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I wish my penis was smaller.

I've been researching a club called SkirtClub for the last two years. I discovered it just before the pandemic then the world shut down, bummer for everyone, but especially for the sexually adventurous like us. As a bisexual woman it is so difficult to meet like minded women. Lesbians think we are confused and straight women think we are gross. It is difficult to meet women that are truly bisexual. I've met women that are just fulfilling a husband's fantasy or a boyfriends fantasy. Going to the sex clubs invites male energy which is often very aggressive, I cannot tell you how many times I've entered a club and had men just swat my butt, or grab me without so much as a hello, it makes me feel like I'm in a meat market and I'm just under inspection, to the men I'm not a fan. Getting one on one play time with another woman is difficult. Thus enters skirtclub. I finally attended an event recently, and it was divine. It is a women's only club for the bisexual and bicurious. They host events world wide, there are small events called mini skirts which are cocktail mixers where we can meet othe bisexual and bicurious women. Then there are their play parties. These events are women only, there is some educational speaker at the beginning and then a burlesque style performance to create the mood. Some sexy games like spin the bottle and tequilla body shots. The events are held in very posh locations, penthouses and mansions. There are women of all walks of life present, different looks and body styles, wearing sexy clothes and in some cases lingerie, i even saw a gorgeous creature high stepping in nothing but heels, I was so jealous of her confidence. Once the games start women start venturing to the bedrooms and it is so incredible. I walked in one bedroom and saw probably 12 women in a writhing mass on a bed. It is incredibly erotic and intense. I did pare up with a beautiful woman and had an incredible night on one of those female adorned beds. If you are a woman like me please check out skirt club it is truly magical. The website is Skirtclub.co.uk

Sex is supposed to be messy. There is nothing like an extremely turned on woman sitting on my face. That wetness. That warmth. Oh my goodness. Just awesome. If she's filled, even better.

I love them. I love the feeling when a guy is cumming in me

I think a lot of these replies are attempting to answer a question you didn't ask and/or trying to persuade you to keep pushing the cart down this path. Here are some different points to consider: Having sex with someone outside of marriage has ruined far more relationships than it has enhanced. That is simple fact. In most relationships, the fantasy of having sex with someone other than your spouse should stay exactly that--a fantasy. Despite the impression you may find on this sight, it is a rare couple that is secure enough with themselves, their spouses, and their relationship, to allow repeated sexual contact with people outside of their marriage and still keep their marriage intact. And, just like in the vanilla community, the incidence of divorce among swinging couples is quite high. Should you and your wife decide to continue along this pathway, I suggest in the strongest terms you agree on your boundaries and stick to them. Respectfully, you two made a massive error in judgement: There is a world of difference between having sex in the same room as another couple (a harmless form of both exhibitionism and voyeurism) versus having sex with the other couple. As a couple, you were simply not ready for it. And you may never be. And that's perfectly okay. You're no less of a couple for it. As far as helping your wife get through it? You said she was "really hurting" and "grieving"... those are interesting word choices. In normal language, we usually reserve "grieving" to describe deeply intense emotional loss. I'd be quite concerned for her emotional wellbeing if I was in your shoes. The best thing you can do is communicate, communicate, communicate. Tell her you love her. Show her you love her (acts of service.) Make love to her. If she can't shake these intense feelings within the next week or so, pick up the phone and schedule some time with a therapist. If she's not able to reset on her own, she will need some professional assistance. Ann and I wish you and your wife the best. Let us know how she's doing in a week or so.

There is lots of info available online about Hedonism 2, or Hedo as many call it. You can also find answers to many questions on the Facebook group, Our Favorite Jamaican Vacation Place. You can find the groups that are going during various weeks by going to hedonism.com and selecting groups and entertainment, then group events. Then, go to the individual group websites and find a week that you want to go and a group that you like. Some are more nudists, some more swingers, some younger, some older, etc. You may save some money going with a group, you will have automatic friends and often get bling from them, hats, t-shirts, mugs, etc. We love Hedo. Trip # 22 coming up. They say, once you go, you know. It is hard to describe all the reasons we love it there, but the best part is the people you meet, from all over and all walks of life. You can do what you what there, sit on the clothing optional beach in your swimming suit reading a book, or get naked, head to the nude beach or pool, and party like a rock star. The staff there is wonderful, the food is good, the entertainment is excellent, you can relax, scuba, kayak, dance, go to a playroom, get a massage on the beach, check out Hedo Weedo, do your own thing. If you have the right attitude, you will have the best vacation of your life, and make friends with a bunch of awesome people. Good luck!

Hi, this is Petra. I am some one's wife and wouldn't mind if someone watched me masturbate, but I rare do and no one has ever watched me. I only pleasure myself when no one in our family or our boyfriend is nearby, like when I'm traveling. Otherwise, I much prefer engaging in sex with another person.

You could go to a hotel party with low expectations and have a fun, party time. Most hotel parties we went to were glorified pajama parties. The women strutted around in negligees, the men over drank and conked out and nothing happened. You may be surprised and meet another couple where the husband wants to play and the other wife wants to watch.

Just because someone is better at ONE THING, nothing else matters...I don't think so. Any time we find something that someone else is better at, we ask the other to teach us how they did it so we can get better and do it again.

Sex is just sex, no matter how mind blowing, earth shattering it may be. I'm with the one I'm with because of the total package. It's like going to a great restaurant and deciding that I'm leaving my SO for the cook just because they are better at cooking...

I know this thread is old, but I just wanted to add a couple of things. I never thought of sex as being a "score". If it's great, it's great. If it's not, it's not. There's no objective measure of how 'good' it is. It's entirely subjective. I can have great sex with my wife. I can have great sex with another woman. I am not going to compare the two. How I respond to one woman is different than how I respond to my wife. It's not fair to compare, for anyone. I don't think I want to be in the position of telling my lovers "Sorry honey, but you'll never be as good as my wife" or something like that. In swinging we make comparisons to flavors of ice cream. If you like blackberry, cookie dough, fudge brickle, and mint ice cream...are you really going to compare them on some objective scale? They're all good. I'm not into swinging to replace my wife, nor she me. We're in it to have fun. We have fun with our lovers. That's the point. If someone is feeling insecure, they should say so of course. Communication is key.

Remember it's just fun and sex. Not love. Relax and enjoy, you'll be fine.

"I said the sex that time was just great. I never thought of it as better. I just thought of it as great" Now, that's the way to feel about he LifeStyle! Congratulations on opening up to each other. You'll be fantastic in this hobby.

I think for this to work, honesty really is the best policy! I've been in a similar situation, and lucky for me, I was able to answer the question honestly! "Baby, sex with you is on a whole nother level!" I really hate lying, so if we ended up being with someone that I did enjoy more than her, that would be a problem! But I really don't ever see that happening because we both understand that emotionally we love each other more than anything, so that puts a passion into our sex life that can't be matched by random swinging! As far as sex goes, we both think it would be ridiculous to only have sex with 1 person for the rest of our lives. I mean, as great as the sex is, that would still suck! I love a good Rib Eye, but if you told me that's all I could eat for the rest of my life, it would get old really quick! So keep your entree hot at all times, but pairing them with lots of yummy sides!

He's not better. Just different. And I enjoy you and him in different ways. You are both unique and special to me. I love you. He's something we do for fun.

I don't care if a guy is more handsome, more well hung, or better in bed than me. I'm the one she loves and I'm the one she's coming home to every night.

I have learned that I am not the best at anything. I was not the best basketball player, not the best baseball player, not the best golfer, not the best dancer, and I am not the best looking man in the world. I learned many years ago I was not the most hung guy, that one was a tough one for me. We are all given traits and we have to play the cards we are dealt with. To me my wife is beautiful but I never pictured her as a model for Sports Illustrated. I have always been driven to small breasted women though I enjoy a great pair. Some think a big butt is heaven, I don't. We are all a package and your husband married you for who you are and I am sure you married him for all his attributes not just one. I know I have been jealous about the friend who can make a shot from anywhere on the court or my other friend who has a 5 handicap on the golf course. I am still happy when I break 90. I always figured my wife was happy with my average sized penis and the sex we have. I was surely apprehensive the first time she was with someone else in front of me and more so when I saw his size. Pleasure just like pain is a fleeting moment. We know we had a painful toothache and then the pain goes away. Your wife had a great sex moment, now it is a memory just like the great concert you may have gone to. She enjoyed Bruno Mars but she isn't comparing your singing to his. I once told my wife that a woman we were playing with gave me the best blowjob I ever had. Boy did I want to take that back. Instead we discussed what our partner did that make me think it was great. It goes back to communication and the enjoyment of seeing our partner pleased. Don't lie, tell him that the sex was great. Then tell him why you picked him to be the one you want to have sex with every day and why you love him. As others have said, sex is an act, love is so much more.

I just went back and read your post when you first posted about him making love to you. We all enjoy being loved and I get what you say that he made love to you. He made you feel good not just physically but emotionally. When swinging most of us look for a physical release. I don't think we want emotional attachments. More we like to feel we aren't being used. Most men are looking for the physical act even if the act is to please you. There is nothing wrong with feeling that you weren't used. You had an enjoyable experience. If you go to a restaurant and enjoy a meal you may want to go back. If you go back once or twice a year it remains special. If you went every week you would still enjoy but it no longer would be special. I am reading that you and your husband still love each other. Your sex every day is still good but not extra special. You may have to make it more romantic yourself. Make a night or weekend special. You haven't said if you and your husband talk about your nights with the other couple. You should be open in what you enjoyed and your feelings. It is okay to enjoy as long as others have said, it doesn't effect your real relationship.

Having a connection with your play partner only makes it better...more exciting. Just as long as that connection doesn't interfere with your relationship with your actual partner. As long as the two things can be kept separate, everything's good (great, in fact). Machiavel55:

To be honest, I do think this shows that you may have an issue to work through, in order for you to be comfortable enjoying the lifestyle. It seems to me to be inherently unfair to discourage your husband from enjoying the activity that you are both engaging in. He is married to you, after all, and when you two are done with a hot play session, he comes home with you! I agree with others who recommend a little analysis of your feelings on this. Without knowing more about what he has said, it's not entirely clear which direction your concerns may be taking- whether this is a case of 1) concern that he finds this other woman more attractive or sexy than he finds you, or 2) a concern that he is developing romantic feelings for this woman. If it's more the former, then perhaps the root lies in a measure of insecurity about your attractiveness? This is, by the way, completely understandable! My wife (and I, to be honest) entered the lifestyle with some skepticism about whether other couples would find us attractive. The Mrs. has been pleasantly surprised to find that others find her hot, and now she's finally starting to believe what I've been telling her! If your concern is more the latter (that he may be developing romantic feelings), then I think it is more a matter of trust between you and your husband. A basic premise of swinging is that you both are able to separate the "friends with benefits" relationship among swingers, from the kind of relationship that involves romantic feelings. If you and your husband have discussed this question, and he has assured you that has reaction is nothing more than "swinger lust", then it remains to examine whether you trust that assurance enough to be comfortable. And by the way, the fact that he is willing to step away from swinging altogether sounds like a great sign- that he finds you to be the most important thing in this issue! On the occasions when you two have played with another couple, have you been in the same room, or in different rooms? If you've ever played in the same room with your husband, what are your feelings when you see and hear him giving and receiving pleasure with another woman? Does the green monster of jealousy rear its head in this scenario? I hope you two can come to an accommodation on issues like this. It doesn't seem quite right to ask your husband to suppress his excitement, just as it wouldn't seem right for you to feel like you had to suppress your excitement if you found a possible play partner who you found hot! Whether you continue in the lifestyle, take a step back, or turn away completely, I hope you two are happy with whatever you decide.

This past weekend my wife crawled on top of a guy we'd met for dinner that night. I lay beside them in bed watching her ride him really hard. Due to a recent injury, I couldn't get up on my hands and knees, bend her over onto him and enjoy a DP. But I could watch her eyes as she brought him to life. He bellowed "I'm going to cum!" and then it was all moans and groans. As soon as he was done spurting she put her hand to her pussy to hold in his cum and moved over me, lowering her pussy onto my face. There is something so purely and powerfully sexual having the results of dual orgasms, new man and wife, filling your mouth. Sexual, erotic, spiritual, intimate, tasty, better than any drug I've tried. In that way, despite my injury, I was as much a part of the fucking as the fuckers. Maybe even more.

I love my husband. I don't love my friends I have sex with. I do cuddle, kiss, fuck etc, everyone essentially in the same manner. There was a man I was very fond of and considered a boyfriend, and currently a girl I am very fond of and consider a girlfriend. I still don't love them the way I love my husband. I have a commitment, a family and a life with my husband.

I love eating the cream pie out of Mrs MJ: both my own, and his -- especially after we have played with another couple and he has cum inside her. Seconds is great because his cum makes her so wet and slippery inside.... The hottest cream pie we've done, so far, was after a MMMMF, where the other three guys came in her. Not only did they each leave a cream pie in her, but they had me lick and suck their cocks clean after they had fucked her. I loved the sweet taste of her pussy juices and their cum on their cocks. Being fourth in line to put my cock in her was really hot, with my cock sliding in and out of her cum-filled pussy. After we got home, we fucked again, I came in her, and then cleaned her up; it was a real taste treat! And she really enjoyed having four different cocks cum in her so much that she wants to try even more.....

I have encountered people who have certain techniques or assets better than my hubby's, and I tell him that. He's encountered women with the same, and he's told me. But overall, I wouldn't say I've ever encountered a better lover than he. There is something about that emotional connection, it's just more satisfying with him.

We both revel in watching the pleasure our partner is having, what a wonderful gift to be able to bestow to the person you love!!! Neither of us can quite comprehend anyone not wanting their partner to have the ultimate in sensual/sexual experience and pleasure!!! The "lifestyle" has only strengthened the bond we have, adding to the respect, trust and security in our relationship. Jealousy and insecurity are wasted emotions that have no place in a healthy relationship, let alone the lifestyle. Separating sex from love and good communication go a long way towards banishing those fears!

So me and my husband have had conversations about possibly swinging over the last year. I tend to ask many questions that I get a little confused and sometimes a little hurt over the answers. To help you understand us better. We have been married for 9 years and together 10. All of those years monogamous. The crazy thing for me is that I absolutely have no concerns of my husband falling in love with anybody else or leaving me for another because of this. I have of course wondered how it may be for him coming back to me if he happens to find a lady that is "tighter" than I am. Will she feel better, etc. And yes I do understand that men have similar concerns when it comes to other men who may be bigger than them. And everybody says of course that what makes the sex better with your SO is the fact that you love them and the emotion involved. I wanna know that feelings aside I rock his world like no other. When this came up in our conversations he has pretty much told me that all the women he has been with felt pretty much the same to him. He had been with one girl he could call tight he supposed and in the end and didn't get to finish with her because it was painful for him. He says that one don't really feel any different than the other to him and that he thinks it's because he don't have a big penis. And his penis isn't small it's average. I've done my research on that. LOL What I get off him is that basically that when it comes down to it, sexually I will feel no different than anybody else that the intimacy will really be the only difference. I am not knocking intimacy. It does make things special. Am I weird for wanting to feel like nobody can rock his world like I can? That when he comes back to me I want him to say to himself. Damn what was that girl's name? LOL Get me?

Are there times when my wife's playmates do something better than me, or as Julie put it, "different in a good way"? Absolutely, and I hope there always is. I want her to have a great time every time we get to play. Sometimes it is just the "new partner experience" that makes it good, sometimes it is technique, sometimes it is physical. There are times the same is true of my playmates. And, after the fact, we talk about those things that made the experience good as well. That has been a good thing because we have both become better at pleasing the other. Things we have experienced with someone else, we share and try in our bedroom. That has been one of the unexpected benefits to swinging for us, we continue to learn to please each other more all the time. AS far as physical traits go I think you have already covered that. Different physical traits can make a difference in the amount of pleasure. Women that are too tight may not be as pleasing to one man as to another. I am average in length but fairly thick, as a result there are things that my wife does not enjoy as much with me as with someone not as thick, it is just not as "comfortable" or easy for her. There are also things she enjoys more with me. . I don't get upset about that, because it's an opportunity for her to enjoy things that may be difficult with me. I love it. I think this requires a certain amount of security in a relationship. I know if someone else "rocks her world" that means nothing more than she had a great time. She is still coming home with me and we will still be together because our relationship is so much more. No matter how good you are at something there is always going to be someone better at certain aspects. (I'll use a football analogy because I like them ) Take Jerry Rice, the greatest WR in NFL history. There were and are WR's that run better routes, have more speed, have better hands etc. But none put them all together as well as Jerry Rice. I'm her Jerry Rice and she is mine But in the end, with all the newness, techniques and physical traits aside, no one makes me feel like she does and the same is true for her. There is so much more to love (and even sex with your partner) than just sex, if that makes sense. So enjoy the sex for what it is and remember that even if someone rocks his world, he is yours and loves you.

I think we all want to feel like we are the best sex our partner has had... the funny thing is if you think about it you want to feel that way with everyone you have sex with whether it's your partner or not. You want your hubby to feel you are the best, but if/ when you are having sex with someone else chances are you will want them to feel like you really rocked their world too. You just gotta remember there's a big difference between sex and love. Just because someone rocks your world sexually doesn't mean you love them... it might make you lust them tho

This is hot. I think lots of guys do this when they can. With safe sex, etc I'm sure its a concern but when you can- damn right! I hated a football player in college. I cheated on him with another player. I never seen a cock so big, call me hungry! lol anyhow, I came home one night after fucking my secret lover. My BF would not leave me a lone. The moment I walked into the apt he followed me. Something in me snapped.... I decided to let him have it. I threw him on the floor, straddled his face and let him lick my freshly fucked pussy. It excited me so much I did it again and again. I laughed when he said "You must really be excited. You taste different." lol Josephine

Yeah, I get you. And I'm lucky in that my hubby says that I do rock his world better than anyone else. And truth be told, the same is true for me with him. We've been together almost 18 years now, and pretty much grew up together, sexually speaking. So we know each other's hot buttons. BUT there are little things here and there that we've each found that a playmate does "better" or just "different in a good way" than what we do for each other. And it's all good. Really, it just comes down to different flavors of ice cream. And I like the Sweet flavor best, hands down. So try not to focus on his comments, because him loving you and enjoying the emotional connection is what matters most. =)

Better lover or better sexual experience? Two different things in my mind. I only have one lover and no one is better than her. Lover, in my mind, includes heart, mind and soul as well as the body. Being a lover is her domain alone. Sexual experiences? Yes, we have both had someone that did something better than we had done for each other. Usually it is something specific, like a technique or position. Yes, we do talk about it. The first time she said something, I think it just sort of came out because of enthusiasm, she had been a bit apprehensive of how I would react. She was surprised I was not upset, but curious as to what/how he did it. The first time it happened for me I said something and she was a bit hurt, and she was surprised by that, as was I. But now it is not an issue. We both understand there will be times that someone is exceptional at something. We just treat it as a learning experience. It is not a big deal really, we change over time. Something I might have tried 10 years ago, that she did not enjoy then, she really likes now. We continue to evolve and our likes and dislikes change as we grow. I think it has been a great learning experience as we explore new things and both improve at giving the other pleasure. I would estimate that about 80% of the time that our previous "best sexual experience" has been improved on, it was by each other, not someone else. So while this weekend someone may rock our world better than previously done, we both expect that it won't be that way for long. That has been one of the best unforeseen benefits of swinging, we continually raise the bar sexually for each other.

+1 It's not even close. She and I are magic together.

For us, it's an easy 'No..and never will'. Simply put, those we have sex with in the Lifestyle represent different - as in a change of pace. That's why we swing! Their technique or 'equipment' may be different, or they might toss in something new - but it will always be missing the race-winning element: the intense emotional connection that we have with each other. We can have fantastic, mind-blowing, near-nirvana-like sex with someone else and afterwards eclipse it with each other. I know, I know..I'm just a S.N.A.G, but it's worked for us 'lo these many years. M

Nothing like keeping a great post like this going. I've read a few comments from people who have hinted around what "pops" into my head after reading the title of this post. I think WesternSwing and JustAskJulie come the closest but I really felt the need to voice my own opinion about this topic. Granted I'm new and my experiences are few but I would be extremely naive to believe that Mrs. Diggs and I will not run into this, maybe even frequently. After 12 years of being together and having lots of great sex, there is nothing that quite compares to great "NEW" sex IMO and even bad new sex is still quite fun. Intimacy is what comes from 12 years of being together and something that a fun swing night can never compete against. A couple that truly loves each other will share a level of understanding and love that goes beyond the physical yet infuses every physical act together. I'm sure there are going to be guys/girls out there that will give us experiences we will never forget. Swinging is just like a relationship in the fact that it requires communication and disclosure, lol, trust, honesty and respect for it to continue to be an enhancement to your relationship. When you lose all that then to me it's only a matter of time before you lose the reasons you got into the lifestyle to begin with and it becomes just about the sex and not an experience to deepen your relationship with the one person you have truly given your life too. Call me delusional, misguided or silly but this is a learning experience and therefore you should expect that you will learn something from it. Share it, enjoy it but always remember that once you start hiding things and blurring the lines, you have to ask yourself if you are still in it for "both" of you or just yourself? Most posts I see on the swinger boards like SLS all state things like this is about enhancing a couples relationship. Keeping things from your SO seems like a growing wedge that will eventually poison the relationship to me. Sometimes growing in a relationship isn't as comfortable as we would like but in the end, I'd choose growth over stagnation. Too deep? Have Fun !!!

Picking quotes from various posts by you ... Keep in mind that the voice in your head is often society's idea of how you're supposed to behave. While there's reason to put some weight in that, you shouldn't let it control your life. It's your life to live, not anyone else's. Living by someone else's rules is a pathway to sadness. Decide what's important to you, how you want to live, what you want out of life. Live it. There's a very large amount of things you can think about with regards to swinging, and a zillion questions to ask. Most can be answered before ever experiencing swinging at any level. Some can not be answered without trying it. Continuing the swimming analogy; you can't know what it's like to swim until you're actually in the pool. No amount of reading, of watching film, of hearing instructors, etc. can answer all questions about swimming. Swinging is similar in this regard. But, you should be ready to swing; don't swing to find out if you're ready. For my wife and I, we decided to swing when we'd answered all questions we could think of that were answerable without swinging. The answers did not result in anything that precluded swinging, so we went ahead. It took a while to get there though, and a lot of conversation to do so. He is correct. However, in any sufficiently large group there's going to be bad eggs. There's people you're not going to like in swinging...at all. Swinging represents the entire cross spectrum of society. Well, almost all of it. It's ok to be scared. Really, it is. All of us were where you are at some point in our pasts. We all went through this on our own way. For you, you're really thinking your way through it, and that's great! Being scared is your mind's way of defending yourself. You're in territory you never expected to be in your life. You don't have the tool set to manage it at this point. Parents don't take their kids aside as some point and give them the swinger's version of the birds and the bees. It can take time to develop some framework on which to consider swinging. Some people take years. That's ok. Some jump right in. That's ok too. What matters is what you are comfortable with. Understand; nobody here is going to be an evangelist with respect to swinging. Several people have already told you you're not ready. I agree, you're not ready. We'll give you the bare facts and opinions. It's often stated that to be a successful swinger you have to separate love and sex. This is true, but only to a point. For my wife and I, we still view swinging as making love, just that the sex might be with someone else...the love making is still between us. I very, very much enjoy hearing my wife moan with pleasure, whether it's me that's causing it or another man. I like being involved with her when this is happening. We're still making love; the other man is an accessory to that. I don't see that your boyfriend did anything wrong here. He was not committed to you, and as such him having sex with other people is perfectly acceptable. If he was committed to you, that's a different story entirely. But, that's not the case here. Further, I think it's great that he is being so forthright in his wants and desires. He's mature enough to recognize that there's certain things in his life that he wants to remain in his life regardless of who is he with. He's willing to not stay with someone if that someone is not willing to accept these things. It sounds to me like he understands himself well. He's not being selfish in this. He's just being clear about what he wants. That's no different than a younger man saying "I want kids, and don't want to marry someone who doesn't want to have kids". We wouldn't fault someone for stating that. I can't fault this guy for saying "I want to swing. I don't want to marry someone who will not permit that". That's hardly selfish. It's just being clear. It's also not wasting your time further if swinging is not something you see yourself ever accepting. Bravo on all counts. Yeah this can be hard. There's been many times I wanted to talk to friends about swinging, and couldn't. My wife and I now have a friend who we can talk with about swinging, but that was pure coincidence that we found out he's getting into swinging with his partner. Finding this forum was a tremendous find for my wife and I. Sooooo many questions were answered for us. Having this forum has been a tremendous support network for us, and that support doesn't mince words. We love the honesty. My wife wouldn't pursue swinging as a single female either. In fact, if you'd asked her just a year ago if swinging was a possibility for you, she would have first insisted on proof of snowballs in hell. Oddly, it was she who first broached the subject last year, and we've been progressing ever since. My wife is willing to pursue swinging for a few reasons; (a) having sexual fun with other people is very rewarding and fun. (b) almost all couples report either improvement in their marriages (the vast majority) or neutral impact on their marriages..only a small number report negative impact. © she feels very safe with me, and trusts me without reservations...and vice versa. Lastly, I wanted to chime in and voice agreement with what many have said. Do NOT go zero to sixty. You're not the type of person to do that, I suspect. Go at your pace. Also, I agree with others; your sexuality has been repressed for a LONG time. I think you will surprise yourself with just how much you find in yourself in exploring your sexuality. Keep posting, keep asking. We're here.

This is an interesting thread. I haven't yet found a playtime or any single activity more intense than my wife and I can give to each other. I'm sure it will happen one of these days, but until then, I'm enjoying the search (and the wife). "Just different" is plenty good enough.

I thank Heatherb for getting all the way to page 4 of the original thread to find my post. That's stick-to-it-ive-ness, and I appreciate that it prompted her to add to the discussion. As I get older, I look back fondly on many wonderful experiences witih many wonderful women. At the same time, it makes me increasingly fond of the time I spend making love to my wife. She gave up swinging nearly 10 years ago. I did not. I still have some form of sex, including intercourse, with at least three different women at various times during the year (one last Friday, another tomorrow, and a third probably sometime in December, about 2 months from now). I love the feel of these women and the thrill of their touch. I love to bite one's nipples, to lick another's pussy, to penetrate the third, etc. Surely part of this thrill is the fact that they are all younger, between 9 and 35 years younger. Am I trying to recapturing my youth? Who knows? However, at this stage in our lives I have to say that my wife is the best of them all, even though her sex drive is waning, her lubrication needs lots of Vagifem-type help, and she seldom plays with my privates to give me an erection. That notwithstanding, she is the love of my (long) life. Taken as a whole, there is not another woman who can hold a candle to her. The moral of the story is that "once upon a time..." there were others who might have had one (sexual) ability or another that seemed superior to my wife's. Now that we are "living happily ever after...", my priorities change amd my love deepens. Among all the folks who read this board, I doubt that I am the only one who has gone through this change. And furthermore, I bet that the younger folks will feel this way as they get closer to retirement from swinging IF they really have a long, wonderful, and strong marriage.

This is VERY good! Good self advice for a first time couple That makes complete sense. Trying to separate sex and love is something that women, on average, find harder than men. For my wife, this was a concern of hers as well. The way I viewed it, and expressed as much to her, is that so long as we're in the same room together, it's an extension of our own love making. We play with real live humans as living sex toys. If emotions begin to become deeply involved with the other person, then there's a problem and our rule is we drop that couple cold turkey (though politely to them). We've also talked about the what if scenario of if we are with a particular couple for a few years. You can't help but develop some emotions for them. But, there's a difference between romantic love and friendly love. Sex is one _small_ part of traditional marriage. As my mother said, it's not the bricks of the marriage, but the cement that helps hold it together. Having more cement (no double entendre intended!) from others isn't going to detract from that I can make love to my wife just holding her hand. I can make love to my wife by scattering flower petals in her car while it's parked at her job. I can make love to my wife by sending her a sexy text message. I can make love to my wife by doing the laundry, dishes, cleaning and putting the kids to bed while she is sick (did that last night). I can make love to my wife by going out in pouring rain to the car to retrieve her umbrella so she doesn't have to get wet on the way from the house to the car. I can make love to my wife by filling her car up with gas when she's out with the other car, so she doesn't have to deal with filling it. I can make love to my wife by using her favorite sex toy on her in just the right way (just about makes my arms fall off, but she loves it!). I can do all of these things and not involve my penis in the process at all. (images of trying to involve my penis while pumping gas aside ) I can have sex with my own hand. Sex is a physical act. It can and often does involve deep emotions, but sex is not an emotion itself. It's a physical act. A fantasy of mine is me partially sitting, with my wife's back to me laying against me, while she is getting it from another man and her having a mind blowing orgasm at the same time he does. I would love to see that, and I would feel very deeply, intimately connected to her (not that I don't already!). From his posts, it certainly does NOT sound like he's doing this begrudgingly just because you want it. Some men, myself included, are very wired towards pleasing their partner in whatever way they can. In my case, that includes other men having sex with my wife while I am with her. It sounds to me like your husband is very similar. Rejoice! You have a husband who is extremely devoted to your pleasure! That's a GOOD thing! Even if the two of you never swing, you're absolutely in the right place. The kinds of questions you're asking can really only be answered here. And trust me, if we think you're not ready for swinging we will tell you. I can't tell you how many times I've seen posts from the regulars here telling a couple that they are not ready, or need to really consider xyz before embarking on this, etc. I've never seen any pressure from anyone here encouraging people to do something they are not ready for.

Luvjazz, I don't know that swinging isn't for you.....there is a saying that you will hear ALOT in the lifestyle. You can make friends out of swingers but you can't make swingers out of friends. I'm telling you. I don't know you, and can't tell you what you should or should not do. Number one, like I said before: I would advise no more sex with the friend. You have got to come to terms with the fact that swinging is about lust and recreational sex. Nothing scares other couples off more than the fear that someone will get attached. Jay and I are here to have sex with you, party, have a blast...but we're going home with each other. If you cannot separate sex from love you are not going to be able to be a happy swinger. Some people can't! I have a good friend who cannot imagine how Jay and I do what we do (she is vanilla of course). To her sex is so intertwined with romantic love that she could never separate the two. So you should really introspect and look within yourself. Shelly

Yes welcome to jealousy 101. The problem isn't your friend, the problem is you. For him it meant exactly what it should have been. Casual fun sex with a long time friend. For you its become a new love. You are the one with the issue not him, and you are the one that needs to get over it, not him. I'll be the first to say that I've had some jealousy issues with swing partners when I've seen them playing with someone else. Jealousy is a natural reaction to sex much like love, in fact the two are pretty well intertwined. This is something you will NEED to learn to separate and get over. Don't be a slave to your chemistry here. I know its easy to say 'get over it' when I don't have the feelings, but thats just what you are going to have to do.

Chicup got this one right Don't play with friends or fellow employees from work. Can have bad results. Get out there and play more. It will separate the sex from love/lust. Easier said than done?

Pretty much completely disagree. The brain ties sex and love together for some pretty obvious evolutionary reasons. In my opinion one of the best side effects of swinging is that I've been able to separate love form sex. Rather than the three of them fucking it out of their system, it would be far better for them to fuck it out of their system together or with a new couple where the op can get her mind to separate the sex from love. luvjazz - Lets face it, having sex with a long time friend is really asking for trouble because you have all the elements of 'love' right there. Long time person who you genuinely like, and then finally that big emotional release of finally having sex with him, something you had no doubt been thinking of for a long time. Let it go, let him go, and find your own way in this together as a couple. I'm also almost certain that someone will post about the 'poly' life style and suggest you explore it. For reasons I won't get into because it will create a pointless argument I'm not in the mood for, I think thats a very bad idea in the long run.

“Love is the condition in which the happiness of another person is essential to your own.... Jealousy is a disease, love is a healthy condition. The immature mind often mistakes one for the other, or assumes that the greater the love the greater the jealousy.” Robert Heinlein, from Stranger in a Strange Land It's late, so forgive me if this post is disjointed in places. I started-off with that quote because from your post I feel it fits your idea of love, the idea that when you love someone you should be jealous of others intruding, or that if you are jealous you must love them. Things like: In fact, it is so often the opposite. In jealousy there is more self-love than love. Jealousy is a defense mechanism to prevent yourself from feeling hurt because of your own insecurities. It has nothing to do with the other person doing something wrong, it has everything to do with your fears that they will. We have been conditioned as a society to believe that if someone loves you that they should be jealous and protective, and that is what shows love. No, that shows insecurity. Insecurity that someone else could be preferred over them self. But, by being jealous they are protecting themselves under the guise of "protecting" you from others. Jealousy is simply the fear that you do not have value to your partner. Whether you swing or not you have to let go of this ideal of love or your relationship is doomed from the get-go. As Havelock Ellis once said: "Jealousy, that dragon which slays love under the pretense of keeping it alive." Sooner or later you get tired of feeling smothered. And it doesn't have to be even about sex, it can be that they are going fishing, or to the ball game with friends and you are going, etc. Jealousy rears it's ugly head in many ways in a relationship. I also wince at this statement. I don't think many swingers would say that swinging hasto be a part of their life. It is something they like to do, not need to do. This is a fear for many that haven't experienced swinging or swingers firsthand. Like Intuition said - what if you fall for another man you hook-up with? Is that possible? Or are you thoroughly, completely, madly in love with your boyfriend and it's more than just good sex between you and therefore there is no sex good enough with any other man to make you fall out of love with your boyfriend? Like Intuition said, any woman can offer him sex, just like any man can offer you sex, but obviously he, like you, have passed-over all the other possibilities out there for each other. Why? Because you each offer more than just sex to each other. Besides, isn't insinuating that sex is enough to lure your boyfriend away insulting his intelligence just a little bit? Isn't it a bit like saying he's so dumb that he'll fall for anyone with tits and a pussy? That would tell me he's in this for BOTH of you, not just himself. Like it says in the FAQ: you're partner having a great time has to be as important to you as yourself having a great time. Swinging is helping your partner live-out their sexual fantasies while you live-out your own. Notice I said "sexual fantasies" and not "relationship dreams". Again, social conditioning. I relish Mrs. WS's sexuality. I worship it. I love to watch her with other men. It's live porn starring my most very favorite porn star in the world. I don't love her less or not at all because I love to see her have sex with other men. I love her even more for being such a wonderful, sexual, exciting being that also happens to think I'm the greatest to ever happen to her. It's one of the very things that attracted me to her in the first place, why on earth would I ask her to not be that sexy person I met that night? To me there is sex with someone you love, and sex with someone you don't. Both are sex, the emotion and feeling afterward are different. The worst sex with Mrs. WS beats the best sex with anyone else any day. The latter is getting-off in a wonderful manner, the second is getting-off in a wonderful manner that also happens to fill my heart and soul with an overwhelming feeling of love. Since your boyfriend saw others while you were broken-up and came back to you, I would think he himself was missing that with the other women. It may have been fun and good sex, but it was emotionally unfulfilling sex. Maybe you experienced the same thing during your hiatus from each other? Believe me, not only do I love Mrs. WS deeply, I love her on a whole new and I feel higher level than I did before we started swinging. Our relationship has moved beyond the petty jealousies that we see in so many of our friend's and neighbor's relationships and we trust each other in ways few will ever understand. She has had sex with other men, and good sex at that, and she still loves me more than anything in the world. What kind of trust, security and respect do you think that builds? But with all this, I'm not saying you should swing. I am simply saying that because he wants to doesn't mean he doesn't love you. It means that you mean enough to him, and he has so much faith in you, that 1) he can express his fantasy to you, and 2) he knows that you wouldn't run away with the other guy. Take it for what it is: ultimate trust and faith in you. If he didn't have that with you than he never would have brought-up the subject of it with you. I hoped that helped some and that my tired mind wasn't wandering to much and it all made sense. Mr. WS P.S. Intuition said it best in this post from last December. It is so good I bookmarked it in my Favorites. You sound just like me several years ago. I had these same ideas about love, sex and marriage (and now look at me ). I had a tough time getting over the thought that he valued me so little that he could pass me around like a chunk of meat to other men he barely knew. I felt that this was a great deal to ask of me, to ask me to degrade and defile myself just so he could fulfil some selfish fantasy. I mean, really!? What the hell was I anyway? Some blow-up dolly?? I was hurt and angry. I am NOT some fucking TOY! After a long time of thinking this and never really telling him how I felt about it (more about communication skills in a second...) we finally cleared the air. He was surprised to know that I felt that way. He finally explained it to me. He wasn't asking something of me; he was giving me a gift! He was trying to find a polite and inoffensive way to return my wedding gift to me: my sexuality. This was him telling me that he didn't want me to cut off a piece of myself like a grisly sacrifice. He loved me too much to ask that of me. He fell in love with all of me, and that included my sexual vitality. He loved my flirtiness and adventurousness. My gift to him was to kill that for him so no other man would ever have it. The trouble was that he would never see it again either. Not really. Just like you don't appreciate the sun without a little rain, when you take away the means for me to prove that no other man can have that one part of me that is reserved just for him - my heart - my marriage vows lose their meaning. So this is our marriage vows in action. When I have sex with another man, that's me saying, "This other man can borrow my body, and he can do nice things to it, and I can enjoy his company...but he is not you, and I love you. This other man will never have this part of me that you have so completely in the palm of your hand. And I love you and thank you so much for giving me the chance to prove this to you."

Okay, here we go. First of all, I'd like to say that at one point in time, I could have written part of this myself. Especially this part: I was admittedly curious, but for selfish reasons. The rest of me was hurt and confused. So I know exactly where you're coming from. Actually, no you don't. While it does take a lot of guts and energy to un-learn and re-learn everything you believed about love and sex, it's not a requirement to be happy. Swinging isn't the only way to be happy, just like monogamy isn't the only way. They're just alternatives. If you're truly not into it, then you're not. I definitely commend you on your openness, though. But please, do NOT try to "wrap your head around it" just to hold onto a relationship, no matter how dear he might be to you. Wrap your head around it because you're honestly curious and interested. It can work no other way. If you're considering it for any other reason, you'll only hurt yourself and those around you. This always concerns me. I always find it discomfiting when someone chooses swinging over a relationship. If this isn't the case, I apologize. It's just what I gathered from what you wrote. I personally feel that swinging is just an overflow, a hobby. If I were able to without risking my job or my social life, I'd proudly wear the "Swinger and proud of it" T shirt, but while I proudly identify myself as a swinger, I don't require it to be a whole person. I disagree that anyone "needs" to swing. We just like to. This sounds better though. One of the best things Mr. intuition did for himself (as he was the one who brought it up and was initially interested in it), was to back off and let me explore it on my own terms at my own pace. He essentially just presented the idea, let me know he was an open book and would honestly answer any questions I have, let me know that he would only move forward with it when I was comfortable with it, and then stood back and did nothing. I've beat around the bushes long enough. So to answer your questions more directly: Or what if you fall for another man? Is that possible you think? This is why I feel that swinging works best when it's done by couples who trust one another implicitly and who have intensely intimate relationships and deep committments. If this describes the two of you, then that's great. What I mean is that swinging makes you your own worst enemy. Whatever you fear the most is the demon you'll be battling the hardest. You create your own demons. Like you said, you freaked out, crying and hurt, confused, feeling abandonned, humiliated, worthless...not good enough, not pretty enough... just not...enough. But is this what your partner is actually trying to tell you? Or is this what you're afraid he is saying with his proposal? Who is the enemy here? The other women? Him? Or is it yourself? Think about it: If you truly felt that you were the best woman in the world for your man, would it matter if he had sex with another woman? Would it matter if she had sexual skills that could leave him grinning for a week? Would it matter if other women wanted to try and seduce him away from you? If you're wondering, No, it wouldn't matter. Because you would know what you were worth, you would know that you have something unique to offer him that no other woman can. Any woman can offer him sex, and it's naiive to think that we are each the very best lover in the world. So...if you remove sex from the equation, what else do you have to offer him? I think this is the core of it all. Just like the 10 Commandments hinge on the Golden Rule, so does swinging hinge on this one question. What do you have that no other woman has? And does he appreciate that quality in you? So the requirements are two-fold: 1) Trust yourself (know that you have something unique to offer), and 2) Trust your partner (to know a good thing when he has one). I love that I no longer have to feel jealous. It just doesn't exist anymore. I love that I never need to worry again about one of us cheating on the other. It's just not necessary, because the pain comes not from the sex, but from the sneaking and lying. We have both made a solemn vow (Not just a promise, but a real vow) to never lie to one another. We have to trust one another to make good on that vow. It's all we have. Without that trust, the relationship would be nothing but shit. So I not only trust him, I organize my life around that trust. I refuse to even question that trust. I simply believe him and never question it. And further, I have no reason to disbelieve him. He has given me every reason to believe him when he says he would never go behind my back and hurt me in that way. He has had opportunities, but he has always refused. The other part of it is that I know he would never define himself with such dishonourable actions. He has way too much integrity. And it's the same for me. Cheating is not something I can ever do. It's not just imperitive that I don't cheat; it's virtually impossible. The dishonesty turns me off, the idea of disrespecting and hurting my husband sickens me, and I could NOT live with myself knowing I had disrespected myself by lowering my standards so greatly. As far as the idea of developing emotional attachments to others goes, we have discovered that we're poly-friendly. This means that as long as it doesn't threaten or damage our relationship, neither of us minds the other developing other long-term relationships. Now, we have chosen not to because it is impractical and we don't feel we have the emotional reserves or the time to devote to nurturing more than one relationship at a time. I have no interest in being emotionally intimate with anyone else. In that sense I am very much a monogamist. But if I did take an interest, Mr. intuition would be receptive to it. We think this way because we love one another, and we just want the very best that life can offer for one another. I'm not so naiive to believe that I am so goddess-like that my husband's desire for other women is rendered impotent. I don't need him to have a limp dick around other women to know that I'm sexy and desireable in my own right. I'm perfectly comfortable knowing that I'm sexy and desireable just the way I am, flaws and all. In fact, I'm all the more confident knowing that he loves everything about me...including my flaws. I sure hope this has helped some. Have a look around the board, especially the New Swingers forum. It answers lots of the basic questions. Welcome to the board!

Good times.....yet again.... DITTO lol.....I'm starting to think you and I might get along well Heat and passion is not equivallant to love....I am not 'making love' to the guy.......just seeing fireworks and rainbows while f**king him (and I will cover my bases this time by saying that....yes, I see them with my spouse as well, lol) I am new to this board....I am stating to think that tempers might easily get flared here, eh? Many very well spoken people, I have noticed. However, it's so easy to have something taken in a manner in which it was not intended.

I wouldn't assume that just because the sex is hot and passionate that it is "making love". I can't speak for Ellcie, but I can totally relate to what she is saying, and for us at least, it has nothing to do with making love. We too reserve that for only the two of us. Maybe reserve is the wrong word, we don't think it is possible to "make love" to anyone else because, frankly, we don't love them. Hot passionate sex without any outside distractions is totally different to me than "making love" to my wife. And like Ellcie, I too have found that separate room sex sometimes results in some mind blowing passionate sex that just isn't possible in a group of four people or more. Is it for everybody? probably not, but it works for us. Sure we still enjoy the same room sex, it is all about the variety after all, but like Alura said above, "I'd hate to have to choose between the two scenes."

Because sex is fun... And sex in a group of people is fun... Sex with two women is great - giving Mrs Spoo the joy of having sex with two men is great. I get to experience women of different body types, techniques, theatrics - Mrs Spoo gets the same things. But - still - "no one ever comes close to my SO." Call me weird, but I don't swing for "better". In fact, I don't expect that I will ever experience that. And that's okay. At the end of every swing experience, I get the "best" - and that good enough for me Let me ask you - do you swing because you feel your wife isn't the best? Are you out looking for "better"? Never said that I haven't had my world rocked... Good lord have I ever! There was this one time... Well - actually a few times... Details aren't really necessary... But - just a few hours ago - I got my world rocked by Mrs Spoo - and that is a regular occurance. I am not saying that for brownie points - I am saying it because it is simply the truth. She is, by far, the best I have had. But - like I said - in my mind we are comparing two completely different things. Spoomonkey

It has sort of happened... . There was a position that a partner tried with me that I had never done before that I thought was great. Hubby and I discussed it and we tried it out and it was just as fun the second time.lol. Other than that there was one guy who seemed to hit me in just the right spot during sex but that had more to do with his size and shape rather than technique. We agree with Teresa.."glad you enjoyed it!" Not only do I love my husband, which for the most part makes sex much better, but he has come to know me and my body in a way that someone else just doesn't. We are very comfortable and I can relax and don't feel in any way selfconcious around him, which makes sex more passionate and fulfilling. BUt no matter what happens we are able to talk openly about it. Just in a way that is not going to hurt each other's feelings.

I was the first to respond that it has happened and we have discussed it Have you ever had sex with someone, in or out of the LS, that was better than your mate? It's really hard to say one is better than another, different, WOW, cool are better terms I think. However, that being said...Ted had the opprotunity to receive a blow job from a lady that he said was the best he had ever had. My response was cool, how'd she do it? It seems that this lady was able to deep throat him and at the same time lick his balls with her tongue. Sorry, I can't do that and probably never will be able to so...I just to her and said cool, glad you enjoyed it dear. Did you discuss it with them? Yep. If you did meet someone that just rocked you in a way you have never been rocked, would you admit it to your mate? Yep. How do you think they would resopond? So far so good I've had some amazing sex with our playmates before and so has Ted....we always discuss it and we always tell each other what we liked best about it. It is hard to take love out of the equation where your partner is concerned. Ted and I know that we are each other's favorite because of the love we share, so it's no big deal to either of us when the other says so-in-so fucked me good tonight...we're not naive enough to believe that we are the best at what we do sexually/physically to each other but we are wise enough to know that ultimate physical pleasure is not much unless there is also an emotional attachment to go along with it. So yes...we have both experienced people that were a bit more talented than each other...dicussed it, learned from it, shared it and kept right on thinking that we were the luckiest people in the world to have found each other. Teresa

AAAAAAAAAAAAAARRGGGGGGHHHHHHHH! The day we were preparing to go to our 1st couple's home, intending to do full swap, we agreed we would stay in the same room to provide each other a reassuring touch, if necessary. As luck would have it, I also had a terrible cold that day. My nose was running like a faucet, so I took a DOUBLE DOSE of antihistamines so I wouldn't drip on the other woman during sex! I didn't think that would be too cool. More bad luck. It was spring, and the heavy oak pollen was making the other woman's allergies go wild, so she felt like a zombie. You can see we're getting off to a good start here, can't you? lol Anyway, after dinner we all got naked and jumped into their hot tub. Mrs. Pairbond and our host got cozy in one corner of the tub, but Hostess Lady was about knocked out by the combination of allergies, medications, and hot tub, so she was just sitting there with her eyes closed doing nothing! Bad sign! We decided to go upstairs, so Hostess Lady and I go up and head into the master bedroom, and just as we are going in, Mrs. Pairbond says "We'll be in HERE," and she and Host Guy disappeared into the next bedroom and closed the door. She said later that in her excitement she just FORGOT that we had agreed to stay in the same room, and when Host Guy said "let's go in here" she just followed along. At that point, I turned around and there was Hostess Lady lying face down on the bed, fully wrapped in her terry cloth robe, not moving! This was NOT looking good! I was so new I didn't have a clue what to do under the circumstances, so after a while I started massaging her lower calf and ankle, which was about all that was poking out of her terry cloth robe. No response! After a while, it was time to do SOMETHING, so I started to slide my hand higher up the inside of her leg, and WHAM, she slammed her legs tight shut! So now Mrs. Pairbond is in the next room fucking Host Guy, and Hostess Lady is making it pretty clear she isn't interested in doing anything with ME! Not knowing what to do, I just lay back and did nothing, waiting for this whole horrible ordeal to be over with so we could go home. Finally, Hostess Lady stirred herself and tried to get me up with oral, but by then it was WAY too late. I had already stressed out to the max and nothing was going to happen, and it turns out if you want to have an erection under the BEST of circumstances, DON'T TAKE ANTIHISTAMINES, which are vasoconstrictors, which means you cut off blood flow to extremities, such as YOUR DICK!!!! Anyway, for the first time in my whole life, NOTHING MOVED, no matter how hard Hostess Lady tried to get me up. Not a twitch! I was MORTIFIED! And just as the panic inside me was rising to maximum proportions, I heard Mrs. Pairbond getting off in the next room! Wow! Didn't I have a great first time? pairbond