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A remarkable piece on CNN https://www.cnn.com/2023/02/19/health/couples-explore-nonmonogamous-relationships-wellness/index.html

Not a Scam Thank you all for the feedback. Some we agreed with, some we didn’t understand. I stated this incorrectly, she said she hoped she could do it, wanted to do it, just didn’t know if she could do it. Debbie and I knew they were not sure what or how to start so Debbie took things into her own hands, literally. He was very ready quickly. Bingo!!! Exactly what happened or didn’t. My fault. I didn’t pick up the signs, never checked her dripping. Have no idea what that all means. Let me clear a few things up, Debbie texted Laura, the other wife, thanking for inviting us to their house. Didn’t mention sex, just a TY. Laura asked if Billy was good that he didn’t have sex. This led to a call. Not hearing the conversation Deb said that I missed out, Laura was waiting for me to start. Funny part she said her husband now thinks he’s a stud. Debbie was very loud, Laura said she was faking, he said it was just him being great. We were invited back to their house on Valentine’s Day to complete what didn’t happen, we already had plans. We are invited back with one must, She gets hers before I get mine. I wish I could have listened because Debbie said I need to start with oral to get her lubed. Whatever it takes.

Thanks for such a thoughtful response. The level of self-awareness and detail is rare and appreciated. Two questions follow based on your placing JEALOUSY in caps. There are two prevailing toxic emotions illuminated in the LS. 1. Envy, meaning not having something that someone else has. "I want something you have." Think "the nicer car, the corner office, the fancier camera". This emotion is usually rooted in fear of inadequacy. 2. Jealousy, meaning someone has taken something that you had. "You want/took something I have/had." This emotion is usually rooted in fear of loss/abandonment. While the two genders express these fears differently, they are often at the root of LS ambivalence, drama, etc. You go on to write, "I found that jealousy had no place where trust and communication was paramount...it just couldn't exist in that environment." That's an interesting statement. The usual construct is that the antidote to envy is contentment--finding satisfaction in what you have and not worrying whether someone else has something 'better'. Similarly, the usual construct is that the antidote to jealousy is compersion--finding satisfaction in someone else's joy and happiness as much as your own. Your construct is different--you are saying that core values of trust and communication are themselves sufficient to extinguish jealousy. That is a unique and fairly profound statement, and speaks to the importance of establishing those core values (and maybe others) early in a relationship.

Actually a very well written article that sounds like what is repeated over and over right here it the forum. Well worth the 5 minutes it takes to read.

Last time I attended Sunday Service with a friend, I looked around and saw people who couldn't even refrain from destroying their health by eating way too much.

I have read these posts and I want to throw my towel in the ring. I go to a Baptist church but don't consider myself overly religious. I am not going to criticize what anyone here has posted, just tell you what our pastor told the congregation 2 weeks ago in his message. Our pastor said marriage is one man and one woman and unmarried people are to refrain from any forms of sex till marriage! Now, all I could do is look around our congregation and wondered how many followed what he preached. It sounds good, but I truly doubt that many people do that. Like I said, preacher said this, but I can't believe that people have the willpower to follow thru. My opinion, people can find anything in the bible to back their agenda.

Newtothis; responding to your point about Matthew 5:28: It is very common for people to quote passages of the Bible, yet not pull in the surrounding content for reference, much less connect it to other parts of the Bible. In no way do I mean that you are doing this. I want to highlight some things, that is all. First, understand that Matthew is defending Jesus as the Messiah, and that Jesus fulfilled the Old Testament. Take 5:28 a little further, and have a look at 5:32. Look past the written text here just a bit; here, if a woman committed sexual immorality, she could be divorced and thus be married again without her new husband committing adultery. But...what man under such criteria would marry such a woman? Taking the text more literally, if a woman did not commit sexual immorality, but her husband divorced her anyway (think; against her will), any man marrying her in the future would be committing adultery every time he went to bed with her. Nevermind the dichotomy of treatment of men vs. women in this scenario! Any woman who marries is essentially doomed to only every having the one husband unless her husband dies before she does. If the marriage is a failed marriage in every respect but sexual immorality, she can never divorce him, or if she does...can never remarry. I can't imagine this is what God intends for women. I refuse to accept that. And this is New Testament! Of note; my wife was married before me. My wife fully intended to remain married to him for the rest of her life. She never cheated on him. He divorced her anyway. Thus, according to the Bible I am committing adultery every time my wife and I are intimate. I don't think that is what God really intended. Back to 5:28; as I think we all know, men on average are more visually oriented in sexual attraction to others. This is not to say that women aren't as well, but for most men it is a powerful motivator. God made us this way. Let that sink in. God made us that way. It is good that sexual attraction (in both sexes) is part of us as it promotes the furtherance of the species, Without it, we would have died out a long time ago. Being lustful towards another is not in and of itself a sin. Where and how such desire is directed is where sin can come. If I look at my neighbor's wife with lust and desire, and I have no reason to believe that couple is non-monogamous, then my attentions are most certainly unwanted and I am doing something wrong. If I am looking at another man's wife, and I know they are non-monogamous, then how is that any different than me being single and admiring the beauty of a single woman? Referring to my earlier post; where is the victim? Where is the crime if there is no victim? Where is the sin if there is no crime? The key to this, as with having sex with others, is what counts as adultery. What counts as adultery to me is based on what counts as being harmful. In my day to day life, I encounter attractive women from time to time. If I'm directly interacting with them, I will address them while looking at their face, their eyes. If I'm not interacting with them, I will appreciate their beauty if I can do so in a way that is discrete, unknown to them. I hate the idea of a woman feeling like she is objectified. I don't want to do that. That creates a victim. There is harm in that. I can't change the reality that I am visually attracted to women. I can choose how to act within that reality, and prevent harm from occurring being that reality. My wife is well aware that I do this, and appreciates that I am discrete. She is not bothered by this, and sometimes even points out attractive women to me (and me, vice-versa with men). If she was not happy about this, I would do everything in my power to stop, whether she was aware or not. Otherwise, I would be making a victim of her. Again, it boils down to where there is harm there is sin. Let's look at this another way. "Thou shalt not commit adultery" is one of the ten commandments. So is "Thou shalt not murder". If you take both of these commandments with a literal interpretation, then the outcome would be no sex outside of marriage no matter what the circumstances, and no killing anyone for any reason ever. Let's look at murder. If a soldier in war kills their enemy, is it murder? Does it depend on whether it was justified? How do we determine "justified"? If an assailant is killed by their victim, is it murder? I remember reading of a very young mother whose husband had died. She was home alone with her infant. Two men attempted to break into her house. She killed the one who first made it through the door, and the other ran off (later arrested). Did she commit murder? When is murder murder? These are both commandments. If killing is not always murder, then why is adultery always adultery? Are there circumstances under which adultery is not adultery? Search that within your heart, within your faith. Ultimately, you can read and read and read the Bible...but it comes down what you feel. If it feels like adultery, it likely is. I've never felt like it was adultery. I've never felt like I was breaking my vows to my wife, or her to me. We take delight in having sex with others. I am very happy she enjoys other men, and I love watching and participating with her with other men. She always comes away happy, and our relationship is always the closer for it. My wife doesn't take the same pleasure in watching me have sex with another woman (it's indifferent to her), but she does take pleasure in knowing how good it makes me feel. We share a very special bond. That bond is not in any way harmed or threatened by us having sex with others. In fact, the bond is very much enhanced by the experiences we have had in having sex with others. This isn't to say we didn't have uncertainty when we first started doing this. The first time she had sex with another man in front of me was a bit of a nervous time for me and her. The first couple of times were in fact. It wasn't until the third time that my wife was convinced. It was an MFM. My wife had an absolutely amazing time, and could not get enough sex with the other man. She loved him being inside her, and throughout the very long session we had with him he was inside her for most of it. I thoroughly loved it as well, and took great delight in how much she enjoyed it. Nothing but joy came out of that evening, for all involved. I can not imagine in any respect such a joyous evening being in any way an act of adultery. Adultery ruins things; it doesn't enhance, it doesn't bring joy, it doesn't bring satisfaction. It destroys, stains, corrupts, ruins. Our having sex with others never does that. I'm not going to tell you that non-monogamy is for you. Do NOT take any of the above as trying to convince you. I'm providing a perspective from us, and how it worked for us. I can't speak to how it might work for you. Not all couples are suitable for non-monogamy, and there's nothing wrong with that. Couples that aren't suited for it will be harmed by it, and that is a form of adultery. You have to discern this for yourself. You will never be 100% certain if you're suited for it until you try it. But, neither should you try it if you're not pretty certain you're ready. For my wife and I, this took many months of discussion, research, re-discussion many times on previously discussed points, imagined scenarios, reactions, emotions, love, patience, and prayer. For some couples, it happens the first weekend they start thinking about it. Your journey is yours. We're always hear to answer your questions as best we can!

What's remarkable is how casual/mainstream it seems.

I am not really sure if this is the situation you are really looking for but the first time that I swung was in the early 80's while all participants were in our early twenties. It was me, my wife at the time, her maid of honor and her boyfriend. All 4 of us was at his apartment and the maid of honor announced that she wanted to watch me and my wife fuck. We had no problem with it, but we wanted them to fuck also. He did, and my wife also as we also swapped which he did, but you could tell that he wasn't happy about it and just went along. It wasn't 2 weeks later that they had split up, which she said he was a "prude ". Now the maid of honor went thru a lot of men and she was very sexual and that is why me and my ex wife continued to have sex with just her. The reason was because no other man she was with was not cool with swinging, or at least with us. The maid of honor was a very beautiful, short, brunette with big tits with a huge sexual appetite which I feel left her boyfriends insecure about sharing her. As far as our threesome, my ex wife was bi,and the maid of honor simply wanted me, and had sex with my ex wife to get to me. When me and my ex divorced, the maid of honor approached me to swing with her, which we did for a few years before she decided to give it up. But I think her boyfriends wanted monogamy, she didn't!

Swinging never damaged my relationships, but there was well deserved damage to my self esteem. After having married David while still having Red as my lover, I was full of myself. I thought I was a master of sex with men (not yet having discovered my Lesbian side) and believing that I could easily manage an expanded sex life. So I thought when I met Sam, found him attractive, and announced to hubby and Red that I was going to have sex with him as well. Well I did, and it wasn't fulfilling or even fun. The first couple of times were exciting, but Sam was a poor lover. He thought he was God's gift to women, just wanted me to blow him and fuck me in my bum, which was OK but anal alone doesn't make me cum, and he didn't care about my orgasms or satisfaction at all. On top of that Sam disparaged my husband (he didn't know about Red), saying that David must be sexually inadequate for me to let him fuck me, and a wimp when I told Sam that hubby knew about us and was OK with it. I would complain to David how my fling with Sam wasn't working as I had expected, and what I was thinking that I needed to do to improve it. (I'm compulsive and goal oriented.) David gave me the best advice - that it wasn't my solely responsibility to make whatever I was doing with Sam feel right. It then became clear to me that I was taking credit for the two relationships that I had with Red and David being so great, when in reality it was their attitude and efforts that made everything work so well on every level. My husband is a saint and the wise man in all of this. I would come home, we'd have sex (because despite what Sam did I still needed to fuck my husband and Red) and I would complain about how badly it was going. He told me it wasn't my responsibility to make this work, it wasn't a failure on my part, that I could end it. He was right. I ended it, humbled, and all was good.

A true Happy Ending or two All my thoughts were for naught. We had a much better fun and sexual night with laughs and new friendship. Laura, the wife, admitted she was very nervous the first time so she didn’t give me a real sign even though she said she didn’t think she would have stopped me if I made the move. Even now she was not that fast to go ahead as promised. She did! A few times. Was she hotwifed if her husband watched and enjoyed watching I think. For the doubters of their intentions, we spent the night and enjoyed breakfast and more fun the next day. If we didn’t have other plans last night we would have stayed another night. Now that is true happy ending or a happy beginning.

Newtothis; WELCOME! While I can't claim to be evangelical per se, my wife and I are most emphatically Christian. Of course, God calls us to evangelize regardless of how we label ourselves, and we do. For the record; we attend both an Anglican church and a Baptist church. Getting into swinging and reconciling that with a Christian life was something that was challenging for us. We didn't want to approach it as the sort of thing where we tried to ram it through, and twist and contort the Gospel to meet our idea of what we needed it to be to support swinging. We wanted to approach it with truth, honesty, and openness. We concur with jamesok; adultery is cheating. It's an interesting word. Work through that in the context of the Bible. Read the Gospel about this. What we found in our own understanding was that adultery is the act of one spouse bespoiling themselves by having relations outside of marriage without consent of the spouse. The penalties for this are the same for either the husband or the wife; death (Leviticus 20:10). Jesus removed that as a punishment, though the penalty remained. So it would seem to be a grave sin. But is swinging adultery? Is it cheating? Is it bespoiling? That's for you to reconcile within yourself. For us, it came to this simple truth; there is no victim. If there is no victim, where is the harm? If there is no harm, where is the sin? My wife and I choose to have sex with other people. They come away from it happier. We come away from it happier. Our lives have been more fulfilled by having an open marriage. We are closer, more loving, better communicating, and more trusting. Nothing has come from swinging that in any way has been a negative. We were ready to swing because we had a great marriage to begin with, and because of being able to find answers mostly on this forum. For those who are not ready, it can cause damage and that would result in a victim; themselves. But, dating someone monogamously can cause harm to ourselves. Obviously we are not cheating because we both consent to it. But are we bespoiling the marriage? If it generates such happiness and positive impacts, how can that be the case? Are we bespoiling our bodies? When a man cums inside my wife, is he tainting her by leaving behind his semen? Define 'taint'. My wife can not get pregnant, so no child is being created within her that is not mine. She enjoys the act, as do I. So, how is it bespoiling her? Likewise for me. This is your journey. Don't force yourself to reconcile the concept of swinging with the Bible. Answer the questions, yes. Contort the Bible and yourself to fit this paradigm? No. Prayer, communication, and reflection will guide you.

Amy and I were discussing. She her first cream pie was a big risk that she took but ontinuedfor 5 more years with condoms. She said that birth control changed the dimesion of love making. She has just two playmates that she wants to finish inside her. Once her lover cum on her belly and she didn't like it.

Yeah we've also reached the point that if we don't trust someone enough for bareback, we're not interested in hooking up with them at all. Which does make the hunt for playmates a much longer mission.

I never understood why either the guy or gal would want to cum on the women's face, must be a porn thing. Call me old fashioned, but I prefer to cum in her pussy, bareback! And as far as using condoms, I think women don't want to use condoms as much as the men, I have had women tell me that either they are allergic to latex or it rubbs their pussy raw.

You would have a harder time finding guys that want to use condoms then guys that want to go bareback! I am more then sure you will have no issue finding what you want.

Figure we will be called out on this. We leave it to our partners.

I would tell it would always be a mix of both regular and new partners. Both have their own advantages. For Tomy he prefers always new partners as he likes variety and for me it is about mix of both. The regulars know what you like and how and the new ones is always an experiment.

We both totally enjoy it but ONLY with dear people we fully trust and yes even then you pray that everyone in their circle is in yours and all stay trustworthy or the entire ship will sink. So 100% NO to strangers.

My wife loved being gangbanged and creampied. It was part of our relationship. If she could be photographed with cum running out of her the more she enjoyed it! I do not have a problem with this as I met her on a gangbang at a swingers ckub in europe! The only thing we had to keep secret was our jobs.So all the gangbangs were arranged in private.

That's not a problem, it's an advantage.

If on any particular occasion you need really tight, put it in her butt. The women in our group, including my wife, do anal. Given the choice, I much prefer a sloppy, well-fucked, loose pussy.

You're right. This is an emotional insecurity of yours. No amount of factual, objective data, or anecdotal evidence, is going to persuade you because this is a problem that exists in your emotional realm, not the factual one. My best advice is to talk it over with your wife, explain to her how you are feeling, and allow her to give you some reassurances. Perhaps have her play with a dildo that is larger than you are and then watch as her vagina "magically" returns to its normal condition. You might even enjoy the show ? However, I will note that a woman's body does change as she transitions through different stages of life. Post-menopause, it relatively common for a woman to experience increased vaginal tightness (and subsequent dryness) due to significant hormonal changes. These issues are fairly easy to remedy with a visit or two with a gynecologist. One of the common recommendations is simply to have more sex. Hooray! ?

The pussy tightness of both my ex-wife, two kids, and my current wife, one kid, were unaffected by childbirth, all vaginally. You are worrying about this too much. One of the wives in our group has a "loose" pussy. When I'm in her with my average size dick, it is a struggle to orgasm, especially if there's already cum in her. But you know what? When I do come, it is incredibly intense. Her cunt is like teasing my dick, my whole body.

If I let a guy in me anywhere (pussy, mouth, ass) I assume that he might ejaculate there and it is fine with me, he doesn't need to ask. The question was whether he would like me to make a show of rolling his semen around before swallowing, or trying to push it out of my vagina or ass. Some guys really like seeing the results of what they've done. In my mind, cumming outside of me is a waste. Because of my Catholic school upbringing, sex education, called "family health," emphasized the reproductive aspects of sex. So my mind as a horny mid-teenager was fixated on the sperm of the guy I was fantasizing about living in my uterus for days, days! It is still a fetish of mine to think about a living part of a man (or men!) living in me for days after they ejaculated in my vagina. Thinking about it now, there's always some guy living in there for the last 12 years, except when I used to go on long business trips.

When I am with a close friend or my husband, I go bareback. At these times, I prefer the intimacy of being pumped with my partner's semen. If I am with a few close friends in one night, I feel incredibly sexy knowing that sperm from many men are finding their way to my uterus. I usually use condoms with playmates whom I do not know well. Even with a condom, it excites me to know that they are thrusting and coming deep inside me.

Inside.

Inside. I got snipped so there are zero worries! I love the feeling and she does as well.

Mrs. EastInWest prefers it inside and will never ask for it outside, although she doesn't mind a bit. She consistently orgasms when a man orgasms screwing her, and the more she screws, the more she wants to. It's kind of a spiral where once you start, it's going to be increasingly disappointing for her if you don't finish inside her. I enjoy both depending on my mood, but really do love seeing a messy facial/breast shot, whether I'm delivering it or not. The first scenario we ever discussed as a possible swinging-type situation would be her sucking a couple of men off and letting them finish on her face and chest while I kick back with a nice glass of whiskey. That was just dirty bedroom talk but it took a couple of days for her to ask me, in the car, if I would really like it, because she thought she'd been thinking about it and could actually probably get into it.

Condoms make me very sore. Latex are worse but they all make me sore. Therefore, I won’t play if condoms are used. My husband and I have been in the lifestyle for 15 years and have not had any problems. That being said, you have to make your decisions based on your comfort level. There are plenty of opportunities for those who use condoms and those who don’t.

Could also be a cream pie thing...

Don't mess with a girl who insists on going bear back.

My ex-wife and I had an open relationship/marriage and although I voted for neutral I have been on both ends of the spectrum at times. It was more bliss than disaster most of the time for us. I'm a freak of nature and got off then, and even now, thinking of my wife with another man getting sexually satisfied and then coming home to me filled with him and allowing me to go down on her while she tells me ALL ABOUT her 'date'. That's just me. It was equally exciting to her to go down on me tasting my date while I told her the details as well. Where the disaster came in was when one of her 'boyfriends' starting to have/get feelings deeper than JUST sexual adventures and started trying to get her to leave me, we didn't divorce because of sex or swinging but for other issues. At first it was a compliment to her and especially me that he would want her so badly as to try to convince her to leave me. While she and I had our 'rules', loved each other (at the time deeply) and trusted each other on all levels he failed to play by our standards. She ended up cutting him off and while he continued to try and see her he finally gave up and moved on. DAMN I MISS THOSE DAYS!!!! LOL

LOL. Two points. Having 8 inches at home is cheating. I should have said how many have you encountered other than your spouse. Unicorns that let you ride, too funny, but so true. Of the unicorns we have met I have only known one that has been verified as playing. I spoke with her in the company of another couple she played with, so unless they both lied, it was clear by their comments she certainly played. Of the others I have yet to see them leave a party with anyone, but then again I generally don't pay too much attention to people leaving a party and with whom.

I've been with one guy who I'm certain was 8+ and had the girth to go with it (ouch!). We've ever had a true unicorn (only married friends playing alone) but I was a unicorn once so a unicorn seems easier to find.

Seen a lot of different threads on here about who uses condoms and who doesn't. Reality is the test. This poll is completely private. (We don't know who you are!!!) So please vote!!! We've been to quite a few different types of lifestyle parties and wanted to know who uses condoms and who doesn't or somewhere in between!!!!

I am skeptical of just how easy it is to contract HIV and here is why: I personally know a female who was the on/off girlfriend of a hemophiliac in the late 80's early 90's. He contracted HIV via a contaminated blood product and was subsequently diagnosed and died a few years later. They had unprotected sex regularly up until the diagnoses not only with each other but others as well, she was (and is) quite the cock hound, bless her soul. No one else from the circle ever contracted HIV. Just one experience but the only one that I have direct knowledge of. All that being said I still don't condone dragging your bare ass on a men's room floor.

It happens when we started the mfm experience. The other man who was fucking my wife (our friend from long time) didn't use condom and couldn't stop on time (my wife also didn't allow he to stop: she was on top moving herself with great energy). After we realized she could be pregnant (fortunally she didn't) and started to take pill.

Here is my experience with bareback Gangbangs. I frequently have them and really enjoy them. My husband and I travel all over the country and try every swing club we can. This experience made me realize how much I enjoy feeling different men inside me. I now enjoy as many men as I can. I am allergic to latex condoms and don’t like the feel of the others so I always go bareback. As far as STDs, I have been swinging for twelve years and have had many partners and have never had an STD.

This is a very interesting topic. Jess and I hate condoms. The bareback gangbang sounds hot.

Well, I don't know about your definition, but something happened to me once that I would consider an "accidental creampie." I met with a friend "on her way to work" one morning and was eating her when I discovered that her husband had filled her the night before. She was far from being empty and I got a creampie. Normally, I would not consider eating a creampie; but, I did not stop when I made the discovery. She was already quite turned on and I did not want to let her down. Did she know? I can't say. For me, though, it was an accident!

Here is some interesting statistics about size: Percent Length 0.2 percent 3.75 inches 0.3 percent 4 inches 0.2 percent 4.25 inches 1.7 percent 4.5 inches 0.8 percent 4.75 inches 4.2 percent 5 inches 4.4 percent 5.25 inches 10.7 percent 5.5 inches 8 percent 5.75 inches 23.9 percent 6 inches 8.8 percent 6.25 inches 14.3 percent 6.5 inches 5.7 percent 6.75 inches 9.5 percent 7 inches 1.8 percent 7.25 inches 2.9 percent 7.5 inches 1 percent 7.75 inches 1 percent 8 inches 0.3 percent 8.25 inches 0.3 percent 8.5 inches 0.1 percent 8.75 inches 0.1 percent 9 inches So the average penis length is 6.16 inches. The average girth is 4.84 inches. More recent studies have produced the following results: A sample of 60 men studied by researchers at the University of California at San Francisco determined that the average size of their erect penises was 5.1 inches long and 4.9 inches in girth. A Brazilian urologist who measured 150 men reported that the average size of their erections was 5.7 inches long and 4.7 inches in girth.

What 18" guys? No - they are not real... And if they are, they are very lonely men.

6" - 7" in length. More than that is just too much and it becomes a cervix banger unless he's careful. Girth is more important, but even to much there can be to much, especially with anal. Mr. WS is the perfect combination of both length and girth for both vaginal and anal. Mrs. WS

I have had varying sizes and I have to admit for me I'm not too thrilled about being with a guy that is too small (though I would certainly never say anything to him). I like a little size, but don't ask me how much because I have never measured one Sometimes is is all about the angle too. It just kind of hits the right spot.

Interesting. Does anyone prefer a different size, length or girth than their husband's cock? Would anybody be brave enough to admit that?

7 in and about as round as a coke can . Just joking... but girth sure makes the man for me

Ditto. I would prefer average length but... Give me girth or it's like giving me nothing at all

"That said, though the risks associated with unprotected sex can be high -- they are statistically no higher than driving your car or smoking and they are lower than some extreme sports" So true. Well said. As Michael Fumento said: - Author Michael Fumento, in his book The Myth of Heterosexual AIDS, offers substantial evidence that white, middle-class, non-IV drug abuser heterosexuals are in less danger of contracting AIDS thru non-anal, sexual intercourse than they are of dying from shark attacks, being hit by lightning, or accidentally drowning in the bathtub. The book is very well referenced and documented. The book was reviewed by the Journal of the American Medical Assn as "the best single source available to enable heterosexual persons to assess their personal risk." Very best wishes, Paul