period of time, and then all of a sudden didn't want me to do it, or wanted me to restrict it, I would be confused and frustrated, and would probably behave much like your wife is doing. To me it is unreasonable for you to impose rules this far into the game without valid reasons. So again, my advice to you, is for you to determine what it is exactly that you do not like about her GB and to articulate that in a compassionate way to your wife. You then must sit without judgement and listen to her explain what exactly she likes from the GB. Hopefully when the 2 of you compare notes, you will be able to reach a compromise that serves both of your needs. At this point you are in a stalemate, and neither one of you are going to get any farther along without good, honest communication without judgement or hesitation.

Well this post is a bummer.