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Thank you for describing a real life example on how having feelings can and should work. It takes maturity, understanding, and above all total openness. I don't see the OPs husband as necessarily being sneaky or deceptive. He feels embarrassed and vulnerable about his uncontrolled emotions. He needs to be told it is ok, but needs to share. My husband was very understanding in that way too about my boyfriend as well, talking to him about it made everything all around better.

I agree with Peterj. A month, maybe this works out. Longer term it won't. It is difficult to make an accurate comment about purchasing a house without knowing your financial situation and the area you're looking to purchase. I will say that I have in-depth knowledge about a handful of real estate markets around the country. Though every market is different, the common theme is prices rose far too much over the last couple years and interest rates have almost eliminated demand. Supply was pretty low and continues to be. Sellers aren't desperate enough to really reduce prices. With all that if you are actively shopping now and are finding it difficult (you didn't explain why) you aren't going to see much of a change in the next 6 months. Rates will continue to rise and but prices will hold pretty well (maybe a 10% reduction in some areas). However, that 10% reduction won't do much for your payment with the rising rates. Again, this depends on where you are looking for a house. I have a friend that has been waiting for a correction in a handful of CA markets for 20 years. Rates aren't coming down significantly (I don't think they'll come down much from here for some time) to make any difference in your potential payment (again, no idea where you're looking or what price point). A "correction" (unknown how you're defining that) won't happen because supply is still low, those on the market and not selling are being taken off the market and not being discounted. You won't see increased supply until Sprung 2023, early Summer 2023. I'd recommend signing a lease so you don't chase an overpriced house out of desperation.

I appreciate all of the feedback on this post. Nobody ever said the lifestyle would be easy, I know. We are working things through and I believe we have finally come to an understanding. 💕💞💓

I, for one, will encourage you. Like many others here, I say that being nonmonogamous is one of the best aspects of my life and strengthened my relationships. Unlike many here, I advocate facing your fears and just do it. Yes, move cautiously, but when you believe the situation is right, go for it without hesitation. Some say that there is a possibility of permanent damage; there isn't. If it turns out it's not for you two, be mature, stop, move on. Let your wife lead. She knows what she's doing.

My wife and I talked about this situation while out on a walk last night. She agrees this is a bad situation, and needs to be stopped. She also noted that if your husband has become infatuated with the other wife, the way in which he is behaving is not conducive to his desires to spend time with her. In fact, it does rather the opposite. My wife and I have previously discussed how we handle feelings developing between either us and a play partner. Neither of us feels threatened by it, but we have insisted that any such developing feelings not become an impediment to our own relationship. She's had two long term boyfriends while we've been married, both of whom she developed feelings for. I encouraged it, because it made her happy. She enjoyed having sex with them, and she enjoyed spending time with them. But, there's no way that could have happened if we didn't have 100% communication, and complete honesty with each other. We have no secrets. Your husband needs to understand that in order for this to work, there has to be that absolute communication without any secrets. Otherwise, its guaranteed to end badly.

You know what I think is an excellent boundary to not cross? Not calling other people on this forum a dumbass. It's fine to disagree. It's not fine to start casting insults. Please stop.

I came close to being in a dv, but when the other man asked me and the woman I was in, I got excited and came. Did you enjoy it? Tough to coordinate?

Well like most people I think I’m here for some clarification, confidence building and to see if what’s going on in our relationship is valid to potentially move on Like many we fantasise and talk dirty during sex. It began with my partner talking about how she wanted to watch me with another woman…. That evolved into me adding another man (ie couple) to the scene and since then my partner has said about extra single men joining the double couple for some greedy girls action Now I must admit although this turns me on and I love the thought of it, I and her will still need to cross that personal jealousy and insecurity factor and that’s a big part of where we go from here. I will also add that she had a couple swap in a previous relationship but only played with the woman as she didn’t find the male attractive I want to discuss the reality of this but feel I could spoil what we have by maybe saying should we explore this Any encouragement appreciated, I’d love to here from those in similar situations and advice on any pitfalls or red flags we should worry about as I’m sure there is a lot to consider

Perfect. It is the path we traveled. Started out regular swinging, but found like minded couples who also wanted to go bareback. It took a while, but we all got tested several times while remaining bareback monogamous with our spouses and only playing within the group using condoms before the all clear. If anyone wants to play outside the group, ok but let us know and leave the group. No one has. I also figure the odds of someone actually cheating is low because 1) the penalty is death, and 2) there is so much sexual variety and quantity within our group the desire to cheat is low, less than a non-swinging monogamous couple stuck with only themselves.

travelingprofessional is quite knowledgeable about real estate matters. The OP didn't mention where they are looking to buy and their profile is silent as to where they live so it is difficult to speak about the market they're in. I agree with Peterj and travelingpro that the suggested living arrangement won't work long-term. You mention that your renewed lease has a "huge" increase. You should start shopping around. With inflation where it is and likely to remain, and a recession on the horizon, you should look to find a cheaper living arrangement and not lock into a year of a "huge" increase.

Whether or not bareback is possible depends on the couple. In my experience, condoms are a given in most circumstances. On your profile, you can indicate a preference for bareback. That might help you, and might dissuade couples that otherwise would play with you. My wife dislikes condoms more than any other woman I've ever known (and talked with on the subject). We've always used condoms except with two long term boyfriends she had and a couple whom we were exclusive with and tested. The two long term boyfriends started out with condoms, but over time, a willingness on their part to be exclusive and testing, the condoms were no longer necessary.

Thank you. But I have been called worse by better people. 🙂

First, if you cannot afford to purchase a house now, I’m sorry to say that unless you are very close to being able to, the chances you will be able to in the next few months — really, the next couple of years — is effectively zero. Realistically you need to be looking for a year-long lease. And, yes, you’ll be paying more for a place that;s equivalent to what you have now. I mention the above because the notion of moving in with new-found fuck buddies would likely be dubious for a week or two. For several months or a year, I think the odds of it working out well would be vanishingly small. The only way I could imagine this working out would be if they had a self-contained mother-in-law unit and you were paying rent. (And even then the sexual factor would bring the potential for unhappy complications.) Here’s to some good fortune in your hunt for housing. As you have noted, this is a tough time to be in the market.

Our first was while dating at my place with my friend and Lin. Our first as a married couple was recently on a camping trip with new friends. The were was at a camp under the stars.

Our first couples swap was with Lora and Walter, but in an unusual way. At the time, Lora was a friend of mine who I encouraged to have sex with my husband David, and she did. She wasn't in a relationship, which is likely why she so eagerly took the hint that she could have my husband. Lora was occasionally seeing Walter and honestly disclosed that she had relationships with David and me and Clair. Walter was ok with her being involved with us. They got more serious and rather than Lora breaking it off with David, Red, Clair, and me, he joined us for swaps. The first time was at our place. During that time, Lora and Walter became exclusive (except for their play with us), got engaged, got married. Meanwhile, Lora and hubby fell deeply in love (and I in love with her), so when Walter got a great job on the other coast, they divorced and Lora moved in with us and completed our poly family.

I would never consider myself bi as I have no desire to be with another guy but I will watch him with Linda.

I respectfully disagree. The background you don’t have, and frankly I wished you’d have asked is: This has been a discussion for us for 5 years or so. I have always prioritized my marriage. There have been times I wanted to swing, and she didn’t. Immediately, I would drop the subject, only to have her bring it up on her own. This isn’t me pushing. This is our joint desire. We feel like we’ve tried nearly everything to break the cycle of on again, off again. Have we cycled up and down? Sure. Have we learned from it? Absolutely. Are we perfect? No. But who is? Is my situation ideal? No. Hell no. I would change it if I can. I’m trying to change it. But whether we swing or not has never, and will never affect my effort in my marriage. I love my wife more than I’ve ever loved anyone. I would do, and will do anything, to make this marriage work, because it has been the greatest relationship of my life. Perhaps your comment wasn’t meant as an attack. But it certainly came off as presumptuous at best, ignorant and aggressive at worst. I choose to believe the former. That you didn’t mean to be so negative. I was simply seeking some sage advice as to whether OUR idea (joint idea see?) COULD work. Thanks to all who offered constructive support. It never mattered whether the advice was “pro” swing, or “anti” swing. I was simply seeking to partake in experienced people’s wisdom, whatever the advice, BECAUSE I don’t want to damage the relationship or marriage in any way. Thank you all.

If you provide generous grant money, universities would be happy to submit proposals, do studies, and write detailed reports. Seldom do universities fund studies on their own. Not with Clair, Lora, and me. Being pregnant, having kids, nursing, all that shit didn't slow us down at all. What actually happened was that as we got into our thirties our desires went up, while the guys' desires and abilities for long and multiple sessions decreased. That's why we women now share an outside boyfriend (with their approval) for those times we need it.

Ditto

Yes definitely will 100% We just need to get out and do it, the part about her going raw with a total stranger does sometimes make me think and weather to ask her about using a condom but on the other hand I know now she wouldn’t want the guy to use one

I put Other. The first time we swapped with another couple, we (the wives, actually) decided that it would be better to do it separately, so after dinner we swapped partners and went back to the respective wives' homes and spent the night. Daniela explained that it is more intimate that way and there's no pressure to put on a show for your spouse. The next morning we met for a (late) breakfast and swapped back.

The police report likely has a picture of her tits drawn by a sketch artist. ( . ) ( . ) They are now two of the ten most wanted.

Mine was back in college way before I was married. I was a bit of a wallflower and this girl named Jenny did not accept that and pulled me away from that wall and made me come out of my shell way more than I had ever before. We quickly became best friends and were always spending time together. This included going out and hunting down men together as well. One night we were at my apartment and in my room just hanging out and chatting like we had done many times before about many subjects and we started talking about what it would be like to be with another woman. Both of us by this point had kissed other women out of teasing guys or being at a party or something but what would it be like to go further. After some discussion it turned into why not see so we started playing around and seeing what it felt like.

Introduction Marriage is a social, legal and often religious event marking entry into a voluntary mutual relationship. Amidst the celebrations with newly connected families and friends, the newlywed couple makes reciprocal commitments that are often enshrined as vows during the wedding ceremony. Prominent among those vows is a promise to "forsake all others" forever, or at least until "death do [us] part". That vow is widely understood to be a vow of perpetual monogamy. History suggests that monogamy is an especially difficult vow to keep. While researchers offer widely varied estimates of the rate of “cheating” (technically, “non-consensual non-monogamy”), most agree that about half of all married individuals cheat at some point during a marriage. Surely more contemplate non-monogamy than actually pursue it. Therefore it is likely that you -- or your spouse -- have at one time or another had thoughts about sex with others. These thoughts create tension: your vows matter to you, as does your spouse’s happiness. The purposes of this essay This tension, namely the desire for sexual variety in conflict with the vow of monogamy within marriage, motivated this essay. This essay discusses an alternative to non-consensual non-monogamy, namely consensual non-monogamy. Let us agree that the phrase, “consensual non-monogamy”, is awkward. Such consensual non-monogamy is also called “swinging”. Couples who swing are said to be “in the Lifestyle”. (For the balance of this essay, references to the “Lifestyle” [capitalized] are references to swinging. The more conventional use of the word to refer to any particular way of living [e.g. casual lifestyle, executive lifestyle, bohemian lifestyle] is avoided in this essay. ) Perhaps you became aware of swinging -- "The Lifestyle" -- and realized that there were others who not only had those thoughts but in fact acted on those thoughts. You'll recognize several themes including the importance of communication. You might well be asking yourself, "What do I say?" Or "How do I start this line of communication?" Conversations about sex are predictably difficult, and conversations about sex with your spouse that seek to consider inclusion of others into your sex life can be even more challenging. The purposes of this essay are to overcome some of the difficulties raising the topic for discussion. · The first purpose is to understand why and how the idea of swinging makes its way into a committed marriage. The first part of the essay addresses the drive for sex and for sexual variety. · The second purpose is to explore the state of committed marriage. Commitment involves actions, not intentions. · The third purpose is to offer a framework that encourages communication even about sensitive topics within that committed marriage. The commitments and the covenant The use of emphasis--"committed” in the phrase “committed marriage”--is deliberate and forms a centerpiece of this essay. There are marriage contracts (and prenuptial contracts and divorce decrees) that form a legal basis for a relationship. What is more important for this discussion is the marriage covenant—namely the commitments made to each other. The marriage covenant is not quite the same as the vows you spoke. Rather the marriage covenant is what each of you committed to each other --and why you committed to each other -- when you decided to take life's journey together. At that moment, you reciprocally acknowledged something valuable and wonderful in growing together. For reasons that will become apparent as this essay unfolds, recalling that point in your lives and reflecting on what you have done for each other and how you have grown together since that point is a key step in deciding whether swinging is right for you. Put simply, growing together--not living in parallel but actually growing together--is foundational to the Lifestyle. Commitment, monogamy, and the drive for variety It's reasonable to ask why anyone in a committed marriage would even think about other sex partners. "Isn't s/he enough?" "Didn't you do enough 'hooking up' or 'sowing your wild oats'?" "How can you even think about being 'unfaithful'?" The answer seems to be that most humans are hard-wired to seek variety in sex. While a few humans are truly disinterested in sex at any time (around 1% of Americans seem to be asexual), and while the variety-seeking behavior can be suppressed, the quest for sexual variety seems to be part of adult life.(Barash and Lipton 2001; Ryan and Jethá 2010)There are socially acceptable strategies: fantasy and role play. There are marginally acceptable strategies: sex in a semi-public place, pornography, strip clubs, sex for money (legal in some states). There are unacceptable strategies involving force and deception. There are culturally dependent strategies: the French have some reputation for tolerating husbands having mistresses and wives having lovers.(Yalom 2012)Regardless of your (or our) views on whether the activities are appropriate or acceptable, the drive for variety is real and is eventually either met or suppressed. There are two or three reflex reactions to the prior paragraph, namely: "I can and will suppress that drive for variety, "; "I have no interest in variety--my spouse is the only person I ever want/need/desire,” and "That's counter to all of my religious beliefs, cultural learnings, marital commitments and personal values." To those who choose suppression for the sake of superiority, good luck. Active denial of hard-wired drives is hard. While some people succeed at self-starvation (hunger strikes), most have difficulty with ordinary dieting. The situation with sex is not all that different. To those who claim no interest in novelty and sexual variety, bear in mind no distinction has been made among imagination, practices, physical status and available partners. Claiming that "my spouse is all I want" would mean that even if disability should make sex a physical impossibility, you would not be interested in sex with another. Serial monogamy--leaving one partner for another as famously exemplified by Elizabeth Taylor and her seven husbands--is just an expensive alternative response to the quest for variety.(Vaughan 2003) To those who object on moral grounds--religion, culture, marital vows, and personal values--your self-respect has our respect. You are trying to conduct your life according to principles. The drive for sex and for sexual variety is still going to be there. If history teaches us anything, it is that sex drives prevail. Politicians claim to embody "good family values". Celebrities present themselves as role models. Catholic priests voluntarily accept celibacy. All are subject to -- and nearly all succumb to --the drive for sex and for sexual variety. Entire industries float upon this biological drive and the failure to acknowledge and control it. So let's be clear. The quest for sexual variety does not magically end at the wedding. At some point, it is more likely than not that every couple will confront the dilemma in the context of marriage. Cheating is not an option. Committed couples struggle to reconcile marital commitments with underlying biology. Swinging--giving each other permission to yield to the drives and pursue the quest for variety while sustaining your marriage--has presented itself as an option. Swinging and the Nobel Prize It is unsurprising that the Nobel Prize for Literature in 1950 was awarded to one of the great minds of the 20th century, the mathematician Bertrand Russell. The citation for that prize reads "in recognition of his varied and significant writings in which he champions humanitarian ideals and freedom of thought." It may be surprising to learn that the prize was awarded for his writings on open marriage and the challenges that followed. In 1929, Bertrand Russell published "Marriage and Morals," which directly challenged the Victorian norms of sex and sexuality. Quotes appear below. Before reading them, know that Russell was attacked to the point that he had to resign a university professorship. (Then, as now, political correctness defeated new thought.) Yet many thought leaders rushed to his support including John Dewey (widely considered the father of modern American education) and even Albert Einstein who wrote an open letter on Russell's behalf saying “Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds ... ” Here are four representative quotes from the second edition of "Marriage and Morals" (Russell 1938)that illuminate Russell's mindset and writing: The psychology of adultery has been falsified by conventional morals, which assume, in monogamous countries, that attraction to one person cannot coexist with a serious affection for another. Everybody knows that this is untrue. The good life cannot be led without self-control, but it is better to control a restrictive and hostile emotion such as jealousy rather than a generous and expansive emotion such as love. Sex cannot dispense with an ethic, any more than business or sport or scientific research or any other branch of human activity. But it can dispense with an ethic based solely on ancient prohibitions propounded by uneducated people in a society wholly unlike our own. The general principle upon which the newer morality differs from the traditional morality of puritanism is this: we believe that instinct should be trained rather than thwarted. Here is a fifth and perhaps most important quotation from Russell's controversial Nobel Prize winning work: The essence of a good marriage is respect for each other's personality combined with that deep intimacy, physical, mental and spiritual, which makes a serious love between man and woman the most fructifying of all human experiences....Such love, like everything else that is great and precious, demands its own morality, and frequently entails a sacrifice of the less to the greater; but such sacrifice must be voluntary, for where it is not, it will destroy the very basis of the love for the sake of which it is made. Thus one of the great minds of the 20th century recognized and tried to reconcile being sexually attracted to someone other than their great love. Swinging--The Lifestyle--is simply one way of resolving the tension between biology of sex and commitments of marriage. Yet entering the Lifestyle has the potential to greatly affect marriage, for good and for bad. Swinging in the context of commitment On the surface, swinging sounds like the best of all worlds, "having your cake and eating it too". On the surface, swinging also sounds like the worst of all choices, putting marriage at risk for a little physical pleasure. Sorting through these diametrically opposing perspectives requires a much deeper exploration of what it means to be in -- a committed marriage. Here, the voice of the essay switches from third person to second person. The reason for the switch is to prompt introspection not about marriage generally but rather about your marriage. You are surely tired of the repeated use of the word "committed". You're thinking that every marriage represents a commitment--and you are correct. What we are after here is an exploration of how (both of) you see and embrace that mutual commitment. Your wedding is the obvious place to start. It was a wonderful, memorable day. Family and friends were there to celebrate; there was a party, maybe even a honeymoon trip. Yet that day was the outcome of a decision to journey forward together. You decided not just to marry but also to spend the rest of your lives together in partnership. Whether you knew it at the time, by this time you've come to understand that maintaining, sustaining and growing the partnership isn't easy. You've discovered what all of us long-marrieds learned: marriage involves a series of adaptations and compromises. How and where you live. How to raise the kids. How to manage money. How to juggle work, friends, responsibilities. Along the way, you've had some disagreements. Shouting matches. Hurt feelings. Maybe an authentic fight or two. You've found things in your spouse that irritate you. Here's the question: has any of that really threatened your partnership? Can you see yourselves apart? Can the rest of the world see the two of you apart? Or do you ultimately see your disagreements and differences as 'small stuff'? This is really important, because--as you will read in many threads--swinging is likely to expose and stress 'fault lines' in every relationship. Put differently, if both of you are not utterly committed to spending your lives together no matter what challenges come your way, swinging has greater potential for harm than good. Once and again, that does not mean your marriage is 'perfect', that either of you is 'perfect', or that you are immune to the ordinary negative emotions of anger, jealousy, and so on. That marriage exists nowhere (with the possible exception of 1950's American TV shows.) It does mean, however, that the partnership not only has value but also that it is of such value to both of you that you are not going to walk away from it. Marriage and Communication Just because you're in that kind of partnership does not mean that you communicate effectively. We know--and we suspect you know--committed couples that seem unable to discuss (much less resolve) disagreements. They "win" (or "lose") arguments. Moreover, they keep score. When threatened, they retreat to their corners. They "get past", "get over", "get through" in order to "get together". Perhaps they already disagree about sex. Their inability to communicate their feelings, their wants, their needs and their desires presents an obvious obstacle when one or the other first imagines coming to agreement about swinging. Suffice it to say that effective, honest communication is a precondition to exploring the Lifestyle. Precondition means that such communication is necessary but not by itself sufficient. We observe two communication patterns between spouses in the Lifestyle. While the same is surely true about some vanilla spouses, what follows are -- at least in our experience -- consistent characteristics among the Lifestyle couples we have come to know. First, they frequently are 'messaging' the other about how special/wonderful/important they are. Things they say, things they do, things they give, time they spend. It's not just doing the dishes unbidden, or bringing flowers home for no special reason, or the "I'm thinking of you" text in the middle of the day. It's all of those things put together. They look at each other, touch each other, and listen to each other. The communication pipes are open and flowing, they are engaged. Second, even when they are apart, they are emotionally connected. They speak about the other, and always with some note of affection or support whether their spouse is 6 feet or 6000 miles distant. Their spouse is never far from their thoughts. Both seem to know, feel and project this emotional bond. This does not mean that either is free of insecurities. No one, and certainly no couple, is free of insecurities. They are no less affected by aging, appearance, marketing, kids, finances, etc than the rest of us. Yet by freely and frequently sharing both their fantasies and their fears, they become stronger as partners. There is a third feature that seems to be common among happy Lifestyle couples. It is perhaps the hardest to put into words but on some level seems to be the most important. Each partner seems to be sensitive to--and responsive to--how their partner is feeling at the moment and in the moment. They have trained themselves--and each other--to reflexively pick up on and to respond to the other's needs and wants in both words and actions to the point that they often anticipate what will make their partner happy even before that partner perceives the want or need. Again, this feature is hardly unique to Lifestyle couples. It is nevertheless so frequently characteristic of happy Lifestyle couples that its absence would be immediately noticed. Compersion as an attribute of marriage These three features together enable something that Lifestyle people call "compersion". The word is a neologism--a 'made-up' word. You will not find the word in a conventional dictionary, yet there are many descriptions and definitions on the Internet. For our purposes, the most useful definition is finding joy in others' happiness. In the Lifestyle, it refers to finding joy in your partner's sexual pleasure and satisfaction, even if someone else is instrumental in providing that pleasure to and for your partner. However, it's worth stepping back from that particular situation and taking a broader look at different perspectives on happiness. At one end of a spectrum is schadenfreude. Borrowed from the German, schadenfreude refers to finding pleasure in the misfortunes of others. It can be a guilty pleasure, traded on by various tabloid and celebrity magazines when they breathlessly report who is being served with divorce papers, who has gained weight, whose plastic surgery went awry and so on. It can fuel laughter, as in much of slapstick comedy and “funny home videos” TV shows. It is pleasure purely at someone else's expense. Schadenfreude is part of the human experience. In the middle of the happiness spectrum is the "winner-loser" situation. In sport, someone wins, the other loses. In the stock market, someone wins, someone else loses. There is a sort of partitioning from a neutral situation into happiness for one, anti-happiness for the rest. One can imagine a 'fixed amount of happiness' in the world that is distributed, redistributed, yet is unchanging. It is a zero-sum game. It may be an unbalanced zero-sum game, for example only one person gets the job, the other applicants are unhappy. But in sport there is typically balance, a winner and a loser. Yet sport also invites unbalance, such as in tournaments where there is only one final winner. At the opposite end of the spectrum is compersion. Seeing a child laugh makes us feel happy. (Marketers and politicians understand this. It is also why you can't resist those cute cat videos on Facebook: they make you feel good.) These examples suggest that compersion is also part of the common human experience. Indeed, altruists organize their lives around the experience of giving to others and making them happy. Compersion is already part of your marriage: the things you do to make your spouse happy--flowers, the surprise vacation, the romantic dinner that you planned--you are happy because your spouse is happy. When your spouse gets a promotion, a raise, a gift from someone else--the happiness you experience because your spouse is being made happy--that's compersion. The Sum of All Fears Sex and sexual pleasure have a different calculus. Within monogamous marriage, it is acceptable for you—and only you--to bring your spouse sexual pleasure. Even when s/he (she or he) masturbates, it's 'without you'. Knowing that s/he's fantasizing about someone other than you and knowing that it's heightening the pleasure is disquieting. (Such “adultery of the heart” is still adultery according to The Bible, see Matthew 5:27-28. President Jimmy Carter famously confessed to same and lost a bid for reelection.) Imagining sex with someone other than you, having a great experience fuels anger, rage and shame. Unpack those emotions. S/he's having fun--with someone else!--and you're not. You are envious of what s/he can do for your partner. You become jealous of their shared pleasure. Perhaps you're secretly hoping that it will end catastrophically for them (the schadenfreude response). You feel vulnerable. Your marriage feels vulnerable. Your partner's fantasy has become reality. Unfortunately, it is bringing to the surface your worst nightmares. Let's get those fears out into the open. You can see the scene in your mind's eye. S/he's experiencing things that s/he hasn't experienced with you recently, if ever. Or maybe s/he's seeing you experience things that you haven't felt for a while, if ever. You...or s/he...are wondering if you are 'good enough' for the other. Maybe you feel left out. Maybe your partner does. Suddenly you feel vulnerable. Alone. Isolated. Abandoned. You were "the one" when you married. No more "playing the field". Those wedding vows about love, cherish, honor? They included that clause about 'forsaking all others'. Fidelity, remaining 'faithful', was crystallized by mutual sexual exclusivity. And now you (or your spouse) is talking about 'throwing it all away'. Throwing you away. Surely it's time for the marriage counselor. Perhaps a call to a divorce attorney. Maybe you two should write to one of those "Can this marriage be saved?" advice columns. If that's not bad enough, your broke at least two of the Ten Commandments, committed a mortal sin, will have to wear a scarlet letter and are surely damned to spend eternity in the fires of hell. In fact, just for even thinking about sex with anyone but your spouse and only then for purposes of procreation, you are surely at risk for spontaneous combustion. Really? What fuels this sort of spiraling illogic? A sidebar on envy and jealousy The term jealousy (and labels such as "green-eyed monster") is widely used in the Lifestyle without definition. Jealousy is not quite the same as envy. Both are complex emotions and have somewhat different origins. Both lie at the root of many fears. In fact, both crop up in the Lifestyle and it's worth recognizing the underlying drivers. Jealousy is often tied into fear of loss (of partner to another), sense of betrayal, uncertainty and even loneliness. Envy is often tied into fear of inadequacy/inferiority and simultaneous resentment of some other person even while trying to assume some of their characteristics. The opposite of jealousy is compersion, i.e. finding joy when your partner finds pleasure with whomever. Shifting the balance from jealousy to compersion requires a firm and maybe unshakeable belief in the durability of the partnership--knowing that s/he is the object of true and unshakeable love. That's a key conversation to have early and often in the Lifestyle--what is unshakeable and how perceived risks are going to be managed. Actions need to reinforce that conversation. The opposite of envy is contentedness. In the Lifestyle it is a blend of self-confidence and self-acceptance. In any collection of persons, there will always be someone else who is (choose one or more): taller, slimmer, firmer, flatter, bigger breasts, perkier breasts, tighter pussy, cums faster, cums slower, longer cock, thicker cock, more stamina, more responsiveness, deeper eyes, better kisser,... We are also attracted to different-from-what-we-already-have. That self-confidence and self-acceptance comes from within but within a partnership/marriage benefits from strong, regular, heartfelt reinforcement. Each of us has imperfections. We are often our own harshest critics. That can easily get magnified in an asymmetric swinging situation, especially where one partner has found a playmate and the other is not finding the chemistry/sparks. The twin fears—of loss and of inadequacy—can fuel each other and typically lead to intense shame (directed inward) and/or rage (directed outward). These are manifest as “drama”, something that no one in the Lifestyle enjoys personally or enjoys seeing. There are strategies for couples to deal with these complex emotions. First, there has to be a willingness to be vulnerable--to be able to say "I am afraid". Being able to say "I am afraid of loss/abandonment or I am afraid of being inadequate" are essential first steps to dealing with jealousy and envy, respectively. Acknowledging vulnerability is empowering for the individual and for the relationship. Dropping the shields isn’t easy. Superiority and perfectionism have become ingrained behaviors in matters of sex (“Was I better than ___?”) Foreboding joy –imagining those horrible outcomes because your partner is experiencing joy—opposes compersion. Second, there has to be a willingness to accept imperfections and even celebrate them. Those can be acknowledged and practiced outside of the Lifestyle. We would argue that they are foundational to a strong relationship. As for imperfections, we all have them. We all acquire more. Some are physical, some are emotional, and some are spiritual. Some are repairable, some are worth addressing. Those that are both are worth working on. Those that irreparable or insignificant must be accepted, and it's up to each of us how graceful we want to be about it. Let's recap the need for open communication, acknowledgement of vulnerability and embracing imperfection as foundational to the lifestyle. Eros and healthy relationships Wanting variety in sex is part of normal healthy erotic life. You are no different. Having variety in sex is also part of normal healthy erotic life. Playing the field before you got married. Fantasy about other partners. Role play. Photos, movies, books. Again, normal and healthy. When you married, you fantasized about a “perfect” wedding, a romantic honeymoon and a fulfilling life together. You shared an intention; you made a commitment--a deep and abiding commitment-- when you chose to become a partner in a relationship-for-life. As part of that commitment, you established monogamy-for-life as a boundary on your (plural) sexual behaviors. Commit that triad to memory: fantasy, intention, boundary. It will prove useful. It is years later. You are still utterly devoted to and committed to your spouse. Your spouse's happiness is a priority--and likely THE priority--in your life. You cannot fathom cheating on him/her. But the truth is that the exciting sex that came from romance has become routine. What was extraordinary and exciting has settled into routine. It is unsurprising that the drive for sexual variety has resurfaced. The fantasies are part of life. Figuring out how to manage them is also part of life. Learning about them is part of your good faith effort to resolve the tensions among fidelity and variety within your relationship in a way that does not threaten the relationship. In fact, you're working to find a way to resolve the tension in a way that affirms your love, honors your partner, and is honest and utterly truthful. We'll get to some specifics in the next section. For now, consider the following. Swingers have an interesting jargon. They refer to their other couples in the lifestyle as playmates. Not lovers, not girl/boyfriends, not even sex objects. They are playmates at play, enjoying temporary roles and their imaginations. Yes, this sort of adult play is the realization of adult fantasy. But it is still fantasy, analogous to when you were children imaging yourselves as Prince and Princess, Tarzan and Jane, Doctor and Nurse, etc. Indeed, swingers not infrequently have theme parties dressing up as Doctor and Nurse, Tarzan and Jane, Principal and School Girl, Swing time is adult play time. Swingers do not view the drive for erotic variety as a threat to their relationship. They view it as a way to deepen their relationship. Erotic Play One of the things about being playful is that it makes you feel good and it is likely to make your playmate feel good. For swing couples--this is where compersion comes into the picture-- seeing their partner recharged through play makes them feel good as well. Their partner seems more desirable --and they happen to be married to them! They feel more vibrant. They have given each other permission to be a little naughty with others, and this flows back as encouragement to be naughty with each other. "Sexy" comes back into conversation, into grooming, into fashion, into ordinary life. You want your partner to look and feel great. Your partner wants you to look and feel great. Not just for others. For each other. A few realities There is something irreversible about starting a conversation about non-monogamy. You can’t pretend that it didn’t happen. That makes the first step a difficult one. While nothing can be undone, there is no reason that starting a conversation should be a “nuclear event”. (If difficult conversations around other topics routinely precipitate nuclear events in a marriage, communication strategies and styles have a higher priority than swinging. As mentioned earlier, honest communication is a precondition to the initial conversation. ) Thoughts and feelings have to be discussable without creating havoc. A conversation should not destroy the relationship you have created over years. There are many other issues. For example, swinging involves dating, and there is a reason that few of us look fondly back on our dating years. Put simply, it's not all orgasms and roses. There are unhappy experiences in swinging, as there are in all life activities. Working through lack-luster play, uneven experiences, mistakes, disappointments and insecurities is part of swinging. Typically it results in a closer relationship with your spouse. Getting to know the Lifestyle, and others in the Lifestyle You also have a new group of acquaintances who are similarly comfortable about their partnership. They seem to have especially strong commitments to each other, are more attentive to each other than you see on average in your co-workers, your neighbors, your families. They are fun to be around. You are still committed to your partner. There's been no deception. You find yourself looking forward to dating each other as well as dating other couples. Your senses--and your emotional sensitivity --are heightened. You are more honest in expressing what makes you feel good--and what makes you feel bad. You find you can speak directly to issues that you used to avoid. What makes this all work? It gets back to communication. It gets back to a specific type of communication. There are three elements that are usefully discussed among you and your spouse before embarking in the Lifestyle generally, and perhaps before meeting new couples specifically. The three elements are: 1. What are our fantasies? We are doing this for fun and with each other. We are going to blur the line between fantasy and reality. What does that look like? It can be as simple as meeting a couple for the first time over drinks and dinner, knowing that they like to play. It can be as complex as imagining four (or more!) intertwined bodies. 2. What are our intentions? What is the reality of what we are going to do together? Is this “a little hobby”? How much exploration do we plan? 3. What are our boundaries? Are we clear on what we will do together and what we expect of each other? What does approaching a limit look like, and what will we do if-and-when either of us gets there? The answers to those three questions often evolve as people explore and experience the Lifestyle. Putting a toe in the water is different than jumping into the deep end of the pool. What matters is clarity “in the moment”. One more thought This essay is a meditation on marriage more than it is a meditation on the Lifestyle. The couples we know in the Lifestyle are far better adjusted than most we know in our vanilla lives. They are ‘more happily married’ than many we know among family, neighbors, co-workers and from other walks in our vanilla lives. One explanation is that there is a filtering process thinking about and entering the Lifestyle, and that process merely filters out the good ones. Perhaps there is something deeper. Working through the fears of consensual non-monogamy reveals a very different notion of 'forsaking all others'. People in the Lifestyle actually do forsake all others but on an emotional level. After accepting non-monogamy, it is that unshakeable emotional bond that remains. Marriage takes on the character of a spiritual relationship wherein the intensity depends only on that emotional commitment to share life's journey. Why do long-term Lifestyle couples stay with their partner? Simply because they cannot imagine going through life with anyone else. We find ourselves energized around other Lifestyle couples. Yet eventually we –and they-- go home. We go home with our spouses. Not simply because we want to, nor that we have to. We go home together because our union has become more precious, more fundamental to our very being than our separate lives. Barash, D. P. and J. E. Lipton (2001). The myth of monogamy : fidelity and infidelity in animals and people. New York, W. H. Freeman and Co. Russell, B. (1938). Marriage and morals. New York, Sun Dial Press. Ryan, C. and C. Jethá (2010). Sex at dawn : the prehistoric origins of modern sexuality. New York, Harper. Vaughan, P. (2003). The monogamy myth : a personal handbook for recovering from affairs. New York, Newmarket Press. Yalom, M. (2012). How the French invented love : nine hundred years of passion and romance. New York, NY, Harper Perennial.

The first time I swapped, I was just out of my first marriage. I was dating this girl, Laura, she also was recently divorced and wanted all the sex from me she could get. We often hung out with another couple at their house playing backgammon. (In the late 70's, backgammon was the hip thing.) One night somebody suggested we play strip backgammon. Okay! So I saw my friend Barb naked for the first time, and had sex with my girlfriend in the same room. Talk about a rush. A couple weeks later, we do it again. As Laura and I start going at it, I feel a hand on my back, it's Barb. She joins the two of us, a little later I see Laura's over with the other husband. I wrote this up as a story, should I post it in the story section? Just 'like' this post or 'hot' it, and I'll take that as a yes.

Every female I've ever been with goes crazy when I go down on them after cumming inside them. My ex-wife and I started swinging early in our marriage. One day I came home and I went down on her. While I was lapping away she told me her 'lover' came in her not more than an hour ago. I almost came in my pants!

we tried a new position last night. my husband was on the bottom and sat back in. recliner. i got on top nd he slid his cock in my ass. i spread my legs wide and the guy stood in front and was able to easily penetrate my pussy. my husband couldn’t move much but i loved the pressure in my ass while getting off on the other cock. I also liked being able to see him rather than being on all fours. i liked that when he pulled out i could watch him jerk off and cum on me. Not the same as pulling out and cumming on my back. Afterwards they switched - just make sure the guy in your ass wears a condom and then remove it if he’s going to switch to the front.

My close call with DVP was a cruel joke. I was at a house party. A woman (friend and playmate) was on top of me and I was in there. Another guy approached us and asked if we wanted to try DVP. I got so excited by the thought of it, I came almost immediately. My partner and her nearby husband thought this was very funny!

It's difficult to just happen into a dvp. It does require all participants to be on the same page. It's good to be aware that getting into the position does require a decent sense of humor. So, since she is concerned about enough room, be very careful. You should be the top guy. Get the bottom guy in as deep as possible and allow her time to adjust to him. The position is bottom guy with legs together, her cowgirl, chest to chest, you are coming in doggie with your legs between hers and his. Getting your dick in should be done pretty slowly and with too much lube. Once you get the head in, let her adjust again and don't push until you feel her start to push back, or tell you to give her some more. Once you are in, you will still probably have to go pretty slowly but let her set the pace. Keeping everyone somewhere between soft and shooting is tricky but with commitment and practice, you too can soon be DVP masters.

A number of years ago my wife and I were having a threesome and it turned into a DVP. It was a very enjoyable experience so we did it again a few weeks later.

I would like to share with you an analogy that I often use to help people understand what swinging is not cheating. I start out by relating them back to a previous experience when they were in school and taking a test. Generally when taking a test, if you tried to use your notes or sneak a look at the text book it would be considered cheating and definitely something to be punished for in some way. However, most everyone at some point in their schooling have had an opportunity to take an "open book" or even "open notes" test where they could use any resource they had at their disposal. In these cases it would certainly not be considered cheating to use books/notes. Why? Because you are not breaking any kind of trust with the teacher/educational institution, you have permission. Same thing with marriage. If you have permission and it is a consensual agreement between both partners it is not cheating, anymore than looking up an answer in the text book. I have used this explanation many times and most people seen to be able to relate to it.

Sexually I find I am fully sexual, meaning sexual with either gender. Emotionally I've only been hetero, though I don't see why that means I couldn't be omni. Just have never met the man who could stir my heart. Doesn't mean it's impossible. But sexually I'm not hetero or homo, I'm just sexual.

Fascinating thread! I'm a bi guy. While I can absolutely melt when I see a woman walking in the street, I am not physically attracted to a (dressed) guy. But ... A nude guy I have no problem with. I' m open to a lot of experimenting with guys and don't mind kissing and hugging, although I can do without as well. Actually a very interesting dichotomy. But being with a woman? Nothing better!

I like the term omnisexual. Enjoying the full geography of sex, not merely one half or the other. I could not imagine going through life never having enjoyed fully one half of the sexual possibilities, or actually more than half. Think of full threesomes, all the way foursomes and moresomes. Being completely hetero or homo misses so very much! Oh yes, I'm the male of our couple writing this. Romantically I'm stuck on females, well actually my wife. I've experienced one previous marriage and one very serious relationship that would never have been marriage even as it was as serious as my marriages, and I've experienced several other serious but not to that level relationships. Also experienced ten years living by myself, sometimes within relationships, sometimes not. I much prefer living with a woman. Could I have a serious relationship with a man? All I can say is that I haven't and I've been in more than a few relationships with women.

I've always been tolerant of M/M activity. Does not bother me at all. As long as everyone is comfortable and having fun, that's all that matters!