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And there is the heart of our problems. Take about any issue, and you can boil it down to that. Until people once again learn to mind their own business and not everyone else's too, things will continue down the road they are on. I also agree with Fitlakecouple that if you think they aren't coming for us eventually, then in my opinion you are mistaken. For a certain element of these folks, there is no stopping point of trying to impose themselves on everyone until they are stopped. If they do get a victory, then they just move on to the next phase of their righteous crusade. It's what they live for. A note on the politics - like a few other rare times, there are some subjects that are very germane to our community here and that simply can't be discussed without politics being an aspect of the conversation. It's like a mayor and city council trying to shut down a club somewhere. The subject is impossible to discuss without a political slant since it is politicians doing it. Those have been allowed unless they started to get out of hand. It's generally been a good discussion so far. Let's please keep it as narrowly focused as possible on the subject at hand without any rooting for your personal team/teammates or criticizing others for their team/teammates.

First you wrote, “I am trying to show my wife what she would be in for😈” Then you wrote, “She just really wants to see what guys would do with her . Guys feel free to be explicit. Let her know what she would be in for.” And after that, you wrote, “Really what we were looking for is an idea of whether she would attract someone at a club we are thinking of visiting in Ct … Posting what men would do to her would boost both hers and my confidence.” The people on this board have more experience in the lifestyle than you have. In many cases, a TON more experience. So they went beyond what you asked to try and offer helpful advice and observations about your first trip to a club based on their experience and acquired wisdom. What was your reaction? To whine about how unhelpful they are. bbarnsworth said it pretty well: “The people here are very, very good. Sometimes what we have to say isn't what people want to hear.” On the side facing me, it appears that you really aren’t interested in the collective experience here and don’t want to be told anything other than what “men would do to her”. So I wrote something very explicit — as YOU requested — and that’s why I then asked, “Happy now?” There’s another piece of this that you (apparently) also fail to grasp, even though several posters pointed it out … namely, that there’s more that makes a woman attractive than just a hot body. Quoting bbarnsworth again: “a woman with the best body and the worst personality is...at least for me...going to find I'm not interested in the slightest. A woman with below average looks but a great, engaging personality is going to find I'm very interested.” So the fact is that while some men won’t care about anything other than looks, others will … and there’s no way to tell you what the men at a club will “do to her” because there’s no predicting which men you’ll run into there. What it sounds like you *really* want to know is what your first experience at a swing club will be like … and if that’s the case, then just ask that. And you ought to want to know what it will be like for *both* of you. But that’s a far cry from wanting to know what men will “do to” your wife.

Wife86, I'm sorry the night turned out so poorly. There are potential explanations for your husband's reaction, but it's hard to know what's going on without being able to speak with him. You're facing the same hurdle of course. Wild guesses; your husband didn't expect you to have as good of a time as you did. He might feel like he's lost something with you, and doesn't feel like he can ever please you again the way you were. There might be some deep seated jealousy exposed within himself that even he didn't know about beforehand. It might be that now that he's seen you having sex with someone else, he can't unsee it..and it keeps flashing back in his mind, like a small form of PTSD. I would strongly consider counseling to help work through this. He might not want to go, but at least have him go with you. This has to be talked out. It might take time, even a lot of time, but patience is key. For some people, swinging is just something that can not work. That's ok. It doesn't make him broken, or somehow less. Get back to being just the two of you, and stay with that. That doesn't mean we don't welcome you here to talk with us! Please do. If you have questions, we'll try our best to answer and help you through.

Be it swinging or going out dancing are you actually trying to understand reluctance and respect their boundaries or pressuring them into doing what you want because you think it will be fun and they should enjoy it too?

Seems like an odd “general question” to be asking if there’s not a woman involved, and I don’t think I’m the only one here who took it that you’re talking about a real person. You asked how to respond to someone who’s hesitant, and I told you there are too many unknowns about her hesitation for the people on this board to be able to answer you. I don’t consider that negative … just realistic!

If my partner isn’t interested in something I don’t say anything to try and get them to reconsider! I respect what they say and abide by it. Everything we do comes from us having great communication and listening skills with each other. If we didn’t we would not have succeeded in the things we have done together. We would have crashed and burned like some of the other couples we have known over the years that clearly did not know how to be honest and communicate with their partner.

NC, I never said this was for me, I was just asking a general question. Since you admittedly speak for everyone here and seem rather negative, I'll move on.

I know what I would do to him, Absolutely Nothing. If they are a couple, something I’m not convinced of, why is he only showing her pictures? I’ve learned over the last few years that swinging couples are both partners not just a wife. I go back to an experience where the male was an asshole and the girlfriend was sweet and I decided after that I wouldn’t want to be with anyone in that situation. IMO this thread is nonsense and not worth anyone’s time. Tell your wife she is very attractive physically to many on here and from what I have been reading she would be better playing as a unicorn.

I'll begin by saying that I am a dyed-in-the-wool social libertarian (not to be confused with a being member of the political Libertarian Party, completely unrelated) and wholeheartedly agree people should be free to do as they please with as little government interference as possible. Yet, no freedom is absolute. There are limits to every freedom we have, up to and including what happens to our own bodies. For example, we are not free to smoke crack. We are not free to have sex in public. We are not free to operate our car without wearing a seatbelt. We are not free to go on a cruise without proving we are vaccinated. We are not free to board a plane without being subjected to both search and seizure. And so on. In most instances, we accept these limitations without so much as raising an eyebrow. The exact limits of our personal freedoms become particularly thorny issues whenever we reach an intersection where our own freedoms start to interfere with, or infringe upon, the freedoms of other people. Like it or not, abortion is one such example. Abortion is, by definition, the cessation of life. People can argue about what "stage" of life the unborn may be at any particular moment during pregnancy. But, the underlying fact that a life is being snuffed out cannot be denied. And, therein lies the crux of the issue: At what point does a person's individual freedom to terminate a pregnancy become subservient (take a back seat) to the right of the unborn to be unmolested? Many argue, Is there any more basic right than the Right to Life? As far as the issue of morality is concerned, What are morals? Morals are socially agreed upon limits--guideposts, if you will--that help to explain acceptable versus unacceptable behaviors and norms that allow society to (more or less) function. We all agree an adult having sex with a child is immoral (and, thus, illegal.) Why? It is because we understand a child is incapable of having the ability to consent. The child is "at the mercy" of the adult and, thus, powerless. The adult has both a moral and legal obligation regarding the "standard of care" that is automatically afforded the child. In the eyes of many Americans, perhaps even a majority (?), abortion takes on a similar hue: The unborn is entirely powerless and "at the mercy" of the adult. At what point does the adult have both a moral and legal obligation regarding the standard of care afforded the unborn? It's a very thorny thing, not so easy to define. While polls show most Americans support a woman's right to have an abortion, those same polls show Americans overwhelmingly believe that right is not absolute. Most people polled see a great distinction between terminating a pregnancy at, say, eight weeks versus eight months. Roe vs. Wade created far more problems than it solved and left unresolved the most difficult issues. It was a heavy-handed, poorly-reasoned decision that used a cudgel to treat a societal wound that required a scalpel. That should be obvious to even a casual observer. Otherwise, we wouldn't still be debating the issue nearly a half-century later. Lastly, I take issue with the notion that swinging and abortion share any linkage. They are entirely unrelated issues. The presumption that an unplanned pregnancy automatically equates to an unwanted pregnancy, one that can only be resolved by having an abortion, fails to pass even the most basic examination of the facts. In the US, according to the CDC, more than 40% of all births are to unwed mothers (a statistic believed to be significantly under-reported thanks to California, the most populous state in the union, no longer recording the marital status of mothers.) Billions of people are walking the earth right now thanks to "unplanned" pregnancies.

Sorry you both are going through this You've gotten a lot of great advice above that I totally agree with so I won't try to rehash what others have said. The first thing that entered my mind when reading your post was "time heals all wounds." I don't mean to throw that old cliche out there to minimize what you both are going through right now. Rather, as trying to be a voice of optimism since it's easy to get really down in these situations and think things are hopeless. I don't think things are hopeless, it just feels that way right now since everything is still so raw. Once time dulls that raw edge a bit, things will start to look a little better and you can figure out how to move forward together. In fact, I think that is already happening since he was ready to talk some now where before he wasn't, so that's good. Wishing the best of luck to the both of you as you work through this. Swinging or no swinging, please stick around the site as long as you like, Hopefully we have something to offer you but I think you have a lot to offer us too. Swinging is not always one endless party, there can be a dark side too, so stories like yours are important.

Thank you all I just needed ask someone who is in the lifestyle for advice I was completely at a loss and I hope in time we can get passed this.

There are counselors who have experience in ethical non monogamy (ENM) who can be of particular help. Some traditional counselor may balk and perhaps be too judgemental of the swinging topic.

I have written about this at length in other threads: Far too many couples decide to jump into the lifestyle without having soberly considered both the potential upsides and downsides. Swinging is not a good fit for most marriages and far more marriages have been ruined by having sex outside of the relationship than have been helped. This should be the starting point of any serious discussion about swinging. A couple should know they are rolling the dice and considering an activity that is, by definition, high risk--both to their relationship and to their physical and emotional health. And far too many people in the lifestyle act as proselytizers trying to convert people to the lifestyle. This is extremely misguided if not borderline unconscionable. It is unfortunate the OPs are having such a difficult time. We encourage them to seek out professional help immediately. This is not the kind of thing that a couple can ordinarily resolve on their own. And the longer it goes on unresolved, the more damage is being done. Wishing them the best of luck.

Swinging requires almost total trust in your partner. You need to reaffirm that while it was fun, it will never be as good as what the two of you have. Also, let him know that you don't want to do it again (not you won't do it again because he didn't enjoy it, but that you aren't interested in doing it again). In hind sight, you probably should have taken smaller steps, but it's too late for that now. Just keep letting him know that you love him and while it was something that you (both) wanted to try, it's over and done with. He is all that you need and want. Counseling would be a good thing if he is willing since there is probably more here than what any of us are seeing. Good luck and let us know how things are going.

How exactly did you talk him into it? He’s a grown-up, isn’t he? He could have said “no” at any point prior to your physical encounter with this other couple … or even prior to meeting them. I agree with the other posters that you two need a lot of open, honest communication and maybe professional help. But you didn’t talk him into this … he LET HIMSELF be talked into it! Don’t take on all the guilt.

He needs your love and support, obviously no swinging and a little professional counseling.

80eezcouple, I'm sorry you feel the way you do about the feedback here. I can tell you from direct personal experience there is no way that my wife and I would have gotten into swinging if it weren't for this board. The people here are very, very good. Sometimes what we have to say isn't what people want to hear. I'd much rather we say what we think needs to be said than to lead someone down the wrong path. This forum supports the swinger community. Because of that, it also means we tell it like it is as we see it. If we're wrong, we certainly invite correction.

American Taliban. Your right to swing is on the chopping block.

...blocking the legitimate appointment of a supreme court justice, legalizing that corpor­a­tions can now spend unlimited funds on campaign advert­ising, gerrymandering, restrictive election laws... It will not stop until we demand it. And, for one moment you don't think they'd come after our pass time??? There are no clubs in Michigan any longer for that reason.

Let this sink in ladies… Whether you believe in abortion or not; you do not have autonomy over your own bodies. And, you will not have autonomy over your own bodies until you stand up. Many men will stand with you, but you must stand up. Shut this fucked-up country down if you need to; but be heard. You have the power to fix this.

I agree with Gold sorta, keeping the child would not be a question of whose it was, but rather if we were capable and ready to rasie a child. If not abortion would be considered. No where does the constitution say that "women" are created equal - run that up the flag pole. I wonder if the bigger issue here is that we, as citizens, don't feel like the system is representative of us. We don't trust states to be fair, impartial and representative. We don't trust the government to be fair and representative. We now are questioning whether the Supreme Court is fair, non-political-impartial and representative. The system is built upon the idea of majority rule, yet after decades of politicians and lawyers screwing around many do not feel it's so. Add to that, folks working to use the constitution and the legal system to legislate moral and ethical behavior and we have a problem. There will NEVER be an answer to whether abortion is right or wrong. There can only be opinions and preferences based on our personal feelings. What the courts can do is to look at the constitution to determine if one person moral code violates another's rights under the constitution. But that is no longer how this works. the law has become a game of words and dancing around. I actually think these issues are much easier to adjudicate, but due to politics, etc have become mired in legal mumbo jumbo. The courts and the politicians have gotten what they have created. An electorate that believes their wishes, moral codes, ethics should be hoisted upon others. I actually think these issues are a lot simpler. The constitution is the foundation, everything comes off of that. Are all men and women created equal. The court says yes. and that is pretty well spelled out in the constitution. so, any law that violates that, needs to be one that improves upon that and benefits the greater good.

Roe stood as precedent for 49 years. It was affirmed in the Casey case in 1992. The right to privacy theory arose from several cases like Griswold and Loving and it was supported by a majority of the court since the 1960s. You and Judge Alito may disparage it, but I think that the majority of Americans enjoy their right to privacy.

In the 60s and 70s, there were state laws against homosexuality, interracial marriage, contraception and, as stated above, contraception education. A series of Supreme Court cases that recognized a constitutional right to privacy made these state laws unconstitutional. If the leaked Alito decision is issued, there will no longer be a federally recognized right to privacy. I think Americans can name the states that will reinstitute the laws mentioned above. Sad to say, in my opinion, this country is regressing in terms of freedom, self-determination and self actualization.

Some of the same opponents of legal abortion also oppose the use of contraceptives. If the US Supreme Court bans the use of contraceptives, we are all seeking asylum at Enhancer’s house.

So yeah I need some advice from you all we have been talking about trying for years and we finally after talking quite a bit about decided to join a local swingersboard. We mostly just chatted with people to begin with and the night was actually pretty normal for the most part like any other night out really. But then we met a couple really nice both me and my husband liked them anyways we chatted for quite awhile and we really hit it off. Me and my husband decided to speak privately for a minute and I asked my husband if he liked her and he said yes she is a very attractive woman and we ended up going with them to a private room. I slept with her husband and it was basiclly a swap I enjoyed myself immensly he was very well endowed and it actually hurt me in the beginning but he was very gentle and did not go crazy. But then after maybe 10 minutes I saw my husband getting really uncomfortable and he put his clothes back on and excused himself. I of course put my clothes on and followed my husband outside and he just said I can't do this he was shaking, I said okay you don't have to we can go right now. He asked me to drive he did not say a word on the 40 minute drive home he was just staring blankely. He has become completely withdrawn he can barely look me in the eye anymore and I feel so lost he looks like he is in such pain and I have no idea what to do he barely talks to me anymore. So need some advice because I feel I have royally messed up and I feel terrible seeing him like this, I was the one who brought up swinging and talked him into it.