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Daniela and I kiss other partners, but the most exciting thing is for one or both of us to be fucking someone else, but kissing one another. We've also had situations where we fucking each other, but kissing someone else. I don't like that as much.

Decades ago, after an alfresco lunch and on the cusp of beginning an (ill-advised) relationship, my future lover and I shared a kiss — not a tonsil-hockey version but much more than a social buss. "Kissing is more intimate than sex," she said as our heads pulled back. The sex, which began a week or so later, turned out to be extremely hot, but the intimacy of of our brief romantic relationship began with that kiss. Now in our 70s and together more than 35 years, my wife and I still have sex three or four times a week. Despite our familiarity (or because of it) the sex is still extremely satisfying. But even laying naked in bed, neither of us begins to get aroused until we start kissing. In a different context I’ve had some ENM experiences with no-kissing partners that included orgasms and generally come away with the feeling that for me it would have been better if kissing would have been part of our engagement.

There are posts here about couples who have a "No Kissing" rule. I've realized that I enjoy seeing kissing, as deep as they want. Any others? Kissing isn't sex, but it makes it more intense and passionate, something I like doing and seeing.

Back when we started, we had the 'no kissing' rule thinking sex was just sex but kissing was more 'intimate'. That rule lasted one night. We were worried since we were just starting out but quickly realized that, while we originally thought it was a necessary rule, it wasn't...there wasn't any jealousy or uncomfortable feelings. That rule probably would have ended even quicker, but one of the few remaining rules that the do have is to not chance rules while we are in a sexual situation. In looking back it really was a silly rule, but at the time we felt it was better to have than to not have it until we knew it wasn't going to be an issue.

On this occasion my friend was not near finished when my wife got off his cock and sat on mine, going from his to mine keeping us both on the edge but keeping that hot dirty sex going for aslong as she could

Everyone has their line in the sand and it varies greatly from couple to couple or solo/single. Kissing is probably the second most often rule with condom use being first. We have discussed this at gatherings often within our group/club with many questioning the reasoning and to me it made sense. We all are wired the same seeking relationships with others from birth to death. Connection, acceptance, admiration. As we get older/mature we can add self awareness, attraction, emotions, physical contact. As we age we experience, explore emotions/desires and form what defines us in all these areas. With experience we define a finer definition of who we are our desires emotional conditions, beliefs, acceptance and hard line no’s. Those in ENM, LS, KINK etc (any lifestyle, relationship, love preference) have much broader definitions of them selves. Love/devotion does not equal sex……sex does not equal love/devotion. We have been with couple/single that have few don’ts but kissing is one of them. We have played with many that are all about sex play, open, willing, full oral, swallow, even (with consent and test) raw/unprotected sex/fluid share……..but no kissing not even a granny kiss. This is where it makes sense to me. Our first acts of love as children through our teen years; holding hands, hugging and as a first thoroughly intimate, kissing. Kissing is the act the very definition of emotion/love/devotion expression. It defines our relationships emotionally and physically. So many define love/emotional connection by a kiss. We have also met those who have a list where their idea is something else. Oral, anal, solo/single, fluid etc etc. But kissing equals emotional connection to many.

The first year we started in the lifestyle, Daniela hotwifed separately with two exes (a comfortable situation for all involved), which led to MFM with me, then we swapped with another couple. If you're counting repeat events, there were well over twenty-one. My wife is a horny bitch.

After meeting many who were new to the LS it was always interesting to who had the idea to meet us. Was it the woman looking for something new or a man pushing? I always tried to determine if they decided together with no agenda other than having fun together trying new things. A man pushing the woman into this was a big no. A woman ridiculing the man was just as bad. I learned the word Cuckold and would never demean a man by making him watch us with his partner. The optimum meet was with a woman who wanted to explore and her partner who would enjoy sharing the experience. We found too many couples have a dominant partner who tries to control instead of share the experience. Are you equal in the LS with your partner and are the people you meet equal?

Mary and I had a kissing rule - we'd kiss others as often as possible. For us, it was a way to establish familiarity. When I kissed another woman, the way she kissed me back told me quite a bit about her sexual personality. Was she reserved, or ravenous? Mary told me that she could tell how much a man desired her from the way he kissed. Plus, it's a form of foreplay. If you won't kiss people other than your spouse because you feel it's too 'intimate,' that's fine - for you. For Mary and I, it was an intimate action leading (hopefully) to a lot more intimacy.

You're not gonna score with my wife if you don't kiss her first 😘

Sex without kissing is silly. Somewhere someone came up with this rule that for me is crazy, it makes sex mechanical instead of sensual. We don’t have rules when it comes to enjoying others, others might have. We have met many new to swinging that have come to learn about or experience the joy of others and then worry about kissing.

Billygoat, very interesting last line in your post re: kissing=emotional connection. So given this, is that the no kissing rule is simply an avoidance of any emotional connection? Very interesting this, as for us, kissing is the act that signals to everyone involved that this "engagement" is not of the ordinary, and that this act of kissing is a validation of that.

Partners in any adventure need to have this attitude.

The way I remember it, we moved pretty slowly. Our first experience was soft swap with two other couples, then full swap with the couple we knew well the following evening. That was really where her comfort zone was, familiarity, and we met up with them a few times before we branched out, I want to say a summer or two later. That was the first time Mrs. E got the nerve up to engage with a flirty stranger on vacation.

The ability to kiss is one of the reasons I prefer missionary over doggy. And although you can kiss during cowgirl, it's somehow not the same. (If I'm going to bend over during cowgirl, it's usually so he can put his mouth on my tits.)

Year two almost double that. Then we hosted a twice per month semi private party, Coffee Time. 10 am to 2pm Sundays. Later came events and themes. It became quite easy to have 2 - 6 sexual experiences per week.

Never have understood the no kissing rule. Doing everything except kiss? I know all the reasons why I just don't get it.

I think you’re an idiot if you don’t send your ex a copy of this entire thread! Then he’s an idiot for not seeing what he’s letting go. I also think you’re both idiots if you don’t fix your relationship. Everyone makes mistakes………not everyone learns from them, you clearly have. I sincerely hope you two find a way, remember it can be a long path back. Don’t give up

I agree with all those above who say that if you won't actually enjoy and be happy that your wife, the love of your life, is enjoying great sex with other men, you are not ready.

I think you know the answer. But, if you don't... She has been lying to you for a long, long time. In fact, it appears she's been lying to you from the beginning. She's been stabbing you in the back, and hard, all along. Maybe she does love you. So what? 30 years from now, are you going to be happy with the idea you stayed with a woman who is a chronic liar just because she is great in bed, makes dinner for you, and cleans for you? From my chair, this woman has absolutely no respect for you at all. You are a doormat, and a willing one at that...and all the more reason why she would disrespect you. Your marriage is on the rocks. It's not just slipping near a rocky shore, with only a minor course correction needed. Your marriage is _hard_ on the rocks. Swinging is based in honesty, openness, trust, communication, and love. You might have the latter of those, but none of the others. Swinging isn't something you do to fix your marriage. I guarantee you that introducing swinging into this marriage will do nothing but cause more harm. As is said here many times, swinging magnifies what it finds. In your case, what it will find is a deeply troubled marriage that needs serious help. This will only be magnified, and the problems will be worse. This idea that you can't look at her laptop or phone is just childish. Absolutely childish. No spouse should ever feel they are in a position where if they look at their spouse's phone, they are going to be in trouble. My wife has access to everything, as I do with her. It's an afterthought. It wasn't some moment where we agreed to do that. It was just normal. I rarely look at my wife's phone. Sometimes I do because I hear something come in and she's distracted, or occupied. So, I'm doing it to help her. Same goes for her. There's no distrust. Everything is 100% open. We share each other's deepest thoughts, and are deeply intertwined in each other. You have a "us vs. them" marriage, with clearly divided camps. Your marriage is failing. Swinging won't fix it. Get help. I'm not saying this to insult you in any respect. I'm saying it to help you. Your marriage needs help. Get it.