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We're only getting one side here so it is a little difficult to really dissect things. It would be interesting to read a write-up from her. It sounds like counseling is needed. You have your view (above). She has hers. Somewhere in the middle is the truth. Why is she so upset about the oral you gave to a man? Why did she flip about the lack of condom use when you supposedly talked about not wearing them. I doubt she will ever tell you. A third party, mediator, may be able to get to the root of it. It does sound like your lifestyle days are over unless you get to the root of the problem. And the way your post reads - you're "bored as hell", "things are dull", etc - I'd lay money that your marriage won't survive. Find a counselor, quickly.

As has been stated, I too am sorry you and her are going through such a rough patch. I agree that this might have a lot more to do with her and him than you and him. Even beyond him as her's. Maybe she had really deep feelings for him. Maybe there was something about her and him seeing each other without you and now that's blown. We really don't know, but I sense that she is shameful or guilty or maybe looking to blow up the marriage, even if unconsciously. The only solution here is to get counseling. Maybe separate to start if that helps her work through her feelings. But, the two of you are not likely to really get to the bottom of this alone. Sounds like you both have what many would consider a wonderful life in terms of family, work, income, and add to that adventurous spirits for play, recreation and discovery both in and out of the bedroom. Feels like there is certainly something worth fighting for. Wish you both the best.

We jumped in one toe at a time. It started by us talking about our past sexual experiences (interesting and sexy as well) and moved on to talking about our fantasies. as trust built, we just kept talking and asked if we wanted to try and make some of the fantasies come true. We kept talking and developed our own rules, limits and boundaries, even though we were both 'nervous' (for lack of a better word) as to what it could cause to our relationship. More talk and we set up a profile on SLS and started meeting people for dinners, just to see if there was any interest. There were LOTS of dinners that went nowhere other than a fun night out with another couple and some sexy talks as we exchanged experiences and the like. Eventually, we met another couple that we 'clicked' with and we started 'dating' them. We all talked and set common rules and modified them as we found them unnecessary (or just silly...we started with the 'no kissing' rule that didn't last very long) Next came same room sex, then soft swaps, then vacations, concerts, weekends, etc together. It has been an amazing experience! Nothing like having another couple that you are best friends with...AND you can get naked with. You don't need to jump into the deep end. You can just wade into the water and get used to the temperature. If it gets too cold, you can just as easily get back out. One rule that we have always had was if wither of us wanted to stop, we both would stop...never looking back, never asking questions. Since this is more than either of us thought we would experience, we are SO FAR ahead of the game and so much closer than we ever could imagine that it would be okay to just stop (but that hasn't happened...it might some day, but not yet). The only 'sad' thing is that the other couple that we had been dating for so many years finally had to move further away. Now instead of being able to get together as much as we liked, it's become a once every several months thing, but sometimes life intervenes. Just remember to always keep talking and don't rush things...you have your entire lives ahead so enjoy the trip as much as the destination. Good luck with whatever you decide and let us know how you are doing no matter what it is.

You will meet all kinds. We have met couples that couldn't hold a conversation because they couldn't put down Tic Toc. I don't mean young people either, these were in there mid 50's. I am 62 and swapped with people in their 20's all the way to 70's. It's all about personality, if the other couple is boring, then entertain them! Make them moan instead of talking about work or sports. Get filthy with them, lick their asshole or piss all over them. Give them something to talk about!

We can relate. Age range is important. Too young and they think they're God's gift, too old and they want to plop on the sofa and watch football. We find maturity, fitness and activity levels are important. Also, and I'm bound to get some hate for this, we found we had more success with black guys than white guys. Just sayin'.

Speaking as a therapist, I agree 100% There is more going on than the LS part of things.

First Friends is too much work for us. We are meeting to play. We have friends. We don't mine swinging buddies we are friendly with, but that is not the reason we are here.

CH, not enjoyable when fun recreational sex suddenly blows up in your face. I’m sorry this has happened to you and your wife. You asked for input; here’s mine: Assuming your description of the incident is accurate, your wife’s response — particularly beyond the immediate aftermath — seems out of proportion to the degree of your alleged offense. Greatly out of proportion. This suggests to me that what is troubling her is something other than, or in addition to, what she’s telling (and likely herself) is the problem. My suggestion is that the two of you do some couples counseling/therapy with a lifestyle-friendly therapist. These days they aren’t difficult to find. And if you live in a rural area far from a medium-sized or large metro area many therapists offer video sessions. (Google something like "lifestyle-friendly therapist near me". We live 20 minutes from the closest grocery store and when I did that search just now it gave me several options less than an hour away as well as others accessible via Zoom.)

Well the truth is nobody, but her can know how she is feeling about all this! Until you can get the communication back on track without insults I sure as hell would not be bringing other people into the bedroom. Did you communicate to her before the male bi experience that you were bi? If not maybe she does not feel your communication was as good as she thought it was in the first place. She might be like my lady who is bi herself, but finds male on male activity to be a big turn off which is okay with me, because I feel the same way. Or maybe she feels you took away the thing that is hers in the lifestyle by playing with the other guy? I really have no idea, because I am not her.

It is wonderful every time that you tell us the story, each with a little more context or detail. It immerses me in the situation and makes me think about the experience and how you felt. You jumped in with both feet, taking a lover. The next morning you saw your husband in bed with his wife... In my mind, it seems as though there is still so much to share; for instance, what was going through your mind as your husband looked at you for the first time afterwards? As I have often said before, I find these situations romantic, compelling,thought provoking.

I can't speak to the specifics of you or your wife (are there pictures of her on your profile, I didn't look). I will suggest that guys sometimes have hesitation being flirty with another man's wife in person at first. This is because maybe he is waiting to see how his wife likes the other husband first before getting too far. Many times the wife makes the go-or-no decision. Another thought is the man isn't real comfortable about what kind of discussion your wife likes. I've found that some women immediately put up the stop sign if you use certain language (e.g. "cock" instead of penis). It sounds ridiculous but I've seen it. I know when we meet another couple the discussion is never separate. It is a group discussion with everyone involved, not a breakout session with two swapped partners. We approach swinging as a group, looking to have MFM, FMF, MFMF, etc not just a couple swap. We're great together, swinging is the way we experience things we can't do as a couple. Breaking apart, separate rooms, etc isn't our thing. So for us, there is no trading seats. We all sit together, usually at an intimate table in a bar/pub. We chat together, we get a feel of the other couple together. Our approach may be what you are experiencing with the couples who don't swap seats and couple up. Maybe more screening up front would ensure your approach to swinging is what the couple you're meeting enjoys.

Years ago on a vacation cruise we ran into a situation like yours, meeting a good looking fit couple that we went to an island beach with. The difference was the beach was clothing optional, a thing my husband and I discussed beforehand knowing we would never see these people again. It’s funny how something that we wouldn’t do at a beach close to home we now did with a few couples we just met. If you are like me you spent days shopping before your vacation looking for that perfect bathing suit that hid what you wanted to hide and made you feel sexy. So here I was exposing my self with nothing covering up flaws to strangers. Sure none of us are perfect but in our small group no one was too bad. That night with a little too much alcohol, I’ll always blame the alcohol, we and one of our new friends decided to swap spouses. I still joke they got me drunk to convince me, I know it’s my excuse if it went wrong. I went to his cabin, she went with my husband to our cabin. Being naked to a man on a beach is not the same as him undressing you to have sex, for me it came easier. Alcohol ease? Alone with him it went easy without much thought. As many times as I have repeated this first time I’m amazed how I enjoyed the night and how I enjoy reliving it each time I tell the story. What I thought was a one time with a stranger has become a years long more than friendship. People say the first time is the hardest, I say the first time was the best of many great times.

I don't really enjoy DPs but I participate from time to time. But you're right that cumming too soon is a problem. One time my buddy came in her asshole and another time a guy pulled out and came on her ass. Both times I got hit with friendly fire and lost my erection. Too close for comfort I guess.

It can be difficult for people to discuss, shall we say, taboo subjects with other couples in public. If you are in a bar perhaps he didn't want everyone to know his wife loves gang bangs? We have found that couples that want to be "friends first" tend to want to talk about football, work, TV, etc, and not sex. This has always puzzled us because, we are meeting you to, yes, enjoy your company, but mostly to see if we are sexually compatible, attracted and so on. We very much like to share some of our experiences, both good and bad, with a new couple we meet. Its part of the turn on.

This is exactly right! I have seen couples fall apart right after the kids move out. I say renew it with this couple, have as good time as before.

So which would you satisfy 2 men, or a man and a woman? Has Claire or Lora ever put a strap on and DP ed you with Red or Dave?

Yes and no. We have met new friends with our participation expanding each time we meet. Lin has never been a big anus fan and would at times give me the pleasure of trying with mixed results. With our new found fun it looks like everything is open for experimentation including taking it in the butt and since we read these comments and many more things we never discussed. Lin read this post and asked me my thoughts and I said if she wanted I was willing to play with a penis that close to mine. The other night at our new friends place Linda said she wants to do a double. She pointed to one friend and said she wanted him. Now I shrugged my shoulders and said let’s go. From my vantage he looks about my size down there possibly thicker I think. My thought then was I thought I would watch her with two of the men, think I wasn’t fully in with being with another dick near. Linda insisted. I was told to let Linda take me in while she was on top, Cowgirl, and he would do the work. It’s not as easy as it sounds, I tried to stay still while the other wife got us prepared and Linda’s butt lubed. After a few attempts I felt him in her. I didn’t think I was going to feel that. I know this crazy but I popped almost as soon as he was in. I tried staying hard while he was sliding in and out, nature said no. I got out of her and he continued for a few minutes. About an hour later Linda shouted out who wants to double fuck her. Wow. Again I shrugged and said go for it. What ended up was a triple penetration, me in her mouth. I think I have to work on control for the next time.

Which one would you want to try first? The missionary DP looks over the top. (so to speak)

Update about the men in our group, they are getting much better with DP in a variety of forms. DVP is almost always after many many many times of being penetrated, multi orgasms, lots of oral and play, you know when we are all loosie goosy. DPAV? DAVP? What is the correct acronym for that? DP one anal and one vaginal - lol. I can't remember. This is what happens when my husband is traveling without me and I am sex starved. Anyway, DAVP still produces the Biggest Most MultiOrgasmic body/mind altering transcendence.

When we do 3sums and gangbangs, me wife always wants DPV

I understand what you're saying. When the couples we play with are doing an MFM or anything where two guys are close, we feel comfortable with the saying that "It's not gay if there's a woman involved." It always seemed strange to me that I feel my straightest, most manly and alpha when my wife and I are fucking after having been with someone else; the reclaiming makes me feel very powerful.

If at first you don't succeed......

It sure helps to have a longer guy on top, is our find. But it can work. Sometimes. It is not always.

My wife and I attempted it with one of her favorite swing partners. I'm average length, but quite a bit thicker than average. The other guy was a bit longer, and slightly thinner. We couldn't get it to work. We tried for quite a while too. We concluded that length was key, and we didn't have it for a DVP.

An update on this. I recently did another DP with my GF and buddy and it was far better and more comfortable than any time before. We were all definitely tipsy and I had most of my clothes on throughout it. My buddy had her sucking his dick while she was on my lap then was fucking her while she was leaning over me. The whole thing felt very much like a cuckold scenario which isn't our usual thing but it was hot so what the hell. I was going with the flow and didn't think I was going to have the opportunity to join in until he was fucking her from behind over my lap and instructed her to take out my cock and suck it. At this point he's pounding her from behind and pushing her head up and down on my cock. Eventually he instructs her to ride me. At this point I unbutton my pants and pull them down just a little bit but still have my dick out through my underwear, My buddy tries to come around to the side for a blowjob but doesn't work out so great. Then he goes into fingering her asshole and I know exactly where this is headed. Eventually he lubes up, asks me to spread her cheeks and he goes in. I'm not sure what the exact reason is but it just felt more comfortable and enjoyable. I think the main reason is because we weren't all fully naked. Maybe it sounds crazy but I think having some clothes on made the DP more enjoyable for me. I had said previously that I disliked DPs because I didn't like feeling that close to another guy. Even though we're technically still close and our dicks are close when inside my GF it just had a different vibe that made it more relaxing and less paranoid.

Yes Mam to THAT!!!

With anal, longer is better compared to vaginal where too long can be a problem.

I absolutely love DP with the right people, you know the ones who know what the heck they are doing and how to do it well! I by far have the most explosive orgasms when DP is done well. My husband likes doing it in most positions but of course says it's best when you are the one doing the pumping. Though we have discovered that when there are 3 guys with 2 doing DP on me the 3rd can keep us quite entertained and the combination of it all can be extremely pleasurable for us all. My husband wanted to add, that when just laying there focus on what is taking place, picture it, feel it, imagine it, and realize exactly what is taking place - that he does enjoy, knowing that I am getting pleasured beyond my wildest dreams. Oh and then there are my breast bouncing up and down or moving forward and back, the enjoyment on my face, in my eyes, and all the screaming, hollering, yelling, all the sex talk it produces from me.

In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is.

This an old thing, nothing to do with swinging I was in HS when a teammate I was good friends with asked if I wanted to fuck this certain girl who was home from college. She asked him to ask me. I thought he was full of shit and he said really. She had fucked plenty and it was just her thing. How could I turn that down so we made plans to go to her house after her parents went to work. I knew who she was only through other guys. She said she knew me and heard stories. I can’t imagine who she heard from and what she heard. I wasn’t comfortable her and being nude with my friend. I remember being afraid of some disease also. She controlled both of us and we just went along. She knew what she wanted and I had no idea how we were going to work it out. Somehow we managed and I busted a nut in a minute. Most likely she wanted more than that.

I meant holding on tight to each other, like the bottom guy holding or bracing me at the waist while the top guy has to hold tight on me or the bottom guy's back for support. We all ended up sweaty but it worked better than doing it standing up prior to that, due to the height differences.

Another variant: with another couple, I went into his wife's pussy missionary and he into my ass doggy. Some weeks later, we switched, he in my wife's cunt and I buggered him. It was the women's idea. It was ok both ways, but we never did it again. The only gay stuff I've done has been at the girls urging.

Reverse cowgirl seems a little easier but cowgirl works for us as well.

It slides out. Just tell the top guy to slow down a bit and do a group hug while pounding :-D

This is also how I do it. I won't let the bottom guy move or do any thrusting movement and just let the one in front to do the f*cking. All 3 of us ended cumming all at the same time.

We did cow girl with me in her vagina and we tried reverse cow girl with me in her ass and him in her vagina. I think legs got in the way. So we are going to try it agin soon and see if we can accomplish it. Do you have any advice on other positions?

Kim liked doing a reverse cowgirl with one of us in her ass, she would then lay back on the bottom guy, then the top guy would start fucking her pussy. it was a real odd position, butt she enjoyed it.

I have done alot of DP, both with my wife and the other woman when we meet other couples. Usually we do regular DP, but we have also tried DVP when we had a threesome with a Male friend. I prefer vaginal/anal with me in the ass, my absolute favorite thing to do when we swing, but my wife really enjoyed DVP also, so we will do that again. We are both really into anal sex, and a couple of weeks ago we tried DAP with a dildo, and that actually worked, so we are gonna try that with 2 real cocks some day.

We tried that 2 weekends ago and it didn’t go that good I kept piping out of my wife’s vagina as he was trying to push in her ass. But there where other positions that we didn’t try so next time we will try the other.

Have you tried the King of Clubs position? Both guys on their back with their legs scissored and cocks next to each other. The woman straddles both cocks from above.

Sounds hot. Never tried it but looks like a bucket list item. Sounds like rhythm is the key.

Those same girls won't do any DP. Cause sluts do DP. Now me, I like DP, it's amazing and I passed the Slut status threshold a long time ago.

Okay, that I don't gt at all: "I'll take one in my mouth and one in my pussy -- or one in my ass and one in my pussy but there's no way I'm taking 2 in my pussy. I'm no slut, you know." ???

So I've had the pleasure of being DPV a couple times and its fantastic once you get everyone in. Never felt more stretched ever and orgasmed so easily which is not my norm. Big dick on the bottom, woman takes him cowgirl then lays on him, 2nd guy enters from behind and fucks her doggystyle. It feels best if you alternate thrusts, so you are pulling outwards as he is pushing in, and you are pushing in deeper while he is pulling outwards. Do not actually pull out till everyone has cum.

The courage to successfully pull off a good DP or DVP. The insecure ones are the ones where the guy goes soft and the gal dries up. Not a pleasant thing, this is why the 'level' of play is artistic but only right if done without self-doubt. I learned that my wife still likes the occasional gangbang. which I knew already. Dave and Laura

I have seen her with four guys taking he completely over the top. They were gentle but gave her about 90 minutes of savage attention. I was with a single woman while they put her through every possible position except double anal which is over the top. We are in this for the skin game and simply don’t get jealous. Watching her have multiple orgasms with four amazing and attentive men was amazing. I loved watching her get into the role and give them back everything she could. Stroking away just thinking about it!

How do you feel about two other cocks inside your baby while yours is in another woman? When that happened to me I honestly was in mental overload.

Ah, now I understand. But we subscribe to the philosophy that if there's a woman involved that it's merely incidental.

My wife told me that when we met that she had an insatiable appetite, which not only intrigued me, but matched my own sexual energy. It seems that several of my past girlfriends liked Double penetration. But Laura seems to Really like multiple cocks in her and was one of the few that I have fucked that love double vaginal and even double anal penetration, which is not easy as some of you may know. I have never minded another cock rubbing mine and we both cum. But what Laura likes is that she wants us both to clean up her pussy and share the cum with her. The secret of a successful DP or DVP is get out of the head and enjoy the pleasure. We have had so many couples that are not ready for this level of play due to some insecurities or jealousies. If you can let go of your fears and have fun fucking a hot slut like Laura, it is really easy. My best friend and I have got into an easy rhythm together and know what Laura likes and when. Just keep practicing and it can be a great experience. And yes, lots of oil all over our bodies helps. Dave and Laura