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The question of what act is the most intimate took me to thinking about our recent vacation with friends who are all in the lifestyle. Our vacation was at a very popular resort that was neither lifestyle nor nudity centered, just a resort that people go to relax. Other than the group we were with we kept our secret arrangements to ourselves. I was totally intimate with each of the men and one of the women, spending a night alone with each, including a night alone with my own husband. On each of those nights I had intimate relationship, loving and affectionate and completely different. The sexual acts were similar with each man yet no two nights were the same. The intimacy you have is dependent on the partner you are with, each partner finding their own way of sharing. My intimacy with a partner cannot be duplicated by others as the interaction and feelings between partners vary. The way you touch, hug, kiss or have sex is intimate to the person you are with. To that point the intimacy I had with the woman I spent a night with is no less from the intimacy I had with the men yet obviously the sex was different. I can’t answer for the others, for me the least intimate nights were the ones where I was with two others, both a man and woman or two men. Those nights were very sexual, I just would never label them intimate. Now for what I am thinking is my strangest takeaway the most intimate night was the least sexual one, it was with the person I have the most sexual and intimate person in my life, my husband. I will repeat, Intimacy is not an act, it’s a closeness between people sharing affection and feelings. It’s a connection mentally as well as physically. I have learned over the years to allow myself the intimacy I enjoy with others without demanding my partner to have the equal commitment. My husband understands my intimate feelings for others, without him feeling jealousy. What I love is appreciation of my happiness and enjoyment I get from the connections I can make with what I call lovers.

Back in our days of swing clubs condoms were the rule - as they still are should we attend any event where random hookups are possible. But these days we mostly play at home with select partners, and we mostly play bareback. We require (and provide) a recent STD panel up front for potential playmates and this has served us well.

This is what is so transformational. It is well-written. It does align with what the community has been saying. And it is utterly non-judgmental. That is not to say that nudism or the LS are any less "alternative" ways to live. But we seem to have passed through the Puritan and prurient responses to authentic curiosity and rational discourse. In our view, that's extraordinary.

Between 2002 and ~ 2013 I was a young buck for about 10 different couples. 6 of them wanted it bareback from the beginning and creampies were important. I was thrilled, because my first 2 couples were "condoms always" types. Of the 4 couples that wanted condoms, one of those changed by the 2nd play date and wanted it bareback. There's a few different surveys on here and one I recently saw on Kasidie that keep showing about the same stats. It's neat to see that on different years, and even on a different website, the stats come out pretty much the same. About 25% are condoms ALWAYS, on multiple surveys. (I've seen one at 35% and one at 45% that asked primarily males). About 12% are BAREBACK ONLY, or hit the road Jack.... The rest are in the middle being the type to use condoms if requested, or ~20% go bare after months of knowing someone, or..... a few go bare after a couple fucks with a condom first for a couple of weeks. The largest group with the most members is that flexible group that uses condoms situationally. I'd lean towards going bareaback with most couples, depending on how frequently she gets with new brand new guys and if testing is at least every 6 months. HPV is that pesky sleeper sti though. I'm getting vaccinated, and I hope most women will too.

It's up to the couple. You make the rules and as long as you are both communicating with each other and not violating those rules, you can have whatever limits you are both comfortable with. What causes divorce? Usually a breakdown of communication and trust.

Reading Chicup's post "Reading between the profile lines..." about V-safe being code of bareback play got me thinking. If a couple/single admits to playing bareback as an option do you avoid them due to STI concerns even if you only play safe? If they allude to it, as described in Chicup's post, do avoid them for the same concerns? Do you bail on a couple that states they play safe in their profile, but when you meet, all of a sudden it is optional? What if it becomes optional after getting to know you better? We have seen a few couple profiles that say they only play bareback, usually due to latex concerns, but I don't usually buy that, since there are condemns that are latex free. We have seen 2-3 more that just state that is how they prefer to play. And we have meet a good many that state they only play safe in their profile, but bring up that bareback is an option once we meet. The vast majority we have met do not use any protection during oral. So where do YOU draw the line?

I found this very interesting article by an author named Mark Manson, 'Your Honest-To-God Guide to STDs.' It’s at https://markmanson.net/std-guide It’s a good read, and I found it to be reasonable. (I don’t promise it’s accurate to the nth degree, though.) He talks about the various STDs, their effects on you if you get it, and a few statistics. Then he gives his RAW score, an *average* of how many different partners you would need to have *unprotected* penis in vagina sex with to catch that disease. Here it is: CHLAMYDIA - 36 partners GONORRHEA - 179 partners SYPHILIS - 1,841 partners HPV - 4 partners GENITAL HERPES - 13 partners HIV - 1,250 partners Now, I’m not advocating unprotected sex here. In fact, my advice is to wear a condom each and every time. For example, the risk of catching gonorrhea is low - but you could beat the odds and catch it the first time! The RAW score is just an average. Let the debate begin. Play nice, kiddies.

Around the same time as our teenager 😄 We were about 40

Nicely put @Shore2Please. If intimacy was the same with everyone then swinging wouldn't exist, In the words of Carl Jung: "The meeting of two personalities is like the contact of two chemical substances: if there is any reaction, both are transformed."

Spot on. Sex is an act, mostly physical…..but much more enjoyable when there is some level of connection beyond the strict physical act. Many in the LS will develop very close friendships, even some closer relationships and with each there is a level of intimacy that would be particular and defined by each individual. As such it would not and should not affect or diminish any level of intimacy with anyone else.

In my Catholic schooling we were taught that our conscience is a God-installed guide to what is right and wrong. But beware, if you ignore it, it can be worn down and no longer work. When I started having sex with the man who would become my husband while maintaining my relationship with my ex-fiancé (they both knew), it immediately felt absolutely right. Like, shared by two men was what I was supposed to be. What ultimately felt wrong was my jealousy of wanting them to be monogamous with me. It was hard, but when I got over my jealousy, life was better. For them certainly, but also for me. In retrospect, my sin wasn't the premarital sex and adultery, it was the jealousy and not opening.

I've never thought of it that way. Daniela believes rather that she is stealing a part of him. This is all kind of deep for me, but I know that her freedom has improved her and makes her happy.

What's remarkable is how casual/mainstream it seems.

During swing play, he can cum inside me but with a condom. Or he can cum outside, anywhere on me. For my SO and bf, they can cum inside on safe days. And of course, in mouth or bum.

My bf fucks hard too and he seemed satisfied and stopped looking for other partners 😈

We are a sort-of throuple, and a few times my wife and her bf have been kind enough to time their lovemaking with when i arrive home from work. A few times I have walked in to hear moans and the bed rocking upstairs! What a treat to stand outside your bedroom door and watch another man rock your wife's world!!

TRUTH! I can fit two dicks easy peasy lemon squeezy!

I've been asking this a lot lately, he started swapping with very good friends three years ago and it has been fantastic due to a strong connection developed over ten years and we are extremely compatible sexually with each others spouses. I like it rough and Adam likes it rough, Julie likes it slow and passionate and my husband likes it slow and passionate. Then to top it off Julie and I have developed a pretty strong Sapphic game with each other. So we've always had fun, they were selling their house at the beginning of March and their new house couldn't close till mid April so we told them to take our guest room instead of getting an apartment for two months. They moved in but then the quarantine hit and PA shutdown real estate as a non essential business, by the time it could close the owners had lost their jobs and couldn't get their own mortgage thru so they backed out. So now they need to find a new place, but we've been swapping regularly cause we all know we are safe living in the same house. And its gotten much deeper emotionally. I think we probably qualify as Poly now but we haven't defined it.

I have to wonder about the concept of equal. I tend to think in terms of sufficient and satisfying. These vary as work load and life vary.

When Laura and I were swinging, our "play-dates" were all about fun. We laughed, joked, and giggled. Laura was particularly adept at making the most audacious remarks, putting us all into hysterics. It wasn't an atmosphere that fostered something serious like love. Once, while doing a well-endowed fellow, she said, "Ohmigawd, Darling! I've felt cocks in my throat before, but never from this direction!"

Congrats! I'm happy it is working out well for you all. I'm also a little anxious as certainly my relationship is going in that direction too.

Couples I have helped have taken this approach. I'm grateful the first couple had done their homework and explained how this all worked.

Probably doesn’t know because they just joined today and this is their first post. Seems odd to post a story like this as your first post, IMO.

As you know, I/we in our poly family have been there, done that and it has been good for us adults and the children. The mother's. Neither, put down "father unknown".

We are a poly family of three women and two men, and children. It has worked well for us.

Blue, 'polyamory' includes the idea of 'love.' At least one of the persons in love is in love with another person. That implies a deep vanilla-based connection. Are she and your husband dating without you? Even innocent things like lunches and happy hours, even if no sex is included? If this isn't happening, I don't think there's anything to worry about here. It's more like BFFs. Having said that, if you and/or your husband is uncomfortable, time to back away a least a bit.

There are over 100 viruses associated with HPV. Aside from cervical cancer untreated HPV in the mucus membranes of the nose, throat, & rectum may eventually evolve into cancer. Its not certain, but there is a possibility. Also anal intercourse is not necessary for the HPV viruses to create rectal warts/infection. Finally note that any warts on the body are HPV related viruses. Best to have a dermatologist remove them at the earliest opportunity. This includes 'flat warts' which can be similar to non HPV Keretosis on the skin. A simple 'freeze can remove many warts. Assorted chemical treatments work well too. Cauterization seems to be out of fashion for most warts, tho my dermatologist says she still does it in certain cases. Since skin cancers can be very invasive & deadly a annual visit to the dermatologist for inspection should be standard, and wart removal part of the visit.

I agree with those who have posted about HPV. The unfortunate thing is it really only impacts women. Men infect women but they themselves never really know because of a lack of a test for them. Time for that to change. Lol HPV is highly sexually transmittable and 90% of us, men and women will get it. But only women will get cervical cancer. It is a terribly scary thing to go through as a woman to be told you have an abnormal pap and go through the weeks of wondering and testing to find out. Condoms don’t prevent it but lessens the risk. Oral, genital touching and penetration all can give you HPV. My sister just went through the nightmare and knows I am in the lifestyle she was quick to let me know. So my advice... always use a condom, limit play with only those you really like and trust, teach your men they transmit HPV and are a big part of the problem and ladies the biggest of all, get annual Pap smears. It is a known fact that the more sexually partners you have the more likely you are to get and pass on HPV. And this virus can lay dormant in a woman’s cervix for decades and then decide to rear its ugly head. So please be aware. That is my 2 cents worth.

The bigger question is how many partners have your swing partners been with. We have been with primarily one couple and a few times with others, about eight partners. I think we are the least active of all of these couples. The numbers multiply exponentially as if each of the people we play with have played with a dozen others and if those couples played with even more people and so on and so on. I am checked once a year in an annual gyn exam and so far nothing has shown up. I wonder if we would be warned if someone we played with was positive.

It's not even an average. It's a number pulled out of thin air to sell books. I am hardly an alarmist, but I think the most positive thing I can say about the "statistics" (I use the term generously here), on that site, is that if he ever took a statistics course, he is owed a refund.

We only have condomless sex with our closest friends, people that we trust for years,in more that 7 years since we started swinging I have only had 3 men penetrated me without a condom that is including my husband. We feel pretty safe compared to many single people living "regular sexual lives"

"No prejudice against anyone's preferences" Are you kidding?? You should "pre judge" those who engage in reckless activities such as employing hookers, bi/gay anal, strangulation, scat, IV drug users. That's how you keep your wife and you safe and healthy. I've heard time after time that "in the lifestyle, we shouldn't judge". I think that's a bunch of crap! We wouldn't engage in a random, unprotected gang bang and we wouldn't play with someone who did. Are we judging the receptacle? You bet. We wouldn't engage in sex with a guy who wanted to butt fuck both of us. Are we judging him?? You bet! All human decisions are based on judgements of some kind. Why shouldn't we judge the people being considered for the most intimate activities and decisions we make?

We have had success finding 'unicorns' who are in sexless marriages. Basically, they are horny and their husbands can't really perform so we fit the bill. We meet them together and play together, but I know a few women that would be interested in a one on one with me. They like that we are attached so that there is no 'deepening' of the relationship.

As a bi guy, it's a MUST to wear protection until trust and honesty is established....at which point, I LOVE barebacking.

We have been on the receiving end of a couple of abrupt bail-outs recently from couples who said they would not play with anyone who had ever played bareback. I made it clear in both cases that we will be happy to use condoms if anybody wants, and also said that we often insist on condom use. But because I admitted that we had gone bareback before (with couples that we knew and trusted), we were unceremoniously dumped at the curb (figuratively speaking). Of course anybody is free to have any rules they like, but this particular formulation of "playing safe" strikes me as being not very well thought out. After all, these people were not insisting on the use of condoms or dental dams for oral- so they were apparently OK with some potential exposure to disease. And we were ready to use condoms with them. For a new-to-us couple, we would insist anyway! It was hard not to take some slight offense. After all, we wash regularly, eat our vegetables, and are kind to the elderly! I had no idea that having ever gone without the raincoat would forever mark us as unclean.

After seeing a couple that I know to have HIV come to a party and almost seduce some of the couples there, I will never go without a condom. Even if me and the couple have played before. No no no. If you're not going to cover it up, then yes I will avoid you like the plague.

We play safe. We would love to find a couple or 2 that we could play bareback with, but that is a huge trust to put in someone and we haven't met them yet. It would be nice to find them so DD can live out her fantasy of having multiple men cum in her consecutively and enjoy that full feeling. Hopefully someday that will happen but not holding our breath.

There are several men that I have sexual relations with that enter me without a condom. Except for these guys, everyone else wears a condoms. It's a pity though since part of the sexual act that I really enjoy is when the man is releasing his sperm inside of me. I still feel good even with a condom since I can still feel him pulsating and know that he is releasing his sperm at that very moment, but knowing that the sperm is actually going to stay inside of me will normally bring me over to the edge of an orgasm.

You can ask him if you want to, but I don't think it's going to help. If it's nothing, he'll say it's nothing. If it is something, he'll say it's nothing. After all, he didn't say anything about it before, did he? That's probably the best choice.

My advice would be to stay away from him for two reasons. 1-He didn't feel the need to mention it. You would think he would have because it was so obvious. 2-Without testing there is no way to know for sure.

Run! Run like a deer!

There have been many "should's" in this thread and several "if you don't you're stupid's". But there has been no discussion of the actual risk of HIV from bareback. What is the risk of meeting an HIV infected person in the lifestyle? What is the risk of getting infected with HIV from a single fuck? HIV is not a death sentence. Some in this thread seem to be in the dark ages regarding their attitudes. It certainly is a most serious infection, but no longer a death sentence. Of course life itself is a death sentence... We are barebackers. Sex with a condom is not great sex for us. We wouldn't swing if we expected only fair to good sex, and that describes condom sex for us. We don't swing often. We haven't done parties or more than two other couples together. We're low key in our swinging.

Some people prefer to call it a playmate, some a girlfriend, some whatever. My wife calls her favored guy a boyfriend, and it doesn't bother me. I called my preferred gal a playmate. Sadly mine is moving out of state soon so I'll need to find another. We've had the best luck with other couples who are open to separate play. My wife's boyfriend is a hubby, and while I've been with his wife, we dont play as frequently as my wife and her boyfriend do. We all text or talk with each other every few days or so, it's pretty cool actually. My current playmate is a divorcée who is currently single, which actually seems to be the common type of single female that I've encountered. As for finding a gal playmate, what I've done is just meeting people at events and going from there. And if you find one that "clicks" with you, maybe you will play more frequently and there you go.

I have a serious relationship with my friend's wife, but he doesn't have any girlfriend and he doesn't need... We all happy, especially me

We go bareback when we are playing with our regular group of six couples. We have all known each other for many years and we all trust each other to use condoms when we are playing outside the group.

Jess and I bareback with trusted playmates.

We have gone bareback a time or two. For me, I have to know the couple really well for that. It's just my preference. MR BDC doesn't like condoms. However, he does use them if the couple/woman prefers. I am not a pregnancy concern since I have had my tubes all but yanked out. Mr. BDC is fertile though. So, for us condoms are more of a birth control than an STD factor. As far as the STD factor, since the people we have played with, we have known really well, it wasn't a big deal. That sounds kinda relaxed but it really isn't for us. However, we still get STD testing done every 6 months just to stay on that groove. We made it a habit and it has stuck with us. As for asking or being asked for documentation. We can always provide it for anyone who is interested if and only if we are hitting it off and looks promising to play. We don't ask everyone we chat with or meet to provide that to us since it is very personal.

We are familiar with several couples who make this a requirement for their potential playmates. Just be upfront with other couples about this issue, and be prepared to show your own tests. This is very true, so whether a couple decides to swap bareback, swap with condoms, or not swap at all, every couple has to decide the level of risk they are willing to take in this lifestyle.

Not each and every one of them.

Bareback is pretty much a must for the type of fun Baremama & I are into. She usually runs a potential partner through the grinder as she gets to know them before ever allowing them to join us for FFM pleasures. ~~bare~~